There are people in my life who seem to EXPLODE in anger. One seemed to have passed through this phase the sicker they got, but it took well over 15 years before the rage vanished.

The other seems to slip in and out of these angry phases, but it seems to be close to the surface at all times. Any kind of disagreement can end up in frightening rage. This has been going on for about 15 years.

I hardly have them anymore, but for me they are associated with incredible amounts of fraustration. For my Dad is was fraustration and control. When I am tired it is easier to lose it. And when I was on that nasty Flagyl and having neuro symptoms increase they seemed to be worse.

While driving is my main time now. So, I just make sure I am not in a hurry. I have seen some of the worse driving since I moved to Arizona. It is either snow birds or young women with cell phones sticking out of there ears. But I try to laugh at it instead of getting angry. The young women with cell phones make me the angriest, especially if they have young children in the car.

Anyway, it is difficult to control. I have spent a lot of time trying to explain to my husband that it is not personal. He finally gets it but it took a while.

I have seen some medicines suggested for rage, but right now I don't remember what they are. I think Neurontin may be one of them.

Best,
Karen

In the car on the way, about 2&1/2 hours into it we were taking turns going to the bathroom at a fast food restaurant. She got so ugly about not wanting to go in to the bathroom.

She started going bananas. Of course, she needed to go (she mentioned it) or we would not have been insisting she go.

I had to take her screaming and jerking around, acting like that into the bathroom, everyone glaring at us.

I get lots of mean and bewildered glares from people thinking I am hurting my daughter, I am sure.

Anyway, I just hope we can get through this whole disease without getting thrown into jail for suspected child abuse.

Did anyone watch the news special last night about the boy that strangled the younger boy? Dan Rather did the interviewing.

He said he was just so mad he needed to hurt someone else.

It kind of makes you wonder if he could have had lyme disease, after what Cave76 just said about wanting to hurt someone.

Do you think that it could elicit that strong of a response? My husband says it is not safe to leave our daughter alone with the other kids.

Also, anyone notice a definite cycle with outbursts, such as every so many days. My daughter seems to get upset every 7 days consistently.

I was wondering if it has to do with the life cycle of the spirochetes? Anyone know?

suspect has undiagnosed Lyme, a 24 year old daughter who has had it, since I suppose she

was 11 and a 3 year old granddaughter that was born with it. Thank GOD it missed me (I

think) or who would take care of them and do the research I have done? My X used to go

into a rage everytime someone disageed with him, no matter the subject. This infact,

had a big impact on the demise of our marriage. Two times I can remember over the

years he had his hands around our then teenaged daughter's neck! Then afterwards

tried to play it down like it was no big deal. One time he tried to choke her

because (she was 21) she wouldn't feed her new born baby when he said to. This was

towards the end of our relationship with him. I say we, because, my daughter, her

husband and myself refuse to be around him because he scares us. It is sad as my

Daughter is his only child, and she refuses to speak to him because of all the outbursts

he has had over the past several years. Everything is ALWAYS someone else's fault

too. I think it is more fear than anything, but she says she hates him. His siblings

say he has always had "temper" tantrums but these go beyond tantrums. My daughter

doesn't have "rages" but she sure can get nasty for no apparent reason! She has said

she felt like "hurting" someone before, but has never acted on it. She is mostly just

verbally abusive. Thank God she is a Christian or I think the language could get

really bad! Now the 3 year old, WOW, can she throw a fit. I am not sure which are

from the Lyme and which are from just being spoiled rotten???? It is real hard to

figure that one out. Although she does go through these crying fits sometimes and we

can't figure out what triggered it or she will lay on the floor and just scream. Our

LLMD says she was born with the pain and maybe sometimes she just can't deal with

it. He says not lots is documented about it since how do you find out what is causing a

3 year old or younger to just go off? Any ideas on how to deal with this?

Am interested to read more on this subject from all of you.

ICEY

My thing is controlling my thoughts. I am a Christian and never swear, but in my mind I'm always thinking swear words and hurtful things about nothing.

Before I was diagnosed 1 1/2 years ago with Lyme, I thought I was going nuts. Such awful thoughts I would be totally embarrassed to even admit.

With the medications I take and my wonderful LLMD it is 75 percent better. It's really a terrible thing when your mind is not under your control. It's like somebody else is talking in my mind with hatred and rage.

I don't have a temper so it really drove me nuts for awhile. Now after every thought I pray and ask God to forgive me because it's surely not me saying those horrid things.

I've never seen this situation talked about on here, but I would love to hear if others have similar situations. I have had several devastating events when I was a child and even a divorce after 31 years of marriage.

Maybe that's where the rage is coming from. I thought I was over both situations, but it could be my inner thoughts bursting thru. Thank you for bringing this up so I could vent and confess it's a very awful feeling to not control your thoughts.

Take care of yourselves Lymies and I am so grateful for each of you that post questions and answers to help us all understand a little more about this wretched disease. God bless you all.

To quote part of the article:

EVAN KELLY, girl, age 3 1/2, California

One day Evan Kelly began having fits of rage, couldn't remember simple things
she once knew, and cried every night from pain in her knees.

Alarmingly, she showed sadistic behavior like trying to strangle her cats, her mother recalls.

Ultimately, a Lyme specialist treated her with azithromycin and ceftibuten
prescribed for Lyme disease with brain involvement.

Within 2 days, results were apparent as she sang her ABCs for the first time in a long while.

Evan Kelly's mother says, "She was back: My baby who had been missing in her own
body for over a year!"

For those of you that haven't read it, the entire article can be found here:
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001428.html

I think it looks like good info. for my daugther's pediatrician that wants to learn more about lyme.

Wow, a three and a half year old wanting to strangle her kitty. Lyme is a powerful, scary thing.

I have already seen great improvement in my own daughter's anger.

She still gets mad, but hey, she has two little brothers and I think that is pretty provoking sometimes. I try to remember that some anger is just normal.

It sure does give us a heck of a time trying to decide how to discipline her. Her oldest brother thinks she gets by with too much.

We try to be careful to note when sickness (like tummy or achiness) precludes her rages and try to give a little grace there, but it looks to her brothers as if she gets by with it.

Any suggestions, anyone on how to balance that?

She "annoyed me because she is in lala land!"

I'm glad she is in Calif and I'm in NJ.

Good thing momma lives miles away, coast to coast. A short 10 hour car ride probably wouldn't be good enough when you feel it coming on.

I have been the momma on the receiving end of that, but I can still empathize with you dear. Take a break from "too cheery momma" for a while.

It has a positive effect on you to feel like you are finally doing something proactive about the disease. It took us 10 months to get to that point! It sounds like you have been through a much longer journey.

Anyway, I wish your family all the best. Please let us all know how things go. I certainly hope the rage gets better in your family.

It is hard whether you are the one out of control or the recipient of the acts of rage.

It can rip you apart. Try to not let it do that and give medicine a chance to fix it! We had to keep reminding ourselves and our kids that God doesn't make mistakes, He put us all together in our little family for a reason.

I do know of a good book on the subject of anger, it is called "The Heart of Anger" by Lou Priolo. He is a christian writer and gives step by step ways of handling anger.

This involves a lot of journaling done by the angry person.

I read it for my middle child (that doesn't have lyme), a while ago, but now that you have brought this up, I would consider having my daughter that has lyme use it.

It is a healthy venting on paper and Lou has people ask themselves questions regarding their anger. I can see that some may not be able to sit for that, but milder cases maybe could.

If you need more info. or are interested about where you can get the book, please email me directly and I will be happy help.

Were you once a member of the fibro board? I am still there, but have moved here mostly now that I know what I have.

I loved your posts, always so informative(if this is you) lol.

