SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
I read a presentation from Dr. K from the Orthomolecular conference in San Fran in Feb that said there were 3 categories of patients that he sees. If I recall it was:
20% do not have Bb 50% have Bb but Bb or co-infections are NOT the cause of their symptoms 30% have Bb and co-infections that are the cause of their symptoms.
I may have the 20 and 30 swampped from memory but the 50 was surprising. Is that to say that 1/2 of people that do have Lyme and co-infections have symptoms from something entirely unrelated? If so, what?
Thanks
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by SForsgren: Is that to say that 1/2 of people that do have Lyme and co-infections have symptoms from something entirely unrelated? If so, what?
Thanks
Just guessing, I would say heavy metals, mercury poisoning, root canal or dental problems such as cavitations.
Where's GIGI??
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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SForsgren
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posted
Interesting, still seems like a very high number for something that has a big focus on Lyme. I have read and talked with some about the cavitations but that has even been in the context of Lyme. Hmm... Yes, where's GiGi?
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
"50% have Bb but Bb or co-infections are NOT the cause of their symptoms"
Question: Would that 50% have major herxes from treatment? How would you know if your symptoms are from lyme or babs or bart or something else? Did Dr. K mention that?
Most of us have had every physical test on the face of the earth before being diagnosed with lyme. If symptoms were from metals, would you herx on treatment? thanks Lymelady
Posts: 484 | From Fredericksburg, Va USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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SForsgren
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posted
Good questions. I don't know the answers. I was surprised to see the number as high as it was. So it seems to imply that 1 in 2 people with symptomatidc Lyme are not having symptoms from Lyme or related infections. This doesn't sound right so I am hoping someone can provide some clarifications.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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oxygenbabe
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posted
I think Gigi's in Europe for a month. He would probably have decided this via ART testing (autonomic response) so you have to decide if you agree w/ that form of testing's accuracy. I would also think that at different times he would find art testing to suggest different causes of symptomatology.
[ 07. October 2005, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: oxygenbabe ]
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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SForsgren
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posted
Up for Gigi.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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GiGi
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Member # 259
posted
All I can add here is that I have watched Dr. K. in action for many years. If he said 50% of the patients he treats and has treated over the years have Bb, but Bb or co-infections are not the cause of their symptoms, he is putting it at the very low end. When I listen to him in person and in a private setting, the number is much, much higher. Since he basically treats only chronic disease, literally everyone that walks in turns up with Lyme along with others as below.
I have yet to run into or meet any patient with a chronic disease who does not have Bb and co-infections that either show up right away or show up after they have been treated for a variety of other toxic infections, such as mycoplasma, herpes 6, Trichomonade, chlamydia pneu, toxoplasmosis, rickettsia, leptospirose, mutated strep, tuberculose, shiggella, lamblia and others. Parasites. Ususally, and that is the most common, it starts with chemical and heavy metal toxicity, followed in short order by dental infections that eventually cause the cavitations (holes in jawbone). The latest toxicity that he finds in more and moare patients recently is plastics!!!!!!!!!! Avoid them!
It is difficult to distinguish between all these different infections; in order to decide who opened the door for which one. It is possible that borrelia open the door to the immune system which are then followed by a variety of opportunistic infections. Often the secondary infections are diagnosed, but the borrelia is overlooked. It could be the other way around.
He clearly explains it in his article "Lyme Disease: A look beyond Antibiotics". www.neuraltherapy.com.
The sad part is that not all doctors do ART testing whereby they can readily diagnose which of the umpteen infections and neurotoxins are at the present the body's greatest burden. And it can then be treated until the next burden/infection shows itself via ART testing.
I have seen many patients with a totally different diagnosis where the Lyme infections were not readily identifiable, but which surfaced after some of the prominent infections and toxicities were treated. Heavy Metal is usually the major problem followed by dental problems.
But as one after the other can be treated or some in combination can be treated, slowly the immune system will return to is former strength and things start to lighten up and symptoms start to fade. That's why it can't be done in a year's time.
I have never been able to decide by symptom what my problem was - they were never identifiable for me and most the time Dr. K. comments to that effect. "I just don't know" ------------ let's treat what shows and go on from there.
If treatments are done in an order that is tolerable by the body, i.e. not digging deep for something while other toxins should be helped out first, herxheimer problems of the kind many of you describe are just not happening. Yes, there are better days than others, but herxes as they are described by some people are totally foreign to me.
That said, I wish all patients could be ART tested not only for the correct diagnosis of the infection and toxicity, but also for the best suitable remedy an individual needs and can tolerate.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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GiGi
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posted
have not figured out yet how to add to or correct my post ---------
Anyway, if ART or other energy testing is not available, individual history, family history, exposures have to be used to search for causes besides the tick bite. If you have a mouthful of amalgams, chances are heavy metal is a problem. If you have crowns and root canals...........If you worked with chemicals, etc. If you dowsed your yard with pesticides; if you worked with formaldehyde, artists using chemicals and paints......; if you worked for a time in a dentist office that was not amalgam-free; all that and common sense will give you clues. A good doctor who is aware of our toxic exposures - if you find him/her.
