Probably at every visit i would ask if i could get more of that Bicillin, but he never obliged me, even after the recommendation from my Neurologist to cut back on Rocephin and increase Bicillin - still didn't get more of it!

Does anyone have any idea if Bicillin just isn't used as frequently as Rocephin, or if maybe it's known not to be as effective, contrary to my personal experience?

Has anyone else shown improvement without using heavy doses of Rocephin IM?

I love Bicillin LA and the noticeable improvements I experience! Rocephin hasn't done much for me, except make me weaker than ever!

I just could never get why Rocephin seems to be the most widely used, specifically for chronic neuro lyme, or maybe my experience is just different than the majority of people that have great results on Rocephin.

So my questions is: What's the opinion here- Can Bicillin be as effective as Rocephin?

All I can tell you is that I was on LA Bicillin for 3 weeks before my friend convince me to go to Reno for some alternative medicine treatment (big mistake).

When I was on the LA Bicillin I was herxing like ever and can't wait to get back on it. I personally have neuro symptoms, but have never tried Rocephin. I see my first LLMD next week.

I went from IV Rocephin to IM Bicillin and did notice more improvement and less feeling just plain yucky from meds. The Bicillin doesn't "hit me" until about 30 hours after the injections, which suggests how long it takes for the med to be absorbed. The Rocephin knocked me flat while I was infusing on ocassion - goes right into the bloodstream.

As for the 1x per month, well that is something some of the Lyme MDs are actually trying with a few patients. I am being pulsed Bicillin right now. The idea is to let the buggers come out and play and then hit them with a steam roller (Bicillin) after a couple of weeks. The theory is that more spirochetes are coming out of hiding and being killed. Who knows if it works. My MD and I are hopeful.

My only concern for you is that you are on both Rocephin and Bicillin at the same time. To be honest, I have not heard of using that combination. Hope it works for you.

I would suggest you keep a daily journal of how you feel so that you and your Dr. can chart the pattern that you are experiencing. This has been very helpful for me and my Dr. to understand which meds I respond best to. I translated my journals into a color chart of percentage of good vs. bad days to better illustrate the patterns. My Dr. finds this graphic to be very helpful.

Good luck.

I was on the marshall protocol for almost six months, and had deteriorated during that time. I stopped medications to see if my baseline had improved, best I could tell it had not, so it was time to move on. I mention this only because I wonder a bit if the mp was, actually, doing something for me which may have set me up for a quick response to Bicillin, though I was off all meds for about 5 weeks between protocols.

My LLNP recommended IM Bicillin L-A one injection per week, Artemisinin 100mg tid (it has been shown to be an effective cyst-buster), and two weeks ago, we added BiaxinXL 500mg bid (to go after CWD).

And I feel the best that I have felt in at least three years. I am realistic and know that I still have a long, bumpy road ahead of me, but, for the first time, I am optimistic about my prospects for the future.

I have once again begun to make plans to meet friends for dinner. I enjoy doing errands instead of (mostly) dragging myself to get through them. I have returned to Curves after 15 months.

I was told that Bicillin has a very long half life and takes about a week to be completely abosrbed into the body. (L-A stands for "long acting".)

I inject on Mondays. My pattern has been to slowly improve throughout the week. My best day is Friday. I slide back on Saturday, and further on Sunday, and begin anew with the next injection.

I have been told that it can take up to nine months to see benefits from Bicillin, but that they do come. Obviously, I am seeing benefits pretty quickly, but this makes me expect even more benefits down the road as I was told it can take several months to build up the level of med in your body.

Just what role Artemisinin and BiaxinXL are playing in this, I have no idea.

I have been told by other board members that a number of people who had been previously posting about their experiences with Bicillin are no longer posting here because they have their lives back. My LLNP also told me that a number of the LLMD's are having success with Bicillin, and that it has proven to be almost as effective as IV Rocephin without the hassle and inherent risks of IV administration.

I've also heard that IM Rocephin isn't nearly as effective as IV Rocephin, but please ask your doctor about that. I don't remember the source and so cannot comment on the level of credibility.

I have never taken Rocephin, in any form, so I am sorry that I cannot make a comparison for you. I have been told that the Rocephin injections are far more painful than Bicillin. For me the only pain from injection Bicillin is the poke through the skin, and that is minimal.

There have been several threads on Bicillin in the past several weeks. I know the search engine can be tedious, and have read that sometimes it does not work at all, but you may want to try a search to see if you can find them. You can also just peruse through each page of posts and look for "Bicillin" in the subject line.

Suzanne

My LLNP recommended IM Bicillin L-A one injection per week, Artemisinin 100mg tid (it has been shown to be an effective cyst-buster), and two weeks ago, we added BiaxinXL 500mg bid (to go after CWD).

That caught my eye, big time, cause I started IM Bicillin a week ago.

I get 2 injections per week (Tues & Fri) of 1.2 million units, plus ketek, 800 mg/day and I take artemisinin, 100 mg tid and nystatin. I have hope. Proit to this I have been on orals for 7-8 months, and Babesia tx.

But what I really would like to know more about is artemisinin and cyst busting, if you please.

While I was in her office, she called Dr. S in SFO who said that his experience has been that weekly is sufficient. He said that the MIC stays high enough, long enough, and anything more than that is overkill/waste.

I would be interested to know why you say minimum 2x/week is needed. Do you have any supporting information that I could show my LLNP?

Someone asked about the cyst-busting properties of Artemisinin. Sorry, I don't know any more than what I've said.

