Topic: fibrinogen and B. burgdorferi ??? ANYONE! Thick blood, high clotting
livinlyme
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How many of you are familar with this term? fibrinogen is a thickening of the blood or a high clotting factor.. seems to run in every member of my family (all members have Lyme D)and I was wondering how many of you also have this problem?
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I just found out recently what it means. I changed Dr. and he did a lot of testing. My fibrinogen level is at 360 mg/dl, normal is 180-310 so it's not too bad, but...it may explain my dizziness?
Do you have a problem with getting dizzy upon standing too fast? I was going to see if my Dr. could put me on heprin when I start IV abx.
Best to you~blessings always!
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livinlyme
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Shar, Funny I have not been tested for this yet, I just know my blood is very thick and labs techs always complain.. lol... I have had dizziness on rising too fast since I was a teen,, and it has been a problem all of my life.. except for when I was being treated with ABX it went away as most symptoms and pains did.. buu I stopped treatment 4 months ago and now I now have High BP.. and chest pains and I'm on nirto and aspirin. I stole AB's from my kids to get a grip on my symptoms they always have extra cause they never take them every day ... kids skip when they forget a lot... but anyways I was just thinking of the family issues and wondered what the tie in was with this.. How long have you been on ABX? I'm not familar with heprin either..??
I just want to be well again.. I tired of being tired and taking pills to feel better. I just wish,,,, I could be better without all the pill popping.. once and for all live life and be happy again like I was when I was young... as I am so sure so many on this board feel the same exact way.. Rally up people!! It is horrible that we are so sick and so little is being done to resolve this illness! Linda D
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posted
I go to the Fibromyalgia and Fatigue Center (thought I had Fibro) and one of the first tests they did for me was for hypercoagulation (thickening of the blood.)
The way they explained it was that when viruses and Lyme set themselves up in our bodies they hide by thickening the blood (called fibrin I think.)
They have me on Heparin shots twice a day which I give myself in the stomach. Its a little tiny needle. It is supposed to help break up the fibrin and work with the ABx's to get the viruses/lyme out.
livinlyme
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THX Sandy, Now if I can get my boys health on the right track I will attempt to deal with my issues.. they are here for a lot longer than I will be so I want them to have the best egde possible. my issues I feel are probably too far advanced to get reversal unless the find a cure! I will hold this info and seek help later if it isn't too late by then ..LOL LindaD
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posted
I have a high clotting factor, but I don't know about the fibrinogen. I take warfarin for it, but I'm going to see if I can take heparin instead.
Kathy
How many of you are familar with this term? fibrinogen is a thickening of the blood or a high clotting factor.. seems to run in every member of my family (all members have Lyme D)and I was wondering how many of you also have this problem? [/QUOTE]
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Jellybelly
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Hypercoagulation means thickened blood. Research from the late 1990s reveals that many patients with chronic disease may have an underlying coagulation defect contributing to their symptoms. While few doctors are familiar with this condition, understanding the theory behind it can help explain many symptoms. Treatment based on this theory can lead to improvement and even recovery.
David Berg of Hemex Laboratories has been studying the hypercoagulation often found in patients with chronic disease. This list currently includes CFS/FMS, myofascial pain syndrome, osteonecrosis of the jaw, fetal loss, multiple sclerosis, Crohn's disease, Sjogren's syndrome, IBS, Lyme disease, autism, gulf war illness and ADD.
Thick blood is the result of fibrin being deposited in the small blood vessels. Fibrin formation is the last step in the clotting process that stops bleeding when blood vessels are cut. Normally, long strands of fibrin weave a mesh around platelets and blood cells to form a clot that plugs the break in the wall of a vessel.
A very complex series of reactions activates the clotting process. The release of thrombin ultimately results in the production of a substance called soluble fibrin monomer (SFM). SFM is a sticky protein that increases blood viscosity (thickness) and results in the deposit of fibrin on the endothelial cells lining the blood vessels. Normally, a single burst of thrombin would generate a large amount of SFM that would produce strands of "cross linked" fibrin, resulting in an actual clot. However, in CFS/FMS and other chronic conditions, continuous generation of low levels of thrombin can occur. The result is hypercoagulation.
