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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » plum island

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Author Topic: plum island
lpkayak
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has this been posted on here? it's been out for 6 months but guess i missed it. too busy taking care of me. i knew about plum island but not in this detail. why does the media ignor this stuff.

http://www.harpercollins.com/authorintro/index.asp?authorid=21432


Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lou
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Apparently there was a little media attention, but it has since vanished without a trace.

Thought it was astonishing that one newspaper account asked the ALDF director for his opinion (negative) instead of some official gov't source, like maybe the ALDF had some inside track on biowarfare. On the other hand, maybe they do, and haven't let the secret out. Some of the current scientific advisors and friends are into biowarfare now.


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lpkayak
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i know. what a mess. it's so hard just taking car of ourselves. how can we possibly fight stuff like this?
Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
I Have Lyme Etc
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Thanks for posting this.. I have heard about Plum island over the yrs but never really understood what it was about.. I read this authors web site last night and from what I can understand is he saying that the government engineered Lyme disease and the others hes talking about? Has anyone read this book yet? What do you think about the validity of what he says? Id like to buy this book but Im interested in what you're opinions are before I bother to waste the money.. Thanks

------------------

"It is not genius, nor glory, nor love that reflects the greatness of the
human soul.....it is kindness..."


Posts: 209 | From South Carolina by the beach | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
millymollymandy
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When I first heard about this and looked at the reviews I thought that it was a piece of fiction and thought to myself well lets hope people take note of this and it doesn't happen for real.
I then read this review; http://mostlyfiction.com/adventure/carroll.htm
and find out that it is REAL. God help us all... from mans stupidity....

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duramater
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can stuff like this go into general rather than medical? wonder where the moderators are...
Posts: 689 | From western MA (we say buttER and pizzA) | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pattiecake
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I was told by a very prominent LLMD that its true. I think it is. Why els would practically a whole town get lyme first and then have it spread like fire.
think about it....everyone always says....
There was no lyme when I was a kid! (if you were a kid in the late 60's and early 70'S)

I lived in the woods and never picked up a deer tick or lyme.
pattiecake


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Troup Brazelton
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So how do you suppose the US Govt. got all of europe to have Lyme for the last 100 years?
Posts: 219 | From Aubur,Al. USA | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lou
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Yes, it probably belongs in general forum instead.

My original take on this was that it was just another wild eyed conspiracy theory. Then I read the book. It isn't well organized and there are loose ends but really he is not claiming anything outrageous at all. Plus, a former gov of NY and former senator of CT have blurbs on the dust jacket. So, if elected officials at high levels have questions about this but didn't speak about it until they got out of office, well, this is certainly worth paying attention to.

The fact that lyme has been found in museum specimens and in europe does not preclude the possibility that Plum Island was somehow involved in the Lyme, CT outbreak, even if unintentional and even if the bacteria were not deliberately engineered.

There is a possibility, it seems to me, that bacteria could have been altered by accident; we know that microbes swap genes frequently in nature. They are also engineered to do this. And the germs that are intentionally engineered are the ones that are already in nature. The engineers are working with existing microbes.

Don't know how any of this could be proved. Certainly the gov't is not going to research it or admit it could have happened. And too many universities are feeding at the federal trough, even getting biowarfare funding, to be independent and able to research it.

Guess for the time being we are stuck with a big MAYBE on this question.


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Andie333
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I'm reading the book now. At this point, I agree with Lou -- it's pretty disorganized (hard for me to follow, especially in my current state).

But if any of his central tenents is true, it's really terrifying.

I have to take the book in small doses. For me, it's too much to absorb.

Andie



Posts: 2549 | From never never land | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymester
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I have made posts prior regarding govt. involvement.

The trolls or others interested in demolishing our knowledge or education of the disease are part of a larger group who need to keep this hidden.

Directly north of the Island are the Groton and NewLondon military sites.

Hmmm


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lpkayak
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sorry i put this here instead of general...but i'm glad more saw it. am i supposed to move it? or delete it? let me know. the book is paperback now...shouldn't be too expensive.
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Yoda
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I heard today on NYC news that they are closing the facility down because it is too old. Hmmmmmmmm
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Andie333
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If you do a google search under news, there are quite a few stories on the current Plum Island debate...


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lou
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Don't think you can move it kayak. Only moderators can do this, I think. Just be good from now on! (Tried to add a winking smiley, but it refused to cooperate.)