Your question about your thoughts not being under your own control reminds me of a very painful memory from the early 90's.

This was long before I ever thought about Lyme or knew anything was wrong with me.

I had an incident where unbidden thoughts just kept going over and over in my head to do a terrible thing to my precious little bird (named Squeegee).

You have to understand that she's the light of my life and like a child to me. To have these horrible thoughts was just devastating to me and I couldn't understand why they were going endlessly through my head.

It took a great internal struggle not to act on them because they were so insistent. I could never live with myself if I had carried out the thoughts going through my head.

I just stood riveted to the spot with this beautiful rose breasted cockatoo sitting trustingly on my hand and wondered how I could think such evil things.

It made me feel really bad about myself and I have never told anyone about this before (not even my LLMD). I won't even discuss the specifics of it but at least now I know what the cause was.

And now that I know about Lyme rage, I try to control my words when I feel myself getting angry. I try to let it pass and realize that it's probably irrational anger and whatever I'm thinking is probably better left unsaid.

I'm very ashamed to admit that I've felt the urge to kick her, after she'd peed inside when I just went out to get my mail. I had a very bad day and cleaning the floor was just too much for me. I was angry while mopping the floor, and then she bumped something off the table and juice spilled all over our dvd player... ARGH!! Ofcourse I didn't kick her, I kicked a wall or a bag lying around or something, but it scared me a lot. The dog knew I was very upset and it made me cry to see her scared, although I only yelled at her for a bit and didn't go near her. I also recall not seeing well for a moment, like I had closed my eyes but I didn't. I've also had thoughts, more like visions involving hurting animals in general (seeing a rabbit or something, not one particular one but just "a rabbit"). They make me cry, I can't even see an animal get hurt in a cartoon. I've only killed 2 or 3 animals in my life and that was because they were run over by a car and I thought they should be put out of their misery instead of suffer for another half hour and then die. I really don't know why I think those things, though with these I don't have to restrain myself from doing what the thoughts say, it just pops into my head and I go 'uh, NO' and then a bit later it happens again and so on.

Too little also leads to an increased appetite for carbohydrates (starchy foods) and trouble sleeping, which are also associated with depression and other emotional disorders.
http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/genpsyneurotransmitters.html

Serotonin converts to melatonin...now go to my post about the Western Fence Lizard to see why the body wants more melatonin. Looks to me like the body is trying hard to find a protective path...one of several.

Very likely serotonin goes up in lyme disease at first...in order to make melatonin. But...this isn't good, (dopamine is supposed to counter), so serotonin anti-bodies may rise as they do in other ``diseases''.

I think you are talking about me. I am sure that I know you by another name. I hope you are doing well.

I again can relate to many more of those who have added comments. I wonder also if alcohol might play a role in the rage. Both of these people in my life abuse alcohol, although they are not related. AB came about the time that the rage came.

I don't know if we could possibly be talking Lyme Rage, or am I grasping at straws when it's really alcohol, or it could be both.

Panic attacks may reveal previously unsuspected chronic disseminated
lyme disease.

Sherr VT.

The author describes the histories of three patients with panic-like
episodes that turned out to be related to underlying, previously
unsuspected tick-borne diseases. Each woman experienced symptoms that
are not usual in panic disorder but are typical of neurological Lyme
disease, including exquisite sensitivity to light, touch, and sounds,
joint pain often in combination with cognitive changes including mental
fogginess and loss of recent memory, and some degree of bizarre,
shifting, and often excruciating neurological pain. Because these
symptoms are atypical of primary panic disorder, they were very helpful
in alerting the clinician to suspect an underlying physical illness. In
each case, the results of testing revealed positive hallmarks of
disseminated Lyme and other tick-borne diseases, including Lyme
borreliosis caused by the spirochete, Borrelia burgdorferi, babesiosis,
and ehrlichiosis. Since beginning treatment with intensive doses of
appropriate antimicrobial medications for their tick-borne infections,
all three patients have become free of panic attacks. Treatment of
their infections by a specialist in Lyme disease allowed one of the
women to discontinue anti-anxiety medication completely and another to
reduce the dose of medication to occasional use only. The third patient
is no longer anxious but her depression is resolving more slowly
despite the ongoing use of an antidepressant. Two of the patients have
also needed ongoing medication for pain and other symptoms of
late-stage, neurological Lyme disease.

