posted
My 12-year-old lab has been tested constently for lyme (in-office test). He started having severe joint pain around the time I was coming down hard with lyme (we have been together every step of the way including the day I was bitten, but he had flea and tick protection on and I did not).
In the last year his hind quarters have become so sore and painful it has been awful for him; vet said hip dysplaysia, arthritis, take these pain killers, etc.
Two weeks ago he started limping on his front leg, (never done that before), so I took him back to vet for expensive lyme test, sent to lab to test for antibodies.
In meantime, I started him on 200 mgs doxy (he weighs 100 pounds) and within three days, he was a different dog, pain gone from front legs and greatly reduced in hind quarters and getting better every day. It was like he suddenly reduced his age by 4 years, he was my young playful dog again. appetite excellent, enthusiasm out the wazoo.
In meantime, vet calls to tell me his tests were totally negative, he DID NOT have lyme. I asked her to explain why this enormous improvement on doxy and she did not have a clue but agreed to keep him on it. I give him probiotics as well as other supplements.
So whatever is the answer here? I am grateful cuz I adore him. One reason I took drastic action here is because labs and goldens can have serious kidney problems with untreated lyme.
appreciate your comments lymelady
Posts: 484 | From Fredericksburg, Va USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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bpeck
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3235
posted
Alot of the of the animal Lyme tests in out neck of the woods are done at Cornell - and I'm very familiar with their testing procedure. It's pretty cheap ($54.00) and it's an antibody titer screening that combines IgM and IgG anitbodies.
Most people don't know it, but all dogs receiving the heart worm blood test were concurrently Lyme tested by this method and the stastics are being looked at (at least in Vermont this year).
My Vet thinks that in animals, false negatives are just as prevalent as in humans - and since the current Vet tests are antibodies titers - many animals have Lyme that are testing negative. (You can pay more and get a western blot - but you know that could be Neg too).
My Vet would treat with Doxy if the dog was symptomatic - looks like your vet did too - that's great!. Glad to hear your dog feels better!
Barb
-------------------- Barb Peck (Elder LymeNet user). Lyme since 1975 Transfusion Posts: 1882 | From VT | Registered: Oct 2002
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Kara Tyson
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 939
posted
I think many vets are willing to treat as a prevention measure. My vet had a tick on him and was on antibiotics right away.
-------------------- Kara Tyson Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter Posts: 6022 | From Mobile, AL | Registered: Apr 2001
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I just lost my german sheppard to lyme...he always tested negative. I give him the doxy anyway and was told by my LLMD that dogs respond well to the treatment.
It did make him better for about a year, but then he became totally crippled almost over night...
He was my best freind for over 12 years.
Regards,
Julia
-------------------- Please consult your LLMD before making any changes to your treatment regimen. Posts: 641 | From NJ, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
I wonder if your german shephard had kidney damage from lyme, certain breeds get that because just the arthritis alone would not have killed him. Did you have to euthanize him due to the pain? My heart breaks for you. My guy is such a love in my life.
I had the lab test done that tested for antibodies and it came back negative
Think of all the animals suffering in pain due to faulty testing and undiagnosed lyme! Lymelady
Posts: 484 | From Fredericksburg, Va USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
We have been through hell with our dogs, TBD's and stupid vets. I think most vets are just as ignorant about these diseases as doctors. This story is about our older girl although I have lost a horse and another dog to TBD's. I also think the testing for animals is just as bad as humans.
Our dog was first infected back in 2000 and never the same. Her first symptoms were lameness in the rear legs. She did test positive for lyme and was given what I now know was a very low dose of doxy.
Anyway, Tess was never the same dog; she really slowed down and started having hip problems. She was 7 and vet told us she was getting old... I being stupid thought the vet knew best. Well fast forward to 2002 when the TBD's hit me hard. I kept thinking whatever she has I have because we both had a terrible time walking down the stairs...
After I was diagnosed in July 2003 I knew without a doubt Tess was still very much infected. She was put on another low dose of doxy and bounced back somewhat. She was happy again and walking better. She spent a couple of months on doxy, relapsed resumed another 3 months... She was also having problems getting up from a sitting position.
By 2004 we always had to help her get up from a sitting position. We got fed up with our vet as he said her problems were spinal plus he screwed up with our other dog and he was not pleased with my knowledge on lyme... At this point we have another with lyme/Bartonella henselae and this idiot thinks she does not need treatment. We found another vet out of state through NC vet lab to see our infected dogs.
