posted
I'm fascinated with posts that mention mold concerns in the home environment. Naturally with my nuero symptoms I've wondered whether mold is a conern but dismissed the notion because my wife and kids arn't sick, the house doesn't smell moldy, and the limited accessible framing appears clear and dry.
I've wondered whether people reporting suspicians of lyme for the whole family checked into their environment. We moved into a brand new house in February and my symptoms got uncontrollable with some headaches and big time heart palps (that resolved) in april.
I've had such symptoms on and off leading up to then but as of this past April, the symptoms worsened quickly to an emergency room visit in June, an MRI, and concerns about my job/future and the kids. The only thing that helped has been abx.
I thought mold was possible as it rained like mad last summer when the house was being framed. But am not sure which would be worse, mold in a new house with a mortgage or nuero lyme.
I had brain lesions in my June MRI (four months in the new house) and started abx for lyme around Aug. 1. I did feel tremendous releif with Doxy around weeks three to four with some symptoms up and down since then.
I am gearing up to suggest a new treatment stradegy. I am certain that brain/nerve inflamation is the primary cause of all symptoms which could be lyme or mold.
I have not tested positive for lyme, but had the rash five years ago. Could mold toxins cause brain lesions in four months while the rest of the family seems fine?
Could mold cause my brain to inflame to the point I slur my speech, have difficulty concentrating, on and on, while the kids are learning letters and such in the next room?
Posts: 87 | From Yorktown VA USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I am not sure if mold has anything to do with lyme symptoms or not. But one thing I have noticed since my whole family has been treated for lyme is that ALL of our severe allergies to anything and everything has disappeared completely!
Everytime mold & pollen season would come around we would all be on allergy meds for months. We have not taken any allergy meds in almost a year now.
I don't know what the connection is maybe lyme makes you more susceptible to mold and other allergen's.
I do notice that people that I know have LD and are not being treated have enormous amounts of allergies, along with all the typical symptoms.
I had some pretty bad mold expereinces a few months ago at my old house. In addition to the Lyme symptoms I had, there were several instances where my head felt like it was suddenly going to explode.
I would feel this imbalanced heaviness in my head and then not be able to walk straight, like I was extremely drunk, stumbling and weaving. At one point I could not even get up off the floor. My head felt like it weighed about 500 pounds and I was slurring my words.
I know that the basement-type area we were in was quite old and musty and we lived in Nanaimo, BC which is pretty damp and I know there are houses there with significant mold (lol "mould") problems and I suspect this place was one of them.
Don't know if that experience helps at all, but I did also notice that as soon as we moved this one particular disturbing symptom stopped completely.
Cheers,
Alison
--------------------
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. --- Edward R. Murrow Posts: 923 | From California | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I read somewhere that allergies produce a detectable immune response. Have also noticed that I developed a pollen allergy for the first time and subsequent aversion to perfume, chlorox, other strong odors... all this after acquiring lyme. Since being treated, these have settled down.
My theory is that the immune system is on alert, even overactive, when the lyme bacteria are in the system and evading the antibodies, etc. Frustrated immune system can't find the bad guys, so it lashes out at things that previously were not a problem. OK don't laugh, I know it sounds funny, but it sure fits my responses.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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riversinger
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posted
Dr. S, who works with both Lyme and mold, says that 25% of the population is particularly susceptible to mold damage. For some, they won't have any trouble with mold UNTIL, something triggers them, like a Lyme infection. It is very complex, but it sets off a cascade in the immune system that just doesn't stop.
If you are responding to antibiotics, it is unlikely to be ONLY mold. So, yes, you could have bothe things going on, and your family could be doing just fine in the other room. Though if your house is badly contaminated, everybody will be affected eventually. That is important to find out.
posted
Foggy - Is the mold AB test a shot in the dark like the ELISA for lyme AB or a more reliable test?
Lou - I developed chemical sensitivity too - I can't workout in the pool anymore during the week because my allergies get so bad I can't function for hours afterward.
Riversinger - Did you see Dr. S? He is not so far from me and as I still don't have an LLMD, may be worth a shot?
Posts: 87 | From Yorktown VA USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
i have had experience with lyme, allergies, mold and chemical sensitivity, as well as sick building syndrome issues at work related to bird and bat waste.
i found it is cumulative-and the opposite , whatever that is. when i was in a bad work environment or my lyme was bad my allergies and chemical sensitivities were much worse. as i got awaay from bad environments and treated lyme i had less problems with the other problems.
also-emotional stress affects my symptoms.
i learned a long time ago not to blame everything on lyme and if it seems you have something that is fixable-go for it-it will make living with lyme easier. good luck.
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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riversinger
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4851
posted
YorktownNL,
I did not see Dr. S, but he consulted with me on the phone after I realized I was in the middle of my third major mold exposure.
My first coincided with what was most likely also my acute Lyme episode, but that went undiagnosed for ten years. I was first diagnosed with mold problems after my second bad mold exposure, via an antibody test, which showed antibodies off the charts. I was put on Sporanox for eight months. Two months into that treatment, I also showed positive on the Lyme Western Blot.
I've been in treatment for the Lyme for two years now, and was doing much better till I moved into a new rental that turned out to have real mold problems. I went down like a ton of bricks. I had brain MRIs and was put on antepileptic drugs to control the severe headaches before they figured out it was mold again.
I think Dr. S has some really good ideas. I am not sure if he completely understands that Lyme can be chronic, but I know he is helping some people. There are others who leave him without being helped. I don't think ANYBODY has all the answers.
But the change in my pain levels has been dramatic since starting his protocol. I have been taking Cholestyramine for almost 7 weeks now, and my pain meds have been way reduced, and I used to take a lot more and still be in pain. No headaches.
I'm about to start treatment for the antibiotic resistent staph colonization that he says causes a lot of problems. I fit his profile, it is working so far, so I am game to try. Whether it will help you, I can't say, but if you go, tell him the lady from Sonoma County says hi!
You can learn a little more from his websites, and also, his new book explains a lot, if you have the patience to read it.
posted
Riversinger what kind of symptoms were you having in regards to the mold exposure. I was tested in May '05, and had 9 diferent mold antibodies in my system. Also had dust mites. I was on sporanox for 2 months, just got off it. I will have blood work done next week. Also, did you have any problems with the sporanox? I had difficulty breathing, swallowing problems and headaches.
Posts: 146 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jun 2005
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riversinger
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posted
Coach, the first time, I was having asthma like symptoms, rashes, rosacea (still tend to have) abdominal pain, diarhhea, headaches, nerve pain, sinus pain, migrating pain in my teeth, fevers, extreme allergic repsonse to mold.
Much of that improved with Sporanox. I was told you had to stay on it a very long time, because it only kills the mold when it is growing, and the mold stays in spore form a long time. I herxed big time the first two weeks on Sporanox, ran major fevers, then the symptoms started to fade.
This second time I also had fevers, very severe headaches with nausea and vision problems, twitching, tremours, rapid heart rate, rashes, exhaustion, nerve pain, etc. I didn't have the asthma like symptoms until recently, which is why I didn't go back on the Sporanox, because I didn't think I had an infection this time. But I may still have to go that route again.
The doctor I originally saw says mold can affect your health in three ways. It can cause allergies, it can colonize the body, usually in the sinuses, lungs, gut, or skin, or it can cause toxic reactions. You treat it depending on how it is impacting you.
If it has colonized you, it can also be causing toxic or allergic reactions at the same time, and you can't escape because it is growing in you. That is when you use the antifungals. My doctor also insisted on an anti mold diet and a mold free environment.
I never had any trouble with the Sporanox. I had my liver checked regularly, and it was fine. After about two months of treatment, I only used a half a capsule a day. The doc said as long as there was some blood level it was enough to take care of any developing spores. That helps to keep the med reactions lower than when you are on the higher doses necessary in the beginning.
I am hoping this other protocol works, though, because I don't look forward to a lifetime of super sensitivity to mold, and having to take a med like Sporanox forever. I just don't seem to be able to tolerate ANY exposure, which is pretty hard to control.
posted
how do you get tested for mold and how do you get your house tested for it? we just moved into a rental in may and in july hung some sheet rock in the basement for our landlady and have noticed alot of mold spores on it....right after we hung it my asthma skyrocketed, but i am doing ok on inhaler but my fiancee started to get the lyme symptoms back again? all coincidence or what?
-------------------- joy Posts: 24 | From westerly ri 02891 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
would you mind describing the skin rash's associated with mold? thanks patteicake
Posts: 687 | From PA | Registered: Oct 2004
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riversinger
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4851
posted
Fungal Hypersensitivity; Pathophysiology, Diagnosis and Therapy
By: Doctor Vincent Marinkovich
Introduction
Molds or fungi are everywhere in nature and their wind borne seeds (spores) make up the majority of the microscopic particles in the air at anytime, even when pollen season is at its peak. Their value to the food industry is enormous while their contributions to medicine in the form of antibiotics, vitamins and other drugs is inestimable. But they can cause trouble.
Humans in good health handle typical exposures to molds in the air, in their homes and in their workplaces without much difficulty. However, certain allergy prone individuals may have symptoms during peak mold levels that include asthma, runny nose, sneezing fits and itchy noses and throats.
In the immunologically compromised patients, a single mold spore can initiate a deadly process. Patients on chemotherapy or immune suppression imposed for organ transplantation and those with chronic diseases such as AIDS, recurrent infections, cystic fibrosis and diabetes are also at risk when exposed to molds at levels that healthy individuals can handle.
Exposure to high levels of mold can be a threat to anyone's health--as noticed in certain occupations. These conditions were given names such as farmer's lung, pigeon breeder's disease, malt workers disease, etc. They shared common symptoms, usually involving nose, sinuses and lungs and the consequences were serious, often leading to permanent breathing disorders and death.
Over the last 30 years nonoccupational exposures have become recognized as dangerous in homes with moldy air conditioning or humidifiers, homes near composting facilities, and homes with water damage.
Exposure to high levels of fungi can be a health threat from inhalation, ingestion or skin contact involving tiny mold spores (invisible to the eye), mold toxins (mycotoxins) or mold bodies themselves. Initial symptoms seem to be the result of inhalation, such as sore throats, hoarseness, cough and nasal congestion.
With time, symptoms can progress to include headaches, fatigue, rashes, dizziness, shortness of breath, sinus infections, ear pain, muscle and joint pain, and fever. These symptoms are the result of direct mycotoxin exposure and the effects of an over active immune system trying desperately to overcome what it perceives to be an overwhelming infection.
The immune system generates antibodies to the absorbed mold materials (antigens). These antibodies react with the antigens to form immune complexes, which is all part of the body's normal immune elimination function. When the immune clearance machinery is on overload the complexes remain in the bloodstream causing myriad symptoms, known to clinical immunologists as serum sickness, and appearing to the patient as a severe, unrelenting flu syndrome.
Exposure to certain mycotoxins can result in brain damage seen as short-term memory loss, cognitive dysfunction, inability to concentrate and "fuzzy thinking." These changes seem to be reversible, at least in part, but they can take years to resolve.
Once the patient has become hypersensitive to the mold in their environment, they have also become overly reactive to all molds in their life including those they breathe elsewhere, those they eat and those that may be colonizing their tissues. Relief of symptoms can only come with a significant reduction in exposure including a mold free diet, avoidance of mold ridden environments and treatment of mold colonization.
Some mold colonizations are well-known such as athlete's foot, vaginal yeast infections, ringworm, excessive dandruff, toenail fungus, etc. But molds are opportunistic and can become established on any tissue that has been previously damaged.
This would include the sinuses of the patient who has had a sinus infection, the lungs of a patient with asthma, the nose of a patient with nasal congestion and the gastrointestinal tract of patients who have had chronic indigestion or abdominal discomfort.
The patient's healthy, reactive immune system can prevent the mold from invading surrounding tissues and causing infection. However, it is not able to remove the mold from the mucosal or skin surfaces. The colonization continues, the patient continues to form immune complexes with the mold antigens, the overload continues in the patient grows sicker.
Once there is significant colonization, the symptoms continue even after the patient leaves the moldy workplace, or home when the high exposures occurred.
Diagnosis
The diagnosis of fungal hypersensitivity syndrome rests on three criteria; an identified heavily contaminated source, appropriate symptoms temporally related to exposure, and high serum IgG antibody levels to molds. IgE antibodies are usually not involved and skin tests are, therefore, usually negative.
Specific IgG antibody levels to molds are helpful in supporting the diagnosis of fungal hypersensitivity. Everyone is exposed to some mold and, therefore, some antibody to mold is found in nearly everyone. But the levels are low.
Individuals exposed to heavily moldy environments make great amounts of antibody. In mold hypersensitivity patients it is common to find antibodies to molds in class three or class four categories. Occasionally a patient with significant mold problems will present class two antibody levels.
Mold antigens are highly crossed reactive, which means that an antibody response on exposure to mold A may show significant reactivity on the IgG panel test to mold B as well. Sometimes the molds to which the patient shows highest antibody levels are not identified in an environment survey. This reflects the difficulty of getting the mold growing happily on wet sheet rock to grow on an agar culture dish.
Therapy
Therapy is based on avoidance. The contaminated environment must be remediated or abandoned, a mold free diet is very helpful, and colonization must be eliminated by the appropriate use of antifungals.
The most common colonization sites are the nose, nasopharynx and esophagus. A compounded nasal spray containing 2 percent Nizoral in saline used four times daily with thorough wetting of the nose and nasopharynx is extremely effective. For colonization of lungs or sinuses, Sporanox at 200-400 milligrams per day is useful.
For primarily gastrointestinal symptoms, miconazole or econazole in 250 mg capsules can be very effective. This is given twice daily. If Candida antibodies are highest, Candida may be the offending organism. Nystatin capsules (as 500,000 u) are helpful given one million units three times daily.
All use of antifungals can evoke a flulike Herxheimer reaction in the hypersensitive patient at the initiation of therapy. This is presumed to be due to massive die off of the colonizing fungi with an overloading release of fungal antigens and toxins onto the mucosal surface. To prevent such flulike reactions therapy should begin at a quarter to an eighth the final dose and advanced, as tolerated, over a two to four-week period.
Once therapeutic doses are achieved, treatment needs to continue for six months or more although the patient will report symptoms reduction after a few weeks. The need for prolonged therapy is presumed to be due to the presence of fungal spores that cannot be killed until they germinate.
Conclusion
The diagnosis of fungal hypersensitivity is difficult for most physicians because mycology is not a strong subject in medical school. Most colonizations are not life-threatening and such conditions as athlete's foot and yeast vaginitis are often self treated with over-the-counter medications.
At the other extreme are the life-threatening fungal infections in the immune compromised patient, which are usually treated by oncologists with help from infectious disease specialists. In this article fungal hypersensitivity and colonization is occurring in healthy individuals who have been exposed to excessive fungal contamination in their homes or workplaces. They experience symptoms, which are usually attributed to viruses such as an upper respiratory tract infection or the flu.
As time goes by and the symptoms persist, the patient may come to realize the basic problem is heavy fungal exposure from having read about someone else's affliction in the newspaper or magazine. It now becomes the physician to recognize the problem and know what to do to help his/her patients.
riversinger
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4851
posted
I've found there is a lot of controversy in the field of mold testing, both human and environmental. I had my antibody tests done through the lab recommended by the doctor who wrote the article I posted. As you can see, the antibody tests can't really pinpoint the exact mold you have been exposed to.
Testing in the home is even worse. Tests are variable, depending on time of day, airflow, when the mold sporulates, and a hundred other variables. Also, someone may be made sick by very low levels of mold, while someone else takes much higher levels to have symptoms.
If you decide to have your home tested, get some good recommendations before shelling out cash. But if you can see mold, you don't need to test!!! You know you have trouble.
Dr. S's testing is explained in his book, Mold Warriors. It isn't testing specifically for mold, but more for markers in the immune and endocrine systems that show specific dysregulation in the face of biotoxin illness.
Pattie, my mold rashes look like the facial rash you see with rosacea, or sometimes in lupus, the butterfly rash across the face. It is red, and sometimes rough and itchy. In other places on my body, it has looked like ezema. From what I undertsand, any rash can become colonized with a fungal infection, because the open, raw skin is vulnerable.
troutscout
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3121
posted
I believe the key word here is NOT mold.
My wife and I moved into a home in March 2001 and I immediately started having health problems to the poin that by September I was hallucinating, sensitive to everything, ( www.ildf.info/page3 here a better version) ....here's what we found....
the house was FULL of insecticide. (There was NO mold...very dry.)
That's right insecticide. I was subsequently told I suffered from Multiple Chemical Sensitivitie Syndrome.
When we moved out of the house I got better. (OH....in the mean time they pulled a polyp the size of my thumb out of my front maxil sinus...this is rare...and it was coated with mold.)
My lyme went nuts....now back tracking we determined that the mold in my nose had been there a while, I had candida...systemically AND the insecticides and materials that were used to manufacture the house ....are what set it all into place.
Moral of the story...the modern building materials send off noxious gases that many people get sick from....and they also spray houses heavily for termites when they are newly constrycted...that result in new housing...a VERY toxic environment to live in....very toxic.
I say it isn't mold...its the new materials that did you in.
Trout
-------------------- Now is the time in your life to find the "tiger" within. Let the claws be bared, and Lyme BEWARE!!! www.iowalymedisease.com [/URL] Posts: 5262 | From North East Iowa | Registered: Sep 2002
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riversinger
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posted
Good catch, Trout! It is possible that the new house is causing problems. Doesn't have to be pesticides. I wasn't thinking about that, because he said the house had been rained on. It is VERY common to have mold problems from the kind of conditions described.
But you are right. I am currently looking for a place to live after my last mold disaster, and any place under two to three years old, is so toxic I can't be in there more than a few minutes.
Building materials are full of chemicals, beyond the pesticides sprayed for temites and other pests. There are solvents, formaldehyde, all kinds of things in walls, floors, and carpets that off gas for years. So that IS another possibilty. Preservatives and fungicides in paints and muds used in the walls, chemicals in the insulation. It is a chemical soup in a new house.
Unfortunately, the chemical possibility doesn't rule out the possibilty of mold, or the possibilty of Lyme. I think both Trout and I are living proof that one person can be hit by everything.
posted
Since starting Lyme treatment my allergies and chemical sensitivities have gotten undere control for the first time in my life.
Years ago I had allergy testing that showed an extreme sensitivity to mold. With Lyme treatment I react far less.
I still keep my home relatively free from chemicals and my mega air filter is still running 24/7. I still do all I can to avoid, cigarette smoke, perfume etc.
I also started the anti yeast diet when I started abx. It is hard to know how much of my improvement was from treating the Lyme and how much was from the diet.
When I get off abx I'll be able to test it by reintroducing the presently forbidden foods and seeing if my allergies get worse.
hatsnscarfs
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