They're so incapable of rational thinking when the rage is going on there's no use in trying to reason, but if I don't respond I get ripped for that, too. It's a no-win situation. They just have to burn out. They're definitely worse the more alcohol that's been consumed.

I'm sure that my friends (those I have left) and family would be appalled if they knew what was going on - especially as sick as I've been - but I'm so ashamed I don't want anyone to know. I don't even know how to describe it! No "normal" person could possibly understand what we're talking about here! They'd also deny all of it.

I know that many of the things they rant about other people would go off about too, but, a lot of things start out at a much higher level of angst (anger or whatever) than is really necessary. It makes for a stressful life - I never know what's going to happen from one day to the next.

I was relieved to learn about others having "bad" thoughts. I had that going on for awhile and was thinking I really was going off the deep end. Thank goodness it's not happening now but when it was going on I couldn't imagine how I'd had all that horrible stuff in me all this time and hadn't known it! Yikes! They stopped at some point - I didn't notice when they started or stopped. It's funny, I'd almost forgotten having them.

I too know the feeling of not wanting to admit or tell anyone what your mind is thinking because of the lack of control and embarrassment. My LLMD has been wonderful and so encouraging since I was diagnosed in March 2004.

I have found in my experience that when I'm taking the right meds and have the Lyme symptoms leveled out that my thinking is clearer and the rage is better.

Of course we all know how complicated Lyme is. Every time I seem to get it under control it flares back up and here we go again.

But I can honestly say you HAVE to keep a positive, strong-willed, never give up attitude or Lyme can certainly destroy your life and your family.

I'm so grateful that more doctors are realizing because of the rise of Lyme cases in the U.S.A. that something has to be done. The more we talk about it, share together, learn about it, and encourage each other we have a great chance to live a good productive and happy life.

Thank you all so much for sharing your most private thoughts and experiences with me. It sure helps to know you have people walking beside you thru this journey of Lyme. I am determined to stay positive and believe in my heart that one day we will find an answer and a cure to this disease.

God bless you all and keep the faith.

I've never had anything like this before. Scared, I told my llmd about it and talked about switching to another abx.

Like Marnie said, increasing my serotonin via amino acids has made all the difference.

I'm still on the bicillin and making progress.

Please seek help if you're having a hard time. Talk to lyme literate friends, your llmd, come to this board. Make sure you get lots of support from as many trusting sources as you can.

I've never had anything like this before. Scared, I told my llmd about it and talked about switching to another abx.

Like Marnie said, increasing my serotonin via amino acids has made all the difference.

I'm still on the bicillin and making progress.

Please seek help if you're having a hard time. Talk to lyme literate friends, your llmd, come to this board. Make sure you get lots of support from as many trusting sources as you can.

Nope, you certainly aren't alone.
I get the unwanted/disturbing thoughts thing too. It is very upsetting and unsettling.
Especially the loss of control...of your own
mind.

I categorize this as OCD (Obsessive Cumpulsive Disorder), which is a well known lyme symptom.

My family doctor (not an LLMD) got me started on Prozac and it truly was a life saver. It changed my whole perspective about what antidepressants and people who take them are.

I'm so thankful to say it's moderate now and I at least have some control over most of my thought processes. To understand a little about Lyme sure makes sense to those of us going thru or been thru similar situations.

I thank God every day for this web site and all you great people that open yourselves up with sincere honesty about your symptoms and personal experiences of Lyme. You are all always in my prayers.