posted
what happened to this study, which was supposed to be conducted along with the klempner farce...you know, where the rhesus monkeys were infected and then treated with the unsubstantiated klempner protocol, and then sacrificed so their brains could be examined...it's been 10 years since the inception of this study, and no results...why not? where are they?
Posts: 523 | From Stillwater,OK,USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Don't know. In fact, I didn't know such a study was to be done. Klempner study not ten years old, is it?
Had a look at pubmed, couldn't find anything of that description being published, although some other monkey/lyme studies have been done. If you want to see them, search for philipp mt, as he is at tulane and will probably be a listed author for such things.
When I get a chance, will look at the crisp file to see if nih funded a study of this description. No funding - no study. Is this information NIH wants?
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
remember, the klempner study was concieved in 1995ish, and all of the data published in 2001 had been collected by december of 1996...people forget about this...that 4.5 years elapsed between the cessation of the klumpner study and the publishing...and it wasn't because of the peer review process...klempner's 2001 paper wasn't subjected to a peer review, it was accepted and published posthaste...they were in a hurry, suddenly, to dessiminate this garbage...hmmm
Posts: 523 | From Stillwater,OK,USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Grant Number: 1R01AI042352-01 PI Name: PHILIPP, MARIO T. PI Email: [email protected] PI Title: PROFESSOR AND CHAIRMAN Project Title: ANTIBIOTIC OF CHRONIC LYME DISEASE IN MONKEYS
Abstract: DESCRIPTION (Adapted from the applicant's abstract): This project, presented by an outstanding group of investigators that includes Drs. M. T. Philipp as P.I. and M. S. Klempner, is designed to complement and expand a human study already in course directed to probe the efficacy of an antibiotic regimen designed to treat chronic Lyme disease. The investigators propose to study in rhesus monkeys the efficacy of ceftriaxone and doxycycline to eliminate B. burgdorferi for tissues, especially from the central nervous system. The protocol is two-tiered. In the first tier, 6 monkeys will be tick infected with neurotropic B. burgdorferi NT1 to confirm the neurotropism of the strain. One monkey will be left uninfected, as a control. In the second tier, 24 animals will be tick infected with strain NT1, with four remaining uninfected. The animals will be divided into two groups (12 + 2) and one will be treated with antibiotics and the other given placebo. The ability of the antibiotic to clear up tissues from infection with B. burgdorferi NT1 will be ascertained by a variety of serially applied procedures that will include: culture and PCR of skin biopsies; PCR and RT-PCR applied to CSF; immunological detection of bacterial antigens in urine, and qualitated and quantitated analysis of anti-borrelial antibodies paired sera and CSF, anti p39 (BmpA) antibody in serum and levels of matrix metalloproteinases in samples from nervous tissues. The analysis will also include postmortem histological examination, culture and PCR studies in tissues from many organs.
Institution: TULANE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISIANA 6823 ST CHARLES AVE NEW ORLEANS, LA 70118 Fiscal Year: 1997 Department: NONE Project Start: 30-SEP-1997 Project End: 31-AUG-2000 ICD: NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES IRG: BM
Posts: 523 | From Stillwater,OK,USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT...WHERE ARE THE !%@$# RESULTS OF THIS STUDY?
Posts: 523 | From Stillwater,OK,USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
You are right. When I went to crisp database, that project was continued from 97 to 02, but not since then.
Something very odd appears in the 2002 entry, which I have copied and pasted below. Also I am not sure this would actually mirror Klempner's study, in that they seem to define chronic lyme as occuring earlier in the monkey experiment than in the human one. And wasn't one of the criteria in K study that patients had to have previous unsuccessful treatment?
Here's the pasted piece from 2002, last year it was funded:
'Results: Six rhesus macaques were inoculated with a neurotropic strain of B. burgdorferi (strain NT1) by exposure to infected ticks, and one control animal was exposed to the bite of uninfect ed ticks. All animals were confirmed to be infected by cultivating spirochetes, and amplifying spirochetal DNA by PCR, from skin biopsy samples. Animals were monitored over a six-month period. Unlike previous experiments, in which animals had been infected by needle inoculation with the NT1 strain, no evidence of infection in the central nervous system was obtained. Success in infecting the CNS may thus depend on the inoculum dose, which is likely higher when animals are infected with 108 spirochetes by needle inoculation than by exposure to the bites of ticks. Future Directions: The antibiotic efficacy trial will now begin, but needle-inoculated animals will be employed. FUNDING NIH-NIAID RO1 AI42352-01 and Base grant. PUBLICATIONS None."
Strange that they would have finally figured out how to infect these monkeys and the actual abx trial was to start, funding cut off.
Did it really take this long to figure out how to infect monkeys? Of course, they were doing other lyme research at the same time and publishing on it. This seems to have just fallen off the map.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Another thought -- maybe the monkeys were actually infected by the tick bites but with Lyme tests being so inaccurate they couldn't prove that they had CNS Lyme disease!!!!!
That would kind of mess up all their hairbrained theories if the monkeys were sick and they couldn't explain why.
WV Hillbilly
Posts: 48 | From Five Mile Creek, WV,USA | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
there's a scandal here...probably not coming from tulane, but coming from klempner and fauci...
Posts: 523 | From Stillwater,OK,USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
NIH is a black hole, no accountability. Anyone who blows the whistle and works for academia will soon be out of a job. Because the universities dump people who don't bring in grant money, and a whistleblower will be blackballed. This is how silence and conformity is enforced.
Some years ago (five?), a report on NIH said it needed more public interface, so they hired pr people for each institute and set up some kind of board. These were just window dressing and in no way changed procedures there. In fact, after the report. NIH stopped showing the grant amounts! Some who objected to this have lately set up a database that does show the amounts, but I bet that is pretty unpopular with NIH and they are probably looking for ways to shut it down.
Wonder if it would do any good for us to write our senators/congresspeople and ask for explanation on the monkey study? Writing to NIH would get us ignored, but they usually respond to congressional inquiries.
What do you think?
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
i think the place to start would be the PI listed on the grant...Dr. Philipp, not a bad guy, certainly not a klempner...just a polite email asking him what if any results were obtained and asking if these will ever be published...it's unlikely he'd discuss unpublished results, but he might comment on whether or not he may publish in the future, or if the study was cancelled give a reason why...another person to email would be phil baker at NIH, these grants are his responsibility to oversee, so he would definitely have information, although I've found that he tends to throw a lot of BS at you, making excuses without ever actually addressing the point in question...be careful with him...he's more of a propagandist,a technical PR guy, than a scientist...totally under the sway of fauci and steere and IDSA.
Posts: 523 | From Stillwater,OK,USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
For a very good study on rheusus monkies and lyme, see Diego Cadavid,M.D., Neurologist who, I believe does a lot of Multiple Scler. work. Autopies, and study of the spinal col., nervous sys., and heart.
As I recall, one group of monkies had steroids, and the negative effects of them were studied.
Posts: 2708 | Registered: Feb 2005
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