There are at least three possible causes or contributing factors:
Virii, bacteria, mycoplasmas, and/or parasites activate certain antibodies in the immune system that trigger the production of thrombin, generate SFM and result in fibrin deposits. Genetic coagulation defects can lead to hypercoagulation. White people are susceptible to this and black people have a resistance to it. Chemical exposure can result in changes that trigger the coagulation process. The results of this thickened blood are: When fibrin coats the walls of the capillaries, nutrient and oxygen delivery to muscle, nerve, bone and organ tissue is compromised. The fibrin coating the capillaries and producing thick blood can make virii and bacteria less accessible to treatment. Thicker blood is harder to pump. By depriving the gut of proper nourishment, hypercoagulation may be a major factor in IBS. If the bowel is deprived of blood, cells will die too rapidly. The endothelial cells lining the capillaries are the source of heparans, the body's natural blood thinners. When fibrin coats these cells, the heparans cannot be released, reducing the body's ability to dissolve the fibrin. Hypercoagulation can be detected by Hemex Laboratories' ISAC (Immune System Activation of Coagulation) test panel. Five substances are measured, and abnormal results on any two are considered a positive test result. A standard coagulation work up usually will not detect any abnormalities, since it only assesses the risk of actual clotting. The ISAC panel is 10 to 20 times more sensitive, as well as being more expensive.
In a 1998 study, heparin was given to 7 FMS and 9 CFS patients suffering from hypercoagulation. Of the 7 FMS patients, 1 reported some, 3 moderate, and 3 significant improvement. Of the 9 CFS patients, 4 reported moderate and 5 significant improvement.
Since then, David Berg has learned that the best chance of success involves treating both the hypercoagulation and the underlying pathogen(s). Ideally, a blood thinner such as heparin is prescribed one month before beginning antibiotics for bacteria (for example mycoplasma or chlamydia pneumonia) and/or transfer factor for viruses (such as HHV6, CMV and EBV). The heparin is continued throughout, and then slightly beyond, the course of anti-microbial treatment. It dissolves the fibrin, making the virus and/or bacteria more vulnerable, thus improving the treatment's effectiveness.
CFS/FMS patients who have been ill for more than ten years may show only one abnormality - or possibly none - on the ISAC test. A trial of heparin, however, especially if accompanied by antibiotics or transfer factor, may change that. Berg suspects that once a pathogen has a large area of fibrin deposits in which to settle, the less active it needs to be. It may therefore stop triggering the coagulation process. As the heparin removes the fibrin and allows a more effective attack against the pathogens, they reactivate and/or become more active, once again triggering the coagulation process. Most patients have more abnormalities on the ISAC test one month into treatment than on their initial test, indicating progress. They often must pass through a time of increased illness when the infection is temporarily activated.
The treatment of this condition is not easy or inexpensive. It requires a doctor who is familiar with the theory, comfortable with the lab testing and willing to individualize treatment.
Hypercoagulation (Thickened Blood) can lead to: Immunity Chronic Fatigue / Fibromyalgia Syndrome Studies show that 79-92% of CFS/FMS patients have a hypercoagulation defect.
Infections Lyme Disease
Mental Autism
Recommendations and treatments for Hypercoagulation (Thickened Blood): Animal-based Heparin Heparin or another anticoagulant may be used as the primary blood thinner. Each patient must be treated individually.
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livinlyme
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Thank you Jelly Belly, Now when I go to the cardio on Tuesday at least if he presents my blood as being thickened I will know why and what to say... that was a big HELP! I do know that while on the treatment of ABX my blood was thinning out nicely.. but now it is as thick as ever... and after being on ABX for 3 years,, so I guess I fit the chronic stage of Lyme eh.. or something else they will probably think down here under.. so I best get ready to load up on additional pills.. LOL
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There are actually a couple of different tests. The ISAC panel (Immune System Activation of Clotting) is usually done and there are also some genetic tests. Dr C (the LLMD in Missouri) has reported that a high percentage of Lyme patients have the genetic problem as well as the immune system problem. The 2 problems are treated differently I think.
Heparin shots or sublingual lozenges (expensive) or the supplements Nattokinase or Lumbrokinase all help with the immune system problem.
WV Hillbilly
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daystar1952
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I have high fibrogen and I was told to take turmeric for this problem. I have been buying it in bulk and putting it in capsules. Haven't been retested yet
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livinlyme
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Okay my mother is on Nattokinas and turmeric.. she despises the turmeric since it causes major upset in bowel function on her.. I dont know what the new results from tests are since she does not discuss it with me any more..
I know the LLMD she sees said she also has a silent killer and had he not run specific tests she would be in her grave within a short period of time. I guess close to what my grandfather had been through in his lifetime.. hopefully this will not be the case now.. LINdaD
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How about a natural substance such as vitamin E & C to thin the blood? My husband has carotid artery blockade and is totally blocked on the left side and it's inoperable. His doctor has endorsed the use of vitamin E & C to help his problem.
quote:Originally posted by Gabriella7: How about a natural substance such as vitamin E & C to thin the blood?
That won't do much for hypercoagulation. It won't hurt, but it's not as good as nattokinase or lumbrokinase. Even bromelain would do more than Vit E & C. The three things I mentioned ARE natural.
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