lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
Ok so I talked to 2 health care practitioners about the symptoms that I experience from milk thisle.
One told me that it was good and I should start at a lower dose and another told me that I should take a very small amount and If I still have effects then dont take it.
Well yesturday I took a 1/4 of a capsule.
An hour later I got a splitting headache, very sore muscles, burning in my muscles, doubble vision, I was depressed and I had stabbing burning pains in my feet.
I had to take a skelaxin to take the edge off and it didnt even do that good of a job.
The milk thistle makes everything very much much worse!!!!
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN????
I went to my old kinesiologist today and he gave me a different brand that he says is more pure.
Im gonna take it on my day off so I can function. When I take the milk thistle im in so much pain and so tired that I cant move for 7 hours.
Does anyone have any insight what-so-ever as to what is going on?
I have a feeling that the MILK thistle can be very powerfull if I use it properlly.
Please someone help!
Thank-again in advance. good health to all
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
hi, i don't want to be presumptuous since i am very new at lyme disease diagnosis although i have carried it around for 30 years. but i do milk thistle in tea a very pure tea and i drank it last sunday for many hot water refresheners for me, i want to be as drugless as possible i know milk thistle is very powerful and a good liver detox
i wonder if you would be willing to try the tea remedy? maybe that would be good for you? i am not sure though, you may want a bigger dose since i don't kjnow the full extent of your situation.
but i love milk thistel in the form of tea my system is extremely sensitive and i find that is all i need
Summary: Milk thistle has been used traditionally to treat liver conditions such as jaundice (yellowing of the skin and whites of the eyes). Recent research suggests that milk thistle extracts may be useful in helping the liver and kidneys recover from damage caused by certain drugs and alcohol. Milk thistle has the potential to raise or lower levels of many drugs, including ones used for HIV infection. Therefore, people with HIV/AIDS (PHAs) who are taking anti-HIV drugs should consult their doctors and pharmacists about possible interactions with milk thistle.
What is milk thistle? Milk thistle (Silybum marinum) is a tall plant with a thistle-like appearance. Native to Europe, it now grows in North America. Although several parts of the plant may be used in herbal remedies, the active medicinal ingredients are concentrated in the seeds. Silymarin is a term used to describe three similar compounds considered primarily responsible for the plant's medicinal action.
Why do people with HIV use this supplement?
To protect the liver and kidneys Having a healthy liver and kidneys are crucial to the body's good health. The liver plays an important role in storing and releasing dietary nutrients. Both the liver and kidneys produce hormones and other chemical signals needed by the body. The liver and, to a lesser extent, the kidneys, modify and break down most drugs taken into the body. Both of these organs are places where waste materials are collected from other parts of the body. With HIV disease, the liver may be under increased strain for one or more of the following reasons: HIV infection increases the production of free radicals, which can damage the body's cells in the same way that rust damages a car. And PHAs have been found to have reduced defenses against free radicals. Because the liver is so heavily involved in detoxifying many of the substances that enter our body, a lot of free radicals are produced in this organ. Thus, HIV infection increases stress on the liver. The use of anti-HIV drugs may place an increased strain on the liver and kidneys because these organs help to detoxify medications. The livers of some PHAs have other stresses unrelated to HIV infection, including hepatitis B or C and the effects of current or past use and abuse of recreational drugs and alcohol. Note: One early warning sign of liver distress or damage is an elevated level of liver enzymes. This can be detected by means of blood tests. These enzymes are usually monitored closely in people with HIV.
Milk thistle and HIV/AIDS While milk thistle has not been studied in controlled clinical trials to find out its effect in helping heal liver damage caused by anti-HIV drugs, it has been tested for its ability to help people recover from liver damage in other chronic health conditions. PHAs who are considering the use of milk thistle or its extracts need to pay particular attention to the information in this Supplement Sheet's section on warnings.
Cautions and concerns Although occasionally it has been said to cause mild diarrhea, milk thistle has no other reported direct side effects.