The new vet did up the dosage to 600mg for Tess and she did another few months of doxy. Again I was told her problems were some sort of spinal injury and it was definitely not Lyme disease. It was a totally different problem. I knew in my gut these morons were wrong and I regret not listening to my inner self.
This past July she took a turn for the worst and almost died. We took her to the emergency vet clinic; they ran a battery of tests thinking cancer... They did X-rays... Every test turned out perfect. The vet said according to the tests she is a perfectly healthy dog. She was peeing blood, could not walk, eat or even lift her head. This 98 pound dog had lost quit a bit of weight over the last couple of years. She was down to 72 pounds and just turned 12 years old.
Well this vet (#3) thinks she has spinal problems too so he wants to run a CT scan which we agree to. I had already started her on doxy thinking lyme but what does a stupid lyme patient possibly know about Lyme disease? Well guess what Tess has a perfect spine and we now finally have a vet that realizes her problems are Lyme disease. It's a little late for her but at least we know. She was put on 800mg of doxy, 1000mg of amoxy, a low dose of prednisone as the inflammation was really bad. She responded somewhat in about a week where she was eating again (boiled chicken/rice). Neuro stuff still very bad.
We carried her everywhere and bless this dogs heart she never once had an accident in the house which floored me. She stayed on prednisone for a couple of weeks then weaned off that and stopped amoxy. Replaced with winstrol, continued doxy and started pool therapy twice per week. Follow up with vet every two weeks and after a month he really did not think she would walk again which we all expected...
However we continued the pool therapy and same med protocol hoping for the best. Well about 3 weeks ago she started walking very short distances and can now walk the length of our house and go to the bathroom by herself. She still needs help getting up and is by no means a steady walker but her legs do not cross in the rear nearly as much nor do her little paws get stuck under and trip her up. She has gained 12 pounds and is very alert. She is a hell of a fighter. Winstrol and pool therapy has made her much stronger and she has muscle tone. She now takes winstrol every three days and continues with doxy as well as many supplements plus her hair is growing back. It started falling out shortly after her major relapse. I hate the winstrol but she is much stronger on it.
They have spoiled her rotten at pool therapy. She has learned bad habits like barking non stop for a hand outs when we are eating dinner thanks to the therapist and staff but I would not have it any other way. She is now very strong in the front and can drag her self around somewhat but most of all she is happy again. You can see it in her eyes. She is stubborn as a mule some days but she cracks us up.
I hope any of you who know in your heart that your dog... has TBd's find a vet to help you and do your research. Do not ever think the vets know more than you if they are not lyme literate. I am sure you will figure out it is the other way around.
[ 20. October 2005, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: bel1268 ]
Posts: 240 | From Southern Maryland | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Thanks for great info, I have printed it out to take to my vet!! So sorry for all the grief you have undergone with these animals, it is a heartbreak. So many symptoms you describe are exactly like my Sam, bad back end, trouble getting it up off the ground, trouble going up stairs and I know it is so sore. He sleeps in the bathroom on the tile floor cuz it is cool on his backend which must hurt him. I cannot believe he does that when he has such a nice comfy bed.
What about giving a dog prednizone, would be contraindicated with lyme? He can still walk ok, so we talk nice short gentle walks, ball-throwing days though are over and how he loved it.
Thanks again Lymelady
Posts: 484 | From Fredericksburg, Va USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I do think pred is very bad but this was a situation where it was necessary. Tess was very, very sick... I would not suggest giving it to your dog and hopefully did not give that impression to you or anyone else that reads my post. That story was a short version too. I was trying to keep it short and it was still a long one...
I would have never allowed pred if the situation were different. The moral of my story is way to much is missed with these disease sand if we listen to our guts we may prevent what we have been through.
My male that has RMSF was like your dog with the playing. He was like the energizer rabbit, constantly playing, barking... Sweet boy but so much energy... Then all of a sudden he was not playing as much. Got to the point he played once or twice a day.
He started doing bad things... then would growl at us when we got on him for being bad or would think he was in trouble for no reason. This was not Max at all. Normally if you would not play with him he would play with himself or drive you crazy trying to get his way but was well behaved just full of energy...
Every morning after breakfast since he was a little tyke he would run through our swinging laundry room door waiting for me to take him to work. He would go through the door and push it back open and peek through waiting to leave...
Then all of a sudden he would eat breakfast and go back and sleep on his dog bed. I thought this is not right... Something is wrong thats not normal behavior for him. He could still take walks too but was just slowing down awfully fast for a 2 year old nut case.
Like I said before hubby... thought I was being paranoid. In his defense I did have a full tick panel done on Max in late April when he threw up bile a few times but all tests were neg.
I was right to have him retested in July... and felt so strongly about him being infected that I would have put him on meds regardless of the results. Max is now back to his nut case self. Not saying your pup has RMSF just saying TBD's can slow a dog down and sometimes as owners we miss it or do not listen to our gut.
Oh, one more thing. One of the reasons I probably picked this up with Max was because of what we have been through with the others. Hanna our bart/lyme girl changed quickly too. She was another one full of energy. She could jump down a 5' retaing wall with no problem and run circles around most dogs at 110 lbs.
I thought she pulled a muscle jumping down the retaining wall when she started limping in the fall of 2002. The limp stopped within a week and she seemed fine until a couple months later. She started peeing in the house, acting like she was in trouble, weird behavior... Looking back I should have known she was ill but I was so sick myself that I missed it.
She is still fighting lyme and bart. Her lyme test have never been positive but I now realize what a hot swollen hock is a symptom of... and feel terrible that I was so stupid.
What I am saying is that all dogs do not go lame per say they may just limp and then it goes away... or not limp or go totally lame... they may be aggressive to you or another pet in the house hold... or just have weird behavior... start peeing in the house when you have never had a problem... chewing or doing bad things...
Then there are the things that I have picked up that are similar to what I go through but this is long enough so I will stop now... but this stuff can be just as invisable in our pets as it is with us. Hanna and Max are beautiful dogs and look perfectly healthy. Tess did also before this last relapse.
[ 08. October 2005, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: bel1268 ]
Posts: 240 | From Southern Maryland | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Wow it is amazing how many of these symptoms my boy has: a tiny bit of aggression (never there in his life before)acting like he was in trouble, so picky about food when he used to eat ANY and EVERY thing, lots of the things you are talking about.
He is now on 300 mgs doxy, working him up slowly. Don't they have to eat with doxy like people. I would always throw it up without food. So two meals a day and his picky appetite presents problems for me. I give him the pills in cheese, but sometimes he is not interested in his breakfast so much (loves his dinner) and he is very spoiled and so sensitive these days, can't raise your voice even on the phone that he doesn't get upset. It is strange.
Like you I am horrifed I did not pursue this even though the tests were negative; also like you have been so sick myself but why should vet tests be any better at all than human ones? It cure would have saved him a lot of pain
thanks again LL
Posts: 484 | From Fredericksburg, Va USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Yes they do need to eat with doxy and I never mix it with dairy. I follow the human side of things when it comes to meds and what to mix them with.
My vet did say that the dogs could take any supplement that I do. Hope your guy is feeling better real soon. All mine have done well on the higher doses. Max was back to his old self in a few days.
Oh and Hanna can be picky about her morning meal too. Sometimes she will sniff it a while then finally eat some and once in a while she decides not but always eats in the evening.
I do wrap the probiotics... in cheese and they also get either yogurt or flavored kifer (2 oz) mixed with fish oil... and I break open a few probiotic capsules and mix it in too as well as milk thistle.
Posts: 240 | From Southern Maryland | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I have a two and half year old maltese. I worry about him getting lyme from me.
Any advice from those with experience?
We live in the city so are not exposed to typical tick areas. He is not socialized with other dogs because I've been mostly house bound the time I've had him so he doesn't get fleas or ticks from them.
We don't go to dog parks because he is afraid of the other dogs there. We do go to the beach.
He gets frontline treatment and most of his exercise is done either on city side walks or in our two story town home.
I would be heartbroken if he came down with lyme.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
My deepest sympathy to those who've had pets with lyme and coinfections.
Posts: 925 | From California | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Wow, that is a tough question. There apparently is no good tests for it so I think the best thing is to just watch your pup very carefully for limps, back-end problems and migrating joint pain. Look up the symptoms and keep an eye out.
My dog had all the flea and tick protection also but he was with me when I was bitten. I worried about the same thing, took him to the vet (he had symptoms) four years ago and was told he did not have it. Several tests since were all negative.
Well, he does and I am treating him now and he is improving so the pet question is a tought one because they cannot tell you if something hurts. We just have to do a clincial diagnosis ourselves becuz vets will tell you you are crazy.
Hope this helps! LL
Posts: 484 | From Fredericksburg, Va USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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