Yoda - closing because it is too old??? They already closed the old building that was suspected (in Carroll's book) and a new building was built with supposedly better safety features. So, what is too old? Sounds like they are cutting their losses and hoping the questions will die away.

Here is the text of a Newsday article on this possible closure. Interesting that the pols are only concerned about the loss of $$$, and no mention at all of lyme disease.

__________________________________

Plum Island's future up in the air
Feds set 2011 date to replace Plum Island facility or relocate a higher-level research facility elsewhere

BY BILL BLEYER
STAFF WRITER

August 25, 2005

Saying the 50-year-old Plum Island Animal Disease Center is becoming obsolete, the federal government is beginning to look at whether the lab should be rebuilt on the island or replaced by new facilities elsewhere.

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security announced this week that it plans to replace the existing laboratory off the end of the North Fork with one or more new facilities by the end of 2011. The lab is the only place in the country that studies foreign animal diseases such as foot-and-mouth disease and African swine fever and develops vaccines for them.

"The Plum Island facility was built in the 1950s and is nearing the end of its life cycle," the statement said.

The proposed 2006 federal budget contains $23 million to develop plans for a new National Bio and Agro-defense Facility and to decide where it should be constructed. Department officials have told Congress the facility could cost more than $450 million.

One of the most crucial questions the study will look at is whether the new lab should study more dangerous diseases than Plum Island does now. The new lab might do Bio-safety Level 4 research on the most dangerous pathogens for which there are no antidotes or vaccines, something not done now on the island.

Politicians and community groups reacted with alarm yesterday to the possibility of the lab closing. They said they hoped the government would build a new Level 3 lab on the island, but most reiterated their opposition to a Level 4 lab so close to a population center. Officials and environmental groups have fought for years against any upgrade of the lab to handle BSL-4 research, and Homeland Security has promised that it would not be done on the island. Agency spokesman Donald Tighe said yesterday that "this does nothing to change any prior commitments."

Department officials privately concede this means that if the agency decides it must have a BSL-4 lab, it is unlikely to be on Plum Island. Local officials worry about the economic impact of losing the 200 research and support jobs at the island.

While federal officials have been upgrading the equipment on the island and talked of the need to do something about a building opened a half century ago, the announcement of the study -- made in an e-mail -- caught public officials and community leaders off-guard.

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) and Rep. Tim Bishop (D-Southampton), whose district includes Plum Island, wrote yesterday to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff to ask for a meeting, saying the agency had promised to keep them apprised of any proposed changes to the lab. They said they "agree wholeheartedly that either the promised infrastructure improvements must be made or a new facility must be built." But, they added, "we strongly question the idea of relocating this facility from Plum Island."

Suffolk County Executive Steve Levy called for a meeting of federal and local officials.

After Sept. 11, Plum Island was shifted from the Department of Agriculture to Homeland Security to protect it from possible terrorist attack and shift the emphasis to protecting against an attack on agricultural industry.

Despite ongoing upgrades of equipment, the lab "is becoming increasingly more costly to maintain," the announcement said. "The laboratory and test space in the current facility is insufficient to support the increasing levels of research and development needed to meet the growing concerns about accidental or intentional introduction of foreign animal diseases into this country, and it is not appropriate for zoonotic disease research."

Zoonotic diseases can be transmitted from animals to humans and include anthrax, West Nile virus and spongiform encephalopathy or "mad cow disease." These are not studied on the island now.

The announcement pointed out that a presidential directive issued last year stipulates that "the secretaries of Agriculture and Homeland Security will develop a plan to provide safe, secure and state-of-the-art agriculture biocontainment laboratories that research and develop diagnostic capabilities for foreign animal and zoonotic diseases."

State Sen. Michael Balboni (R-East Williston), co-chair of the National Conference of State Legislators Executive Task Force on Homeland Security, said he toured Plum Island last year and was surprised the facility was so outdated. Balboni said federal officials should put a Level 4 facility upstate in Rome.

Staff writer Deborah Barfield Berry contributed to this story.

Copyright 2005 Newsday Inc.

[This message has been edited by lou (edited 26 August 2005).]


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Lymester
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I like the big question in paragraph 5... as if they havent been studying enough dangerous diseases and as if everything they've studied comes with an anticdote.

Put on your boots and grab your shovel for this article.

Thanks Lou. It's a classic


Posts: 519 | From CT | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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