Warnings 1. Milk thistle and anti-HIV medications Researchers at the University of Pittsburgh have suspected that milk thistle can slow down or reduce the activity of enzymes in the liver. What does this have to do with HIV? Enzymes in the liver break down many of the substances that we eat and drink, including medications. If the activity of these enzymes is reduced, then drugs remain in the blood longer than they otherwise might. This could lead to higher-than-expected levels of drugs in the body, causing side effects or intensifying already-existing side effects. Alternatively, if the activity of enzymes is increased, then the level of drugs in blood may fall to less-than-normal levels. This could help HIV resist the effect of the drugs you are taking and reduce your future treatment options.
Many medications taken by PHAs, such as protease inhibitors and non-nukes, are processed by this liver enzyme. If milk thistle is taken by someone using protease inhibitors or non-nukes, it has the potential to affect the levels of these medications.
To find out if milk thistle affects indinavir (Crixivan) levels in people, researchers at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) in Bethesda, Maryland, conducted a study. They used healthy, HIV negative subjects taking the protease inhibitor indinavir at a dose of 800 mg three times daily on an empty stomach. Milk thistle was taken at a dose of 175 mg three times daily with food. Overall, the researchers found that the total amount of indinavir that entered their blood was decreased by only 9% with use of milk thistle. Perhaps more significant were the changes in trough levels of indinavir.
"Trough levels" refers to the lowest level to which a drug in the blood falls over time. It's easiest for HIV to develop resistance when drug levels are at their lowest -- at the trough. Levels of indinavir are at their lowest just before it's time to take the next dose -- eight hours after the last dose was taken. In the study, milk thistle lowered indinavir trough levels by about 25% compared to their levels when indinavir alone was taken. This change was statistically significant, that is, not likely due to chance alone. In one subject, trough levels decreased by as much as 60%.
A decrease of 25% in trough levels may be a concern for some people who are using only one protease inhibitor in their treatment regimen. However, in North America and the European Union, more doctors are increasingly prescribing indinavir with another PI -- ritonavir (Norvir). This is because Ritonavir can significantly increase and maintain high levels of indinavir. For the same reason, ritonavir is also used to boost other PIs including the following:
amprenavir (Agenerase) lopinavir (in Kaletra) saquinavir (Fortovase or Invirase) When taken with ritonavir, because it is such a powerful booster, indinavir levels may not be significantly affected by the dose of milk thistle used in the NIH study.
The precise effect of milk thistle on other single protease inhibitors without the ritonavir boost, and on non-nukes, until studied, is not clear.
2. Milk thistle and other medications Below is a short list of some other medications that are processed through the CYP3A4 enzyme. Based on the effect of milk thistle on liver enzymes in the lab, it is possible that levels of these medications may increase if taken by people who are also using milk thistle. This list is not exhaustive:
posted
It sure sounds like you are allergic but I dont know. Not everyone reacts to these things the same. I cant eat wheat or dairy and if I take psyhillium to clean out my bowels it blocks me up so I dont go at all.
Right now your body is screaming at you that it doesnt want that stuff. If you are taking pills its possible the reaction could be some filler in the tablet.
If your determined to keep trying this you might want to think about trying the ground seeds. It wouldnt have anything else in it and you could control how much you are taking cuz its not so condensed.
I buy the whole seeds and then grind, enough for a few days, in coffee grinder and put them in a plastic bag that I roll oup to take most of the air out of before closing.
I take 2 rounded tablespoons every day but you could try 1/8 tsp or less and see if you still get a reaction.
Good luck!
Posts: 561 | From connecticut | Registered: May 2004
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
Thanks for your resposne.
Its interesting to note that Milk Thistle actually increases the side effects of certain medication.
Im on Biaxin and Rifampin,,, so these could be building up in my body.
I asked my doctor and he didnt know!!!! He told me to take it and then when I told him of my reaction he told me to stop.
Im going to a new doctor on the 27th at the wonderfull cost of $575 for a second opinion.
The thing is I used to be able to take milk thistle no problem maybee 4 years ago.
It was when I developed a sensitivity to alcohol is when I started getting this reaction.
I think it might be related.
As far as other liver products, L-Glutothione makes me very sleepy.
Im taking Alpha Lipoic Acid which is supposed to increase Glutothione in the body which helps clear the liver.
Its just so strange,, I dont know if im doing my body good or not.
Ill keep ading to this post.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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