Yes, it's easuer to put this on the back burner. If you get well without addressing these, that much the better. I must add I have not seen it happen.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
So what exactly is everyone doing to address these other issues. We do not have ART around here nor can I afford to travel since we can't even afford the LLMD.
I am doing the detox foot pads, candida support, digestive enzymes along with vitamins.
What do you feel are the beneficial things for detoxing? Without costing me my other arm and leg.
Terri
Posts: 120 | From Northeast, MA, USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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map1131
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posted
Welcome back Gigi. You've been missed by many. Hope you had a great trip.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Mom2Matt, it's okay to get angry, but please don't get mad at me. I could have years ago kept my mouth shut and many of you would not have heard a few things that were very worthwhile. So let's keep things nice. I am not coming here to be blasted at!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you go back over just a few of my almost 3000 posts, you will find plenty of information to help you along the way without spending a fortune. As I mentioned in my second post, using common sense in deciding what may be causing you problems besides just the tick infections is not difficult at all. I forgot to include the hairdressers' history and products - if someone can't figure out where some of the toxins came from that are hindering you from getting better.
Anyway, the major helpers (after abx, if that's your choice) in addressing many of the toxicity/ infections that I posted above are:
Freeze Dried Garlic Chlorella Salt & C Cilantro tincture/tea PC Samento PC Noni (extract) Mt. Capra Goat Whey Whey products Mucuna/tea Essential Microbes Electrolites MSM
Nothing works if your mineral base is not complete. Goat Whey is great for it. Add a good Magnesium (Taurate) or similar. Learn to balance Mag and Calcium.
I have posted on many of the above "helpers" over the years and you will find more details on Dr. K's article about Neurotoxin Elimination Protocol on www.neuraltherapy.com. If you need more details, please ask me.
KMT 23 microcurrent works on every one of the toxicity and infection problems I mentioned in my above post. Every bit of Dr. K's experience with the multitude of microbes that are hitting many of us today is covered in the KMT. That's why I consider it a godsent.
Our next step would be to start conserving our precious earth. I will add the paragraph out of "Lyme Disease: A Look beyond Antibiotics" from Dr. K.:
"The response of the public health system so far has been denial and anger towards those who try to uncover the puzzle and help afflicted patients. This will certainly change in the near future. I expect that by the time the institutions discover Lyme Disease as a far more important factor in chronic illness than currently acknowledged, we will be confronted with new, far more dangerous microbes.
Antibiotics have disappointed in the treatment of Lyme Disease as a single modality. Antibiotics alone will not help us to cope with the coming plagues. All of us "alternative" practitioners have to start looking beyond antibiotics for help and for hope. The microbes have always been with us. They are not the enemy. It is us who have altered the environment so severely and in a way which facilitates the growth of lower evolved species like cell wall deficient microbes and viruses - and ends the life for many more evolved species. Extinction may be forever.
Lyme Disease is a messenger. If we don't change, someday not too far from now we may be on the endangered species list."
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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quote:Originally posted by henson2: Oh, dear... ... Gigi, I didn't hear that Terri was blasting you. I heard it as a valid question. (?)
Me too.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Sorry, the words just touched a sensitive nerve in my system!
More important ---- I forgot the Fish Oil on the list above. It is a major factor, for children and adults. (Fish Oil for obesity. Take fish oil when flying.)
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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henson2
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posted
Hi, Gigi,
We can all hope for a better future when the medical community is more open to what actually makes us well.
You've provided a wealth of fascinating material here. Thank you.
I'll be reading and learning as much as I can! (as I continue to figure out how to schedule treatments and daily schedule of rest etc. around academic work).
Warm wishes to all to feel well very soon!
[ 19. May 2007, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: henson2 ]
Posts: 1067 | From East Coast | Registered: Dec 2000
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I wasn't mad in the least. I honestly was just asking how to detox...I just was curious what everyone was doing to detox themselves while taking antibiotics. I have read alot on it recently and am just curious about what others are finding to be beneficial. I truly agree that there are other things that are the problem and not just lyme/co-infections.
I would love to try ART...think it's all VERY fascinating, but I just can't afford to travel and pay for it out of pocket right now, though I wish I could because I would in a heartbeat. I hope that it becomes available closer to where I live in the future.
I am sorry if you misunderstood my question as me being upset with what you were saying. I completely agree that we need to treat the entire body and other issues...we can't just treat for Lyme and expect a full cure, IMO. We need to boost our immune system, etc...
I was following the thread with great interest and just wanted to know more about what others were doing to detox. My brain gets so tired that going back through so many posts sometimes is just something I can't do...so asking what people were doing was just easier on my brain.
Again I apologize if you thought I was on the defensive with my post.
Terri
Posts: 120 | From Northeast, MA, USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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heiwalove
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Member # 6467
posted
GiGi, you're back!! yay! you've been sorely missed.
posted
Also, people on this site seem to blame everything on infections, mercury teeth and so on. Don't forget genetic disorders, they are more common than you think. For instance, Iron Overload disease, 1 in 200 people in America have it, and it can mimic Lyme in many ways. There are other common neuro disorders that can be caused by genetic disorders as well.
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