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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » My IGeneX test results

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Author Topic: My IGeneX test results
aiden424
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 7633

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I thought it odd that my IgM was more positive then my IgG. Is that normal for someone who's had it for 19 years before being diagnosed?
IGM
18 IND
22 -
23-25 -
28 -
30 +
31 ++++
34 IND
37 -
39 IND
41 +++
45 +
58 +
66 IND
73 -
83 -
93 IND

IgG
18 -
22 -
23-25 -
28 -
30 IND
31 ++
34 Ind
37 -
39 IND
41 ++
45 IND
58 IND
66 +
73 -
83 -
93 -


Posts: 807 | From South Dakota | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tabbytamer
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3159

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I'm not the best one to explain this, but from my understanding, because of the way the Lyme bacteria reproduces regularly throughout the infection, IgM levels will also peak throughout the infection.

According to Dr. Burrascano's treatment guidelines (2002):

"be aware that in late disease there may be repeatedly peaking IgM's and therefore a reactive IgM may not differentiate early from late disease, but it does suggest an active infection."
http://www.ilads.org/burrascano_1102.html#diag

Hope someone else comes along that can explain this better.

------------------
Tabby


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mbroderick
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Member # 5220

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This has been posted before, but perhaps has some information that will be helpful...

Dr. Charles Jones' Approach to Reading Western Blots:
The Western Blot measures the antibodies your body makes to attack the Lyme infection. Also, it is important to note that like most progressive Lyme experts, Dr. Jones assumes you have a Western Blot from IgeneX, which is an internationally famous, tick-only lab, with full lab certification. Other massive cheap national labs process hundreds of types of tests, and millions of patients. They rarely find a positive result even in epidemic counties, in people who have profound and advanced Lyme clinical symptoms. However, if you have had a Western Blot done at a junk lab, please still glance at the result. Why? Because you may find, as I did with one relative, that one of the antibodies or "bands" was positive. In this relative, the band was a "fingerprint" band. Meaning, Lyme is the only organism that makes the human body make this antibody. The child was positive. Simply, if you are blindfolded and touch the side of an elephant, you may not be sure it is an elephant�perhaps this is a rhino? This is the 41 band. It is from the flagella, or huge stringy rod that projects from it. Very crudely, the flagellum looks a dash like a sperm tail on the Lyme organism and is most often positive. However, the 41 antibody is not specific to Lyme, since many organisms have flagella. Now, what if you touch this same elephant on its tusks or on its long peanut-eating tubular nose? You know it is an elephant. Period. One touch and you are certain, because these parts are very unique to this huge animal. This is Dr. Jones' point. It you see an 18 antibody that has a positive, you have Lyme. You do not need to check any other bands, because the 18 antibody is highly specific to Lyme�just like a tusk on an elephant.
