They just faxed me the test results however and it says negative on both the IGG and the IGM.

Here's the results:

Lyme IGG Western Blot Negative

18 kDa -
22 kDa -
23-25 kDa IND
28 kDa -
30 kDa IND
31 kDa -
34 kDa -
37 kDa -
39 kDa IND
41 kDa IND
45 kDa -
58 kDa IND
66 kDa +
73 kDa -
83 kDa -
93 kDa -

Lyme IgM Western Blot Negative

18 kDa -
22 kDa -
23-24 kDa -
28 kDa -
30 kDa IND
31 kDa -
34 kDa -
37 kDa -
39 kDa -
41 kDa IND
45 kDa IND
58 kDa IND
66 kDa IND
73 kDa -
83 kDa -
93 kDa -

And the muddy the waters even more, the Quest blood test was positive for babesia, but negative for bartonella and ehrlichia, but the MDL report has his positive for bartonella and negative for babesia and ehrlichia.

What are we supposed to understand from any of this? My husband feels awful, but all these stupid tests seem to contradict each other . . . other than to indicate that he does NOT have lyme!

It is all just so random. The IND used to be equivicol. It shows something but not quite a low.

I know it is hard, confusing and stressful. But the testing is just a part of the puzzle. If these were your first tests then it can be disheartening. It is such a weird disease, we find ourselves hoping for positive tests. For insurance, for our own sanity and for proof.

It just seems so bizarre to have such different test results.

Now I gotta wonder . . . does he have babesia?
(Quest labs says yes - MDL - no) or does he have baronella (Quest says no - MDL - yes)
I guess he doesn't have ehrlichia since that came out negative on all the labs

He doesn't go back to the LLMD until August 8th and I hate that we have to wait that long to find out what the doctor's gonna do about it.

When we were there for the first appt., I asked him what IF all the lab tests came back negative (I was afraid they would) and he said he still would belive that my husband has lyme and he would still treat him.

Perhaps this person is seronegative for one reason or another. Perhaps the person actually doesn't have Lyme. That's a possibility too. Not everyone has Lyme. Not everything is Lyme.

Maybe the person has other tbds and not Lyme. That can happen too.

The value of Lyme testing is highly questionable and I don't know that positive or negative tests really mean much at all one way or another.

Clinical diagnosis, empiric treatment. Or treat the babesia and see what happens.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jellybelly:
Don't cry. Many of us come back with absolutely negative Western Blots that turn positive after treatment has begun many times. The test results you have put up have a lot of INDs, which is NOT negative.

I bumped up a post I made last week on "Understanding your Western Blot". It should be just below. There is information on how to view an IND. Lots of really good information. A negative result does not have to mean to don't have Lyme.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Danser:
I asked him what IF all the lab tests came back negative (I was afraid they would) and he said he still would belive that my husband has lyme and he would still treat him.

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Here I go again. I lost the first lengthy explanation! Ah, well!

YES! Your dr [LLMD?] is right...Lyme is a clinical diagnosis, meaning that if your husband got a tick bite, and is feeling ill, then treatment would be a very good idea. [to say the least]

Yes, the IND means "equivocal"...or "something showed up, but it was very weak."

You only need ONE Lyme specific band to show up to mean that you have Lyme. Your husband has several....when you count the IND's [and well you should].

Bands 23-25 are classic hallmark borreliosis antibodies
Band 39 is the MOST SPECIFIC antibody for borreliosis of all
Band 41 is the most common borreliosis antibody
Band 66 is the second most common borrelia antibody

If a positive test result is very important to you, then your husband can be treated for a month, and then retake the test. It will likely show positive then. [no guarantee]

I'm closing this out so I don't lose it again...back for part 2!

------------------
Do not take anything I say as medical advice. I am not a doctor, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express!
oops!
Lymetutu

I would also take the positives you have on the coinfections to be just that! POSITIVES! I personally don't believe in false positives.

So....be sure his doctor treats him for the coinfections. He can't get well without that treatment...and untreated babs means the lyme will continue to hang around.

Read Dr C of MO's explanation of the Western Blot. He explains about the "equivocals" or IND's in laymen's terms. [thank goodness!]

Western Blot explanation: http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/022767.html

Here is what has been written about IND which used to be Equivicol or +/-.

My husband's symptoms MOST closely fit a lyme diagnosis. It's kind of ironic that his positive test results are for the co-infections. When we've looked at the symptoms for those, it doesn't seem to fit as well.

His most pronounced symptoms are fatigue, extreme pain in his muscles and joints (and it's migratory), brain fog, non-restorative sleep, tingling, numbness in extremeties, twitching and low hormonal titers.

My sister found notes that she wrote to herself 15 years ago when this all began for her, my husband and my son. In it she wrote that my husband was being treated for fifth's disease with 10 days of antibiotics.

This indicates that my memory of a rash was correct . . . though it obviously didn't look like a lyme rash to the doctors at the time.

quote:

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Originally posted by Martijn:

the testresult is: NEGATIVE on both IgG and IgM, because the criteria of 2 positive specific bands was not met. Not even 1 specific band was positive.

You can't make more of this.

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GET REAL! So are you suggesting that Danser's husband NOT get treated for Lyme?

Not one single diagnosis that my husband has received has really "fit" him.

His fibromyalgic pain wasn't really in the pressure points (but the doctors wanted to say that's what he had)

The numbness and tingling was said to be from his low B12, but it wasn't low enough to show up outside the normal range on a blood test.

The tests for arthritis only showed "unspecified inflammation"

The sleep tests all came back with no indication of a sleep disorder.

His testosterone levels were regulated but it didn't help his symptoms at all.

The LLMD absolutely FILLED his page of notes with symptoms that my husband has that match lyme symptoms.

I'm only looking for test results as a means of dealing with our insurance company should the time come when we need to go to IV antibiotics.

But perhaps the test results will change after he's been on antibiotics for a while.

If your husband's DHEA (a hormone) is very low like many people that are ill with Lyme, this could be the reason for the results. DHEA is responsible for making antibodies, and if you're not amking them, then how are they supposed to show up in an antibody test????????

quote:

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Originally posted by Lymetoo:
YES! Your dr [LLMD?] is right...Lyme is a clinical diagnosis, meaning that if your husband got a tick bite, and is feeling ill, then treatment would be a very good idea. [to say the least]

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For Martijn....just a reminder that Lyme is a clinical diagnosis. I never said the test should be what the LLMD should make his dx on.