Me neither, I begged my old LLMD for 8 months to pick up on the bicillin, given my improvement experienced within hours - every time!

In the beginning i didn't know much about lyme tx, or coinfections, so i assumed he knew what was best for me. But as time went on, the more i learned, the less i understood why he never listened to my feedback or even asked.

It seems he had only one tx protocol on his mind and wouldn't deviate from it at all, regardless of my personal experiences, good or bad.

So, to answer your question - Why only once a month? I have no idea. My tx was never adjusted since the very beginning. It seemed to not matter which abx made me feel better.

I thank GOD everyday he is no longer my LLMD. It will be so nice to have questions and concerns addressed, and finally have a LLMD that will listen to me and my body's feedback.

One thing i know for sure about tx is one size doesn't fit all; it's just unfortunate I was never allowed the chance to go with the abx that fit me.

Is Artemisinin a rx, or can i get it anywhere? I also never had my questions answered, or even any tx for possible cysts? How would I know if I need this type of abx?

My LLNP told me that it has been shown to have cyst-busting properties, and that is why it is part of my protocol, along with BiaxinXL.

We are on a similar protocol with the same LLNP, but a month or two ahead of you.

The Artemisinin has until very recently been assumed not to be useful against Lyme. Recently it was noticed that IF TAKEN WITH A PENICILLIN of some kind, it is very effective not only against the cysts, but on mature spirochetes as well. I don't think very many people are aware of that synergistic effect yet.

We at first were on a dose similar to yours, but using just a small amount of amoxicillin instead of Bicillin LA. We felt so good that we took a week's vacation and hiked in the Grand Canyon and two other nearby National Parks. Brain fog is GONE and has not returned.

We had been monitoring progress by looking at our blood with a darkfield microscope, and although we felt good we still saw lots of unwelcome critters in it. So, she let us crank up the dose much higher for a month to see what else we could clean up.

The higher dose did indeed knock the Lyme down alot, though it is still there. We didn't feel as good though on the higher doses... we were much more 'medicated' feeling. Then some symptoms started coming back... but kind of different ones than before.

What appears to have happened is that with the Lyme beaten down, in its place is a now raging Bartonella co-infection. They say nature abhors a vacuum! So now we deal with that one.

What you are doing is very good in my opinion. We maybe took the Lyme down a little too fast for our own good.

So... If you feel really good for awhile, but then feel like you are backsliding... it may instead be a co-infection like Bartonella asserting itself. Don't get discouraged, it just means you are ready for the next step.

By the way you would be welcome to come and look through our microscopes at what is going on if you are ever down this way. (San Antonio) At least you will have seen the enemy!

Rocephin IM is PAINFUL PAINFUL!! I have been giving 6 to my daughter so far she gets them every 3 days. LLMD just now called and wants her off of them and the Mepron due to the horrible pressure in her head and has ordered an MRI. I would much rather give her a shot of something that isn't so painful as the Rocephin. We will see what he decides next. She has been off and on the Mepron before. I am sure this is just a wait and see move on his part until she gets the MRI.

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ICEY

How much Art are you taking? Are you pulsing it, or taking it continuously?

What makes you think that Bart is the pathogen that is out of control now, and not something else like mycoplasmas? I thought that Art would be effective against Bart also?

Thank you. I did not realize that this effect was a synergy with a penicillin. Can you provide a medical reference for this?

>> So... If you feel really good for awhile, but then feel like you are backsliding... it may instead be a co-infection like Bartonella asserting itself. Don't get discouraged, it just means you are ready for the next step.

What do you mean by "the next step"?

>> By the way you would be welcome to come and look through our microscopes at what is going on if you are ever down this way. (San Antonio) At least you will have seen the enemy!

quote:

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Originally posted by Ticktoxic:
James,

How much Art are you taking? Are you pulsing it, or taking it continuously?

What makes you think that Bart is the pathogen that is out of control now, and not something else like mycoplasmas? I thought that Art would be effective against Bart also?

Professor Nicolson at IMMED says that penicillans make mycoplasmas worse. I don't think that this is true when a macroloid or doxy/mino are used with them.

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We started slow, with 2 amoxicillin and 2 artemisinin once a day in the afternoon for a few weeks. The dieoffs can be rough for awhile.

Artemisinin absorbtion is kind of variable and decreases after awhile, so it is hard to know how much of what you take is actually available. That said, I have taken as many as 12 a day with no bad effect and no abnormal labs. Your mileage may vary!

People trying to treat cancer with Artemisinin have taken absurd doses for extended periods with few bad effects. In one case a dose equivelant to 200 capsules a day for a 170lb person was reported to be 'safe' for 'short term use'. I think someone dying of cancer has a little different concept of acceptable risk than we do... I certainly would not do that! Still, it puts what is a 'high dose' of Artemisinin in a little different perspective. Probably most of the excess artemisinin just ends up in the toilet in an extreme example like that.

Mycoplasma is a very good possibility. I wish somebody knew for sure what this is. Few of our Doctors have recent microbiology experience, so they can't necessarily look at a picture and say with conviction 'this looks like Bartonella" or 'this looks like a mycoplasma.

Bartonella would look and move like this, so was it was an educated guess.

You may be right, though. I found this interesting information on Mycoplasmas in general this morning...
http://gsbs.utmb.edu/microbook/ch037.htm

You will not find any medical references yet. It is something that was NOTICED just very recently.

By 'the next step', I just meant that it might be time to give a co-infection some attention if some symptoms start coming back. I think you are in good hands.