As far as the rest goes, if you think you have Lyme, hopefully the Dr. that is testing you is a LLMD. If not, post on here and someone will help you find one, but I would get that ball rolling as the IgeneX results take 2-3 weeks.

Best wishes,

jloisu

[This message has been edited by jloisu (edited 31 August 2005).]

According to the following link, band 30 is "possibly a variant of outer surface protein A." [not Lyme-specific]

Band 60...?? never heard of it

This is a very informative link on interpreting the Western Blot. Read it now, but read it again when your "real test" comes back!!

Western Blot explanation: http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/022767.html

I just got my test results back
from Igenix today--
Results were indeterminet--

I definatilly have lyme--
I had perfect Lyme bruse on
back of my leg 20 years ago--
I have been sick ever sence--
I have or have had almost every
symptom --
I think I may also have Babs--
test came back indeterminate also--

If the test could not find Lyme
in my blood--It sucks perty bad--

I have a friend who used to preform
these tests--Very compulcated--
many steps--I can see why they
dont work---

Don't throw out the IGeneX test quite yet. It is the best lab we have for doing the Western Blot. I came back indeterminate too, but this is based on the CDC screening standards set up a long time ago to track epidemiology and not for diagnostic purposes.

As Lymetoo says, the bands that are positive and or indeterminate make a big difference.

But yes, there are many reasons why the WB can be inaccurate....too many to even list, from timing of the test, to test procedures, to antibody levels, to lyme changing forms like the cyst form, to antibody-antigen complexes formed when the antibody finds the lyme and binds to it like a lock and key. Then the test looking for the antibody doesn't see many if any of them because of all of the antigens (lyme) floating around binding to the antibodies...many other reasons....

BUT the point is LYME IS A CLINICAL DIAGNOSIS. The testing is merely a piece of the puzzle to support the diagnosis made by a qualified LLMD.

Best wishes,

24 kDa (OspC)*
39 kDa (BmpA)
41 kDa (Fla)

An IgG immunoblot is considered positive if five of the following 10
bands are present:

18 kDa
21 kDa (OspC)*
28 kDa
30 kDa
39 kDa (BmpA)
41 kDa (Fla)
45 kDa
58 kDa (not GroEL)
66 kDa
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::

66 + kDa = *66-kDa P66 Oms66 Hsp outer/integral membrane protein
P66, P60, P41 which are dominant immunogens of (all) types of borrelias
PMID: 9162453 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9162453&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

I would not trust any Lyme test from Quest. Post your results from Igenex when you receive them.

HE states that there are 9 known Bb genuus specie specific.

He staes that if you have ONE of these bands pos you have Bb-Lyme.

they are 18, 23, 30, 34, 37, 39, 83, 93

Mine were lost for 5 wks!

1. Recent infection before immune response
2. Antibodies are in immune complexes
3. Spirochete encapsulated by host tissue (i.e. lymphocytic cell walls)
4. Spirochetes are deep in host tissue
5. Only blebs in body fluid; no whole organisms needed for PCR
6. No spirochetes in body fluid on day of test
7. Genetic heterogeneity (300 strains in U.S.)
8. Antigenic variability
9. Surface antigens change with temperature
10.Utilization of host protease instead of microbial protease
11.Spirochete in dormancy phase
12.Recent antibiotic treatment
13.Recent anti-inflammatory treatment
14.Concomitant infection with babesia may cause immunosuppression
15.Other causes of immunosuppression
16.Lab with poor technical capability for Lyme disease
17.Lab tests not standardized for late stage disease
18.Lab tests labeled "for investigational use only"
19.CDC criteria is epidemiological, not a diagnostic criteria

FDA bulletin on testing: http://www.fda.gov/medbull/summer99/Lyme.html

IgM Results:

18kDa IND
22kDa -
23-25kDa +
28kDa ++
30kDa +
31kDa +
34kDa IND
37kDa -
39kDa +
41kDa +
45kda IND
58kDa IND
66kDa +
73kDa -
83kDa -
93kDa +

the WB test has to be preformed perfectily
to even get slightly reliable results-
The test has many complucated steps

And even if test is preformed perfectly
all the things Lymetoo listed
come into play also.

My friend is writing a paper that
explanes how the test is preformed--
and I will post it .
I think you will be surprised how
it is done --
I will give you a short discription-
the termonaligy is not correct

Blood is seperated into differnt parts
one part is used for test-
A slide is made up with a thin film
of a substance (subtrate)
that is devided into sections(bands)

In each section(band) a substance
that attracts certian things is placed-
Each section is different-

Then the part of your blood that was
seperated is placed on the bottom
of the slide -

The slide is then tilted so that
the things that are in the blood
that test is looking for has to
climb up the slide against gravity
to each section--

To make the blood climb up the
slide a eletric current is applied-

Then after a certian amount of time
the slide are examened-dye is
applyed to help see results on some
tests--

The slide is examened by a med tech
who inturpts results--

The tech has to inturped results
because the test dose not give
yes-no results--

The test dose not look for the germs-
it looks for your bodies responce to
the germs--

The amount of the stuff the med tech
sees in each section(band)
is what determins the test results-

The tech may not see anything in band
and this would be( -- )
If tech sees alittle of the stuff
it will be marked ( - )
If tech sees a little more
it will be marked ( + )
Tech sees a even more
it will be marked ( ++ )
and so on-

The tec may only look at
certian bands

Keep in mind that the slide is being
examened under a fairily high power
microscope-- not a easy task

The procedure each lab uses is
slightly differnt (Igenx-Quest ect)

And each lab also has its own critera
for what equals a ( ++ ) ect.

Also each med tech is also going
to inturpet tests differently --

The conditions in the lab have to
be perfect threw out test--
Tempature- humidity- light ect-
Im not sure but I think test takes
several days to preform.

The only way the test can be
preformed at price that we can
afford is threw doing test in
large numbers--so the med tech
dose not get to spend much time
on your test.

Also after you have been infected
for awhile the effectivness of
the test drops a bunch.

The WB test is also used to DX
anthrax--Remember the anthrax letters-
The government did not trust the test
eather and gave Everyone large doses
of ABX.

Aperantily the WB test can find some
deseases fairly accuratilly
but Lyme is not one of them--

I did find several good sites that
explained how WB test is preformed
in fairly plain english by googleing
wester blot--I will see if I can
find again and post--Jay--

Band 30 is OspA binding protein and is specific for Lyme.
Band 66 is also specific for Lyme (and they say "not 60" to differentiate it from a heat shock protein.

While you tested overall negative on the Quest test - most Lyme Dr.s treat if you have symptoms and ANY specific bands...

What is very unusual is that you did not show antibodies to band 41, which is a non specific band (cross reactive with other spirochete bacteria- even mouth bacteria) but is almost always present as positive.
You might have been just belwo the intensity cut - off level....

It'll be interesting to see your igenex results- they report the "inderterminant" bands- meaning you have antibodies - just not very many.