Topic: It's not all that medical a problem, but what the hey...
liz28
Unregistered
posted
Hi, everybody. I have to warn you, I'm exhausted and half asleep and very upset after a whole day of dealing with the problem I'm about to ask about, so please forgive my groggy and over-the-top tone. I know I just need sleep, but I am so angry about this, I have to ask some fellow Lymies for advice.
There's not too many good aspects to being disabled with Lyme for years on end, but I did experience an unexpected one: for the past five years, I was so obviously sick and miserable and distracted, very few people ever hit on me, and dating was out of the question. So I think that without realizing it, I lost some basic defences most people (men and women both) usually develop and maintain out of habit, because I didn't need them the way most people do.
As I started getting better over the past year, I kind of noticed I was getting this type of attention I wasn't used to, that was very aggressive, and not at all romantic. It was like people could tell I'd forgotten how to protect myself, and were taking advantage.
Over the summer, it got worse and worse. People were not flirting, or asking me out--they were following me around at my job or my neighborhood, or looking for excuses to grab at me in public areas (and by the way, I'm 38).
This fall, it's been getting really bad. A 64-year-old security guard at my job started following me around the office recently, and when I tried to brush him off this week, he showed up in my neighborhood and approached me at my subway stop in this really aggressive, angry way. Today a drunk guy in his late 60s cornered me at a restaurant during breakfast, brandishing a glass of wine and saying loudly, "I love curvy women!" until I had to run outside; another guy in his mid-30s chased me down the street on his bike, yelling that he was going to take me to dinner, and ANOTHER guy at work just spent five hours bothering me, in front of everyone. Two of my colleagues had to take him aside and talk to him about it.
Does anyone remember how people (men AND women) deal with this in their teens and twenties? I'm sure this is happening because I look vulnerable. And what's especially scary is these people aren't even asking me to coffee, much less lobster dinner and a movie. These are the people who could haul off and hurt someone, because they are angry at the world and looking for someone to take it out on.
Thank you all very much for listening/reading.
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
Liz, Wow, you must be sending off ~some kind~ of vibes!
Sorry, no advice. Carol
Posts: 6949 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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when people can foresee an un-invited potential encounter-problem, they get on their cell ph., and start talking; even though they didn't turn it on, and actually call someone.
if ya don't have a cell ph., get someone's old cell thats out of commision, and morph into actress Liz 28.
one police statistic physical violence is that the perpetrator of such a crime is three to nine ft. from the victim.
caat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 2321
posted
Yeah, I can give some advice on that. Stand very straight and look confident- don't hunch your shoulders. Put your feet feet slightly apart (think Xena!) And speak in a firm deep voice. Do not use the higher tones in your voice.
Look them in the eye. Stare them down. Tell them calmly but firmly in a slightly loud voice to go away. Or leave you alone. Project your voice so it draws the attention of others around you but keep it in somewhat deeper tones. Use sort of a stage voice.
I've dealt with that sort of thing like I would deal with bad dog. People are a lot like animals especially when they are behaving on that level. Being confident and ready to defend myself has saved me from being raped twice. And from being mugged I don't know how many times.
But what's causing this in the first place? Pheremones?? Fear? People can smell fear and lack of confidence on a subconcious level. Being sick can do a number on our self confidence sometimes. Even if you are afraid though, a good act of confidence will fool almost all. Pay attention to your body movements.
If it keeps happening there are usually free self defence classes in any urban area. Contact women's groups in your area and see if they have any. Usually they not only teach physical self defence but also phsycological. And knowing this stuff helps one's self confidence in these situations.
Personally, sick or not, I would have kicked that drunk guy if he cornered me and was physically groping me. And I would have enjoyed doing it. Really drunk guys are pretty easy to kick in the stomack. And no one blames you in that situation, as long as you draw attention to it first with a stage voice. They just haul off the drunk guy and make sure you're ok. Beleive me, I know...
Posts: 1436 | From Humboldt county ca usa | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ugh that is horrible what you are going through. I agree with everyone's advice and comments.
I am 39 so I have learned over the years how to avoid inappropriate attention from men with my general demeanor. And have learned street smarts from living in Philadelphia and Trenton. I look straight ahead or only at the people I'm with (not glancing around like I'm desperate), walk tall, don't smile at strangers, always look like I know what I am doing, dress conservatively and in such a way that people will respect me (without looking frumpy).
There IS a way of being tough without being a *****, I think it means just being self-confident. I've never (knock on wood) had a bad encounter.
Also ask yourself if maybe you are subconsciously looking for attention, particularly because you are sick. I have a friend who does this without knowing it and she can't figure out why she is always getting inappropriate attention from men and why the women who are married to them don't like her. I don't know you so I could be totally off about this, and don't want to offend you, but just wanted to throw that possibility out there.
Let us know how you do!
Posts: 449 | From Vermont | Registered: Nov 2004
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Sorry to hear that you're dealing with this! I don't have much to add except perhaps try to focus on keeping your head high and eyes up. It is hard to exude confidence when you are struggling with an illness- I know. Do you have a good pair of walking boots? (kicking boots) There's something empowering about wearing a good chunky heel-one that makes a loud clunk on the sidewalk and says don't mess with me! I hope that this changes for you soon-
Sarah
Posts: 119 | From new york, NY, USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Everyones given excellant advice. I want to add just a couple of thoughts. Illness definetly changes the human energy field. While we are in the throws of illness we are focusing all of our energy on healing therefore we are not always quite attuned to what is going on around us. Not your falt. We really do not have the energy to take care of the world around us or often times defend ourselves. So yes we are very vulnerable and unfortunately the world is populated with people that behave worse than most animals would.
Surround yourself with non-toxic people that will not drain the energy you need for your healing and while you are regaining your strength and social life, go out with people you trust and who understand your health status so that you can enjoy yourself safely. And by the way, if the idiot at work doesn't stop, you may want to have a talk with your personel manager to help remind this co-worker of the laws regarding sexual harrassment in the work place.
Remember YOU did not cause these problems and you have every right to defend yourself!!!
Red Deer
Posts: 22 | From usa | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
You could also try some self-defense courses. I've been taking karate for 8 years (because I love the work out and the forms) yet I find myself feeling very confident that I could defend myself if I had to.
Moves come naturally to you after you've trained for so long. But, even a short course will give you options you've never thought of using your hands, feet, elbows, knees and head.
Plus, you have the bonus of staying in shape and looking confident!
posted
This is all excellent advice--thank you. Actually, my colleagues at work yesterday were all watching the fiasco of this guy being a jerk, and they were all very supportive after he left.
While I'm not subconsciously seeking attention, there is something else going on: I just graduated and started in a new profession, and am constantly worrying about whether I'll break in and become successful, and clearly don't have a lot of money. So I probably radiate the energy of someone seeking validation.
And the whole time I was sick, I had to be nice to everyone around me, because I was so vulnerable. It still hasn't sunk in that I'm not so dependent on others' good graces anymore.
Karate is a fabulous idea, and for a while now, has been the first thing on my list of hobbies to pursue when I can afford some.
I'm going to work on the body language--I love that it doesn't matter whether it feels fake at first or not, you just do it anyway. What's interesting is that no matter how you feel, if you demonstrate that you are just too much trouble to attack, predatory types will probably just move on to an easier target.
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minoucat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5175
posted
Liz -- I think this does belong in medical, because it happens more often than people realize.
It happened to a good friend of mine, a woman I've known for 30 years as a strong, self-confident person who was fearless about speaking her mind, standing up for herself, and doing what she thought was right in any situation.
She became very debilitated from an illness, although she looked fine. For the first time in 20 years of working she began being harrassed by men at work -- receiving creepy mash notes and flowers from a weirdo married guy; getting followed around; strange phone calls; getting groped by the boss; and much much worse.
Like you, she had been physically and emotionally drained by her illness, hanging on by a thread, and doing her best for a long time to avoid the sort of confrontations that would take energy to deal with. She tried deflecting the harrassement in a civilized way by ignoring it, brushing the person off lightly, or trying to reason with the person. It didn't work. She also didn't let anyone know, somehow feeling that she was bringing it on herself. This is not at all how she would have dealt with things if she'd been well.
We live far away from each other and I didn't find out about it until well after the worst incident, after which she quit work altogether. What struck me when she told me what hsd been going on was that she didn't feel the mind-blowing rage that I felt on her behalf. She was shocked, horrified, upset, sickened -- but not homicidally furious, which would have been the single most appropriate emotion.
I strongly agree that body language, voice tone, and projecting confidence are incredibly effective. Free self-defense classes are a great idea -- you'll be energized by the people around you in the class, as well as learning skills that will really help.
On top of that, you need to get really angry. There is no excuse, vibes or no, for the sort of misconduct you endured. Picture what happened to you happening to a friend or family member you really care about. Are you reaching for the meat cleaver? Good -- hold on to that thought.
I think you need to report the security guard -- this won't be the first time he's done this, I pretty much guarantee. As for the guy in your office -- you workmates will be supportive, but they still expect you to deal with it. If an incident even looks as if it's starting again, stand up, lean forward, and tell him in a clear voice that his behaviour is inappropriate, and does he really wants you to report him to HR. Wait a moment, then walk away. He'll probably complain to anyone nearby that you just can't take a joke, but if he sees you mean business, he'll stop.
Welcome back to the rat race.
-------------------- ********************* RECIDITE, PLEBES! Gero rem imperialem! (Stand aside plebians! I am on imperial business.)
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
I think its more when your weak and down the wolves start nipping at your heals testing to see if your ready for the kill. And Iam a man and have seen this. 10 yrs ago I would have just glared at them and it would have stopped.
Now Iam ready to put some teeth down some throats
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
Good news/bad news. Its wonderfull you graduated and are working but this stuff is scary.
Sounds like you got plenty of good advice and that your follow up post heard what was being said.
This is redundant but I know Ive read or heard that criminals, be they theft or sexual predators, look for certain outword signs.
Stooped posture, eyes looking down and generally mousy and fearfull. They are viewed as easy targets. I like the Zena thought. Think of yourself as her when you walk and if someone give you unwanted stares look back at them as if you could pound them into the ground if needed.
Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 561 | From connecticut | Registered: May 2004
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Just Julie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1119
posted
Two things---- I betcha it is about what happens in the animal world--I've seen it when my or a neighbors cat, becomes ill in any way---they become victims of other cats that are stronger, and healthier.
When my cat (or the neighbors) is well again (these are outside cats, too)then the cat that is stalking/attacking them, moves on, and it becomes a non-issue.
I only use this analogy because I've seen it, and heard about it from other animal people, and I bet it crosses over into the human kingdom, too.
Everyone's post here makes complete sense to me. The only thing I would add is to perhaps carry pepper-spray? For those times on the street that you may encounter someone who is stalking you, when you are either pre-occupied, and not able to think quickly on your feet, or you are just plain tired-pepper spray does not require any physical effort, other than putting your finger on the trigger and pulling/pushing and pointing
I'd keep the spray on hand anyway, because ya just never know . . . dark streets, late nights, etc. Until or if you ever get your physical offense attack down pat, I'd just keep some handy. They sell the stuff at most sporting goods stores that I've seen, at least here in Northern CA.
I guess it wouldn't work so great in the office, but for the other times you may have felt violated, or stalked, it'd come right in handy. Nothing speaks louder than a woman attacked. . . and handling it herself!
-------------------- Julie Posts: 1027 | From Northern CA | Registered: May 2001
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HEATHERKISS
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6789
posted
I don't quite have the smae problem but........ sometimes I feel as if people take cheap shots. Kick you when your down.
Karate sounds like a great idea for you. It saved me from a 18 year old kid that pulled a knife on me and said, take off your clothes.
Actually I took Tae Kwon Do. This type of confidence helps you asses the situation like a fighting machine.
If you are still too tired just take a self defence course. I promise it will be a world of difference for you.
-------------------- HEATHER
Posts: 1974 | From ABERDEEN, NJ 07747 | Registered: Jan 2005
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hiker53
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6046
posted
I always have my cell phone and mace or pepper spray handy and am not afraid to use it. Might cause a stir at work, though, but it would be quite effective.
One guy at work kept rubbing my shoulders in front of everyone. He stopped when I told him to take his "f ing" hands off me in a very loud voice. Everyone heard me say it and he hasn't bothered me again.
If a guy at work is bothering you talk to your boss and mention that it is grounds for a sexual harassment lawsuit.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 9014 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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liz28
Unregistered
posted
Hi, just have a sec between jobs but wanted to thank you all for this insight and advice.
Have already experimented with changing my demeanor and notice an EXTREME sense of 1) guilt, and 2) fear that if I'm not "nice," some ill-defined authority figure will take away something, like, say, life-saving antibiotics. So you were all right on target--I WAS projecting some sort of timidity associated with having a health problem, and the predators picked up on it.
I did see my doctor yesterday, however, and he was delighted to hear I'm in remission. He's a very secure, sane guy.
The Xena idea is terrific, although flimsy leather hotpants may not be appropriate for October. The idea of acquiring a blond sidekick sounds promising, however:) More details as they come up...
Also, thank you for the flipside notion that when one feels better, one can take on more aggressive and competitive social situations with greater ease. Even though humanity has such a negative side to it, we do have this positive one as well, which is that we all have the capacity to develop a nuanced inner life that can have as much impact on our outer circumstances as physical action. Animals (supposedly) don't have this option, they act on instinct. It's very, very interesting that what we say to ourselves, how we choose to carry ourselves, how we take care of and nurture ourselves, has such a profound impact.
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