What Do the Number of Pluses Mean? IgeneX gives levels of antibodies. One + means you have some antibody of that type, and +++ means you have a very large amount of antibody of that type. However, Lyme ruins immune system functioning and the number of positives usually goes up with treatment. People with no aggressive past Lyme treatment, should be lucky their body has made any antibodies at all, since Lyme is very good at both hiding from the immune system and hindering it. Also, many people have +/- findings on an antibody. This means the lab tech is seeing something, but is not ready to call it a clear positive. In my experience, many of these patients also show high Epstein Barr labs, which means this common infection is not in check and the immune system is very weak. And after we treat the patient, the +/- usually becomes a clear + or even a ++--which means you now have new and clear antibodies against this part of the Lyme bug.
Currently, IgeneX does not use Dr. Jones' criteria. I have not asked them why. Perhaps because they are accountable to different laboratory regulating agencies, and in general the government is anti-progressive Lyme. They are years behind clinical medicine and following a few Ivy Tower types. Many government agencies are attacking Lyme experts like the FDA and especially state medical boards. These lawyer run groups are attacking the best Lyme doctors in the USA. Generally, after the board takes out some of the best Lyme doctors in their state, patients counter attack the state boards and get laws passed to stop this 1984 Big Brother harassment. But these doctors are gone.
Further, this scares thousands of doctors into avoiding treating Lyme aggressively or makes simple thinking doctors feel these progressive doctors must have been wrong. Some physicians are simple in the politics of power. We have seen the same state board abuse against physicians willing to take on a few desperately suffering chronic pain patients, e.g., the type with rotting joints who are inoperable and need rising doses of narcotics to work fulltime and keep from crying from pain. For example, Pennsylvania and New York are two of the leading anti-pain, anti-Lyme treatment and anti-doctor states in the USA.
Addendum Regarding Lyme Serology: There are nine known [Lyme] Borrelia burgdorferi Genus species specific KDA Western Blot antibodies (bands): 18, 23, 31, 34, 37, 39, 83 and 93. Only one of these Borrelia burgdorferi genus specific bands is needed to confirm that there is serological evidence of exposure to the Borrelia burgdorferi spirochete and can confirm a clinical diagnosis of Lyme Disease. CDC Western Blot IgM surveillance criteria includes only two burgdorferi genus species specific antibodies for IgM 23 and 39 and excludes the other seven Borrelia burgdorferi antibodies.
CDC Western Blot IgG surveillance criteria includes 18, 23, 30, 37, 39 and 93 and excludes bands 31, 34 and 83. It does not make sense to exclude any Borrelia burgdorferi genus species-specific antibodies in a Lyme Western Blot, and to include only two of these antibodies in IgM because all the antibodies in IgG were once IgM. IgM converts to IgG in about two months unless there is a persisting infection driving a persisting IgM reaction. This is the case with any infection including a Borrelia burgdorferi induced Lyme disease. The CDC wrongfully includes five non-specific cross-reacting antibodies in its Western Blot surveillance criteria: 28, 41, 45, 58 and 66. This leads to the possibility of false positive Lyme Western Blots. There can be no false positives if only Borrelia burgdorferi genus species-specific antibodies are considered. One can have a CDC surveillance positive IgG Lyme Western Blot with the five non-specific antibodies without having any Borrelia burgdorferi genus species specific antibodies. This does not make sense.
The CDC recommends that the Lyme Western Blot be performed only if there is a positive or equivocal Lyme ELISA. In my practice of over 6000 children with Lyme disease, 30% with a CDC positive Lyme Western Blot have negative ELISA's. The Lyme ELISA is a poor screening test. An adequate screening test should have false positives, not false negatives.


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cigi
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Member # 6600

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The same thing happened to me. Did you check for co-infections? what antibiotics are you on? maybe the lyme won't clear because you have co-infections that you didn't know you had and that's stopping the lyme from going. I was exposed to ehrlichiosis and bartonella. Wasn't positive till now in the igg for both, though symptoms, never treated.
Just a thought,
Cigi

[This message has been edited by cigi (edited 23 July 2005).]


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aiden424
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This is still new and very confusing to me.
Kathy

quote:
Originally posted by mbroderick:
This has been posted before, but perhaps has some information that will be helpful...

Dr. Charles Jones' Approach to Reading Western Blots:
The Western Blot measures the antibodies your body makes to attack the Lyme infection. Also, it is important to note that like most progressive Lyme experts, Dr. Jones assumes you have a Western Blot from IgeneX, which is an internationally famous, tick-only lab, with full lab certification. Other massive cheap national labs process hundreds of types of tests, and millions of patients. They rarely find a positive result even in epidemic counties, in people who have profound and advanced Lyme clinical symptoms. However, if you have had a Western Blot done at a junk lab, please still glance at the result. Why? Because you may find, as I did with one relative, that one of the antibodies or "bands" was positive. In this relative, the band was a "fingerprint" band. Meaning, Lyme is the only organism that makes the human body make this antibody. The child was positive. Simply, if you are blindfolded and touch the side of an elephant, you may not be sure it is an elephant�perhaps this is a rhino? This is the 41 band. It is from the flagella, or huge stringy rod that projects from it. Very crudely, the flagellum looks a dash like a sperm tail on the Lyme organism and is most often positive. However, the 41 antibody is not specific to Lyme, since many organisms have flagella. Now, what if you touch this same elephant on its tusks or on its long peanut-eating tubular nose? You know it is an elephant. Period. One touch and you are certain, because these parts are very unique to this huge animal. This is Dr. Jones' point. It you see an 18 antibody that has a positive, you have Lyme. You do not need to check any other bands, because the 18 antibody is highly specific to Lyme�just like a tusk on an elephant.
What Do the Number of Pluses Mean? IgeneX gives levels of antibodies. One + means you have some antibody of that type, and +++ means you have a very large amount of antibody of that type. However, Lyme ruins immune system functioning and the number of positives usually goes up with treatment. People with no aggressive past Lyme treatment, should be lucky their body has made any antibodies at all, since Lyme is very good at both hiding from the immune system and hindering it. Also, many people have +/- findings on an antibody. This means the lab tech is seeing something, but is not ready to call it a clear positive. In my experience, many of these patients also show high Epstein Barr labs, which means this common infection is not in check and the immune system is very weak. And after we treat the patient, the +/- usually becomes a clear + or even a ++--which means you now have new and clear antibodies against this part of the Lyme bug.
Currently, IgeneX does not use Dr. Jones' criteria. I have not asked them why. Perhaps because they are accountable to different laboratory regulating agencies, and in general the government is anti-progressive Lyme. They are years behind clinical medicine and following a few Ivy Tower types. Many government agencies are attacking Lyme experts like the FDA and especially state medical boards. These lawyer run groups are attacking the best Lyme doctors in the USA. Generally, after the board takes out some of the best Lyme doctors in their state, patients counter attack the state boards and get laws passed to stop this 1984 Big Brother harassment. But these doctors are gone.
Further, this scares thousands of doctors into avoiding treating Lyme aggressively or makes simple thinking doctors feel these progressive doctors must have been wrong. Some physicians are simple in the politics of power. We have seen the same state board abuse against physicians willing to take on a few desperately suffering chronic pain patients, e.g., the type with rotting joints who are inoperable and need rising doses of narcotics to work fulltime and keep from crying from pain. For example, Pennsylvania and New York are two of the leading anti-pain, anti-Lyme treatment and anti-doctor states in the USA.
Addendum Regarding Lyme Serology: There are nine known [Lyme] Borrelia burgdorferi Genus species specific KDA Western Blot antibodies (bands): 18, 23, 31, 34, 37, 39, 83 and 93. Only one of these Borrelia burgdorferi genus specific bands is needed to confirm that there is serological evidence of exposure to the Borrelia burgdorferi spirochete and can confirm a clinical diagnosis of Lyme Disease. CDC Western Blot IgM surveillance criteria includes only two burgdorferi genus species specific antibodies for IgM 23 and 39 and excludes the other seven Borrelia burgdorferi antibodies.
CDC Western Blot IgG surveillance criteria includes 18, 23, 30, 37, 39 and 93 and excludes bands 31, 34 and 83. It does not make sense to exclude any Borrelia burgdorferi genus species-specific antibodies in a Lyme Western Blot, and to include only two of these antibodies in IgM because all the antibodies in IgG were once IgM. IgM converts to IgG in about two months unless there is a persisting infection driving a persisting IgM reaction. This is the case with any infection including a Borrelia burgdorferi induced Lyme disease. The CDC wrongfully includes five non-specific cross-reacting antibodies in its Western Blot surveillance criteria: 28, 41, 45, 58 and 66. This leads to the possibility of false positive Lyme Western Blots. There can be no false positives if only Borrelia burgdorferi genus species-specific antibodies are considered. One can have a CDC surveillance positive IgG Lyme Western Blot with the five non-specific antibodies without having any Borrelia burgdorferi genus species specific antibodies. This does not make sense.
The CDC recommends that the Lyme Western Blot be performed only if there is a positive or equivocal Lyme ELISA. In my practice of over 6000 children with Lyme disease, 30% with a CDC positive Lyme Western Blot have negative ELISA's. The Lyme ELISA is a poor screening test. An adequate screening test should have false positives, not false negatives.



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