I know it's not the easiest question, but a general idea would be good.
I've had Lyme symptoms for about three months now. Started with a fever followed by chest pains, shortness of breath and dizziness. Then I had two more bad fevers and started getting headaches (above my eyes) with the dizziness. Then 3 weeks ago I develeped a persistent ache in several joints, especially in my wrists (feels like a bad sprain), along with a loss of sensation in my fingers and mouth.
I didn't have the tests for Lyme as they're too expensive and I don't have health insurance, but I managed to convince my doctor to prescribe me antibiotics, as I've spent a lot of time in NY, Connecticut and Mass.
I've been on 400mg Doxycycline for 8 days now, and 100mg Fluconazole for 3 days. The headaches and dizziness had waned about four weeks back but now they are back in full force, and my joints are flaring up big time. I really don't know if it's a herx or some kind of reaction to the medication.
I'm not sure what to ask, but any pointers would be much appreciated. I want to do whatever I can to kick this thing and get on with my life. Is there anything else I could do?
Many thanks,
Paul
Posts: 11 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2005
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mlkeen
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1260
posted
Hi Paul-
You are right, everyone's reaction time to abx is different. I'm not a doctor, but have several lymies in my family.
It certainly sounds like you are herxing. Lots of filtered water and stretching to flush the toxins out of your system should help.
The first time I had abx my symptoms reduced within weeks. I didn't have enough abx long enough though to get all the keets.
When I finally got good long term treatment several years later, there were severel 3 month courses of abx along the way, but never enough, it took a year before I truly felt better much of the time. I had many days that were better than my worst point. It took another year to feel great 99% of the time.
After 28 months of abx I'm on diflucan for a few months and then ketek again. Depending on how I feel and if I herx will determine what happens next.
NP40
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6711
posted
Paul,
You're probably looking at several months of tx. I would agree that what your experiencing is a herx. The abx is killing off the bacteria in droves which release their toxins when killed off, and hence a worsening of symptoms. Hang in there, it will get better.
Doxy is normally used in initial treatment in case you have erlichiosis which can be fatal in some cases. The doxy should clear it up and also treats the lyme. You sound symptomatic for babesia as well. Chest pain, labored breathing are very symptomatic of babs.
You mentioned that you don't have health ins. so mepron is out because of it's cost prohibitiveness. I'd ask the doc for zithromax and plaquenil, then order artemisinin [herb] from Organic pharmacy 800-819-6742. Stay on the zith continuously, and pulse the art/plaquenil [3 weeks on, one week off]
You're still in the acute stage so you have a good chance of kicking this thing. The key will be getting continuous tx until all symptoms are gone for at least two months. Good luck.
Posts: 1632 | From Northern Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2005
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I had a hard enough time convincing my doc to prescribe Doxy, so I think I'll have to use an internet pharmacy if I want to get the other meds. Do you have any suggestions of where I could get cheap zithromax and plaquenil?
Can I take the zithromax, plaquenil and artemisinin along with the doxycycline and fluconazole, or would I need to take these at different times?
What doses would you recommend?
Also, I'm assuming you meant three 3 of artemisinin then 1 week of plaquenil by 3 weeks on, one week off.
Thanks again,
Paul
Posts: 11 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by paul_hest: Can I