posted
Hi there - thanks for the responses to my earlier 'breastfeeding' post. I have actually had a consult with Dr.C.R.Jones and he told me it would be fine to breastfeed, but not until the actual milk came in (not ok when it is just colostrum). I have not heard this before, however, from what I am told, he is the guy to trust! I will have the placenta, cord/blood, foreskin and my colostrum and brestmilk all tested. I have been treated (and am currently) with Amox while pregnant (2000 mg a day!) and hope that will help him while in utero. Anyone have links to articles or studies about colostrum vs. breastmilk, etc...? as we know, there are just not enough studies being done, but Iwould like to read whatever is out there! thanks again!
Nal
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6801
posted
Man, Im not much help to you. All I know is that the colostrum that your body produces right afer having your baby has the highest amounts of antibodies that get passed to your baby those first couple of days. This is wonderful when you are perfectly healhty but can be dangerous to the baby when you are not since you may be passing on Lyme antibiodies as well.
However, I nursed all 3 of my kids. The youngest, I didn't even know I had Lyme at the time, is a very healthy, active toddler. My only concern would be that if you give your newborn a bottle for the first couple of days, will he/she be willing to take up nursing after that? Regardless, enjoy that little one when he gets here!! When are you due?
Nancy
-------------------- Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!
-Chuck Swindoll Posts: 1594 | From Colorado | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I would suggest contacting your local La Leche league. They were great support for me during my breastfeeding days and I'm sure they would be happy to locate the answer for you.
Posts: 460 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
Thanks for sharing what you learned about colostrum vs. breastmilk. Would you mind asking Dr. Jones what studies showed this?
The only one I found (searched for colostrum borrelia) on PubMed (below) was on horses and cows. I've heard so many wonderful things about Dr. Jones but I would not feel safe breastfeeding based on a study of cows and horses. It's a chance I, personally, would not take - the downside is just too big. However, I would avoid raw milk products as a result of the study.
(spaces between lines added by me for ease of reading) Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1988;539:235-43. Related Articles, Links
Borrelia burgdorferi infection in Wisconsin horses and cows.
Burgess EC.
School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Wisconsin, Madison 53706.
Blood samples from Wisconsin horses and cows suspected of having clinical disease due to Borrelia burgdorferi infection were submitted by veterinary practitioners. All serum, milk, colostrum, and synovial samples were tested for B. burgdorferi antibodies by immunofluorescence.
Whole blood, milk, colostrum, and synovial fluid samples were cultured for B. burgdorferi. Records were kept on the clinical signs of antibody-positive animals, date of sample, and location of the animal by county.
Of the samples tested for antibodies 282/430 cow sera, 118/190 horse sera, 5/10 cow synovial fluids, 3/6 horse synovial fluids, 2/3 cow colostrums, 0/44 cow milk samples and 1 aborted fetus serum were antibody positive at a titer of 1:128 or greater.
Of samples cultured 7/156 cow bloods, 2/35 horse bloods, 1/14 cow synovial fluids, 0/4 synovial fluids, 1/3 cow colostrums, 0/44 cow milk, and 2/10 cow urine samples were B. burgdorferi culture positive. For both cows and horses October and May were the two peak months for the number of antibody-positive samples.
The most frequent clinical signs in antibody-positive horses and cows were lameness and swollen joints, but many also had stiffness, laminitis, abortions, and fevers. Not all antibody-positive animals showed clinical signs.
These findings show that B. burgdorferi infection occurs in horses and cows and can cause clinical illness in some but not all animals. Infection in cows and horses occurs most frequently 1 month after the emergence of adult I. dammini.
Because spirochetes could be isolated from blood, synovial fluid, colostrum, and urine, these animals could be important in providing an infected blood meal for ticks and bringing B. burgdorferi in direct contact with humans.
So it's pasteurized milk for me! I saw raw cow milk colostrum in a major chain health food grocery yesterday. Scary!
Posts: 261 | From San Mateo, CA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
On a related note, i haven't taken any store-bought colostrum for the very reasons DeniseS gave.
Posts: 2708 | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
On a related note, i haven't taken any store-bought colostrum for the very reasons DeniseS gave.
emailing some veterinarian schools, your local vet with some questions, checking veterinarian website and pub med. journals should help.
Posts: 2708 | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am not sure what Study(ies) Dr. Jones got his info from - I do have a request in to him to obtain that info myself. I am hoping it is based on something significant, because most Drs and La Leceh League people dont seem to agree with him.... this is all so stressful! I am currently on antibiotics and will be throughout breastfeeding as well, so I am hoping that helps regardless.
Posts: 52 | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Crabby, I'm sure it is really stressful. From what I've heard you're in good hands. My two LLMDs (on quite notable) also would prescribe abx during pregnancy. And you're going to test your milk etc.. And you can test your new baby's urine. So far, knock on wood, my 2 year-old son who breastfed while I had LD (unbeknownst to me) is completely normal and is very bright and he is currently being treated for LD. How lucky! And I'm guessing that the very early treatment was important.
Soooo, you're asking good questions; you're with the LLMD who everyone says is the best ped. LLMD in the country. And you have choices.
Cap, I wouldn't eat raw animal products at all, myself. At this point, I just don't want to risk it. Funny thing is, while on abx, might be the safest time to get away with those kinds of risks ;-)
Nal, I don't see the problem with passing on Bb antibodies. As I understand it, it's passing on the Bb itself that is the problem. The antibodies would help the baby fight the Bb however it might confound LD tests that measure antibodies as an indicator that LD is present.
Yada yada. This all sure has got me thinking ... and that can be dangerous ;-)
[ 23. September 2005, 01:25 AM: Message edited by: DeniseS ]
Posts: 261 | From San Mateo, CA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Found this post in another discussion. Follow the path and you'll find journal article citations regarding lyme transmission from mother to fetus etc.
Go to the section on Reproduction/Sexuality, and you'll find citations and quotes from peer-reviewed medical studies that found evidence of congenital Lyme. (This was posted by Lyme ED in antoher topic.)
Posts: 261 | From San Mateo, CA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
Are you sure Doc J said it was safe to breastfeed after the milk had let down?
I have never heard him say this, he has always advised against brestfeding when you have active Lyme. Even if you are being treated.
..do you think you may have misunderstood and he meant to give baby the colostrum but not to continue after that?
My daughter contracted it via breast milk after I had a bite and rash (treated immediarely and continuing) when she was 10 months old. Borellia was detected in my breastmilk at MDL labs (via PCR) as well as Bowen (pictures) while I was being treated aggresively.
Is this something he advised based on the particulars of your case?
I also should say that LaLeche League did not agree with Doc J on the breastfeeding issue nor did they understand Lyme disease or other tick borne infections, and will not likely change their stance until major studies are completed, which is a shame because Doc J has many documanted cases in his practice, treating over 5000 children with TBD's. Also, it will take many years before full studies can be completed, which leaves many babies unprotected all that time. LaLeche is simply not educated enough in the TB diseases to understand transmission possibilities.
Transmission via breastmilk is much more likely when Mom is treated than transmission during treated pregnancy is.. (treated pregnancy outcomes are very good)
baby is independant from your system when breastfeeding, developing their own immune system..
abx treatment of Mom can in no way guarantee there are no motile spirochetes..spirochetes have been found in all bodily fluids and tissue, and can live and travel through the digestive system and Mom's abx's do not protect the baby via breastmilk.
Please let us know of there are particulars in your case that are different, or if new information has been discovered by Doc J.
All the best to you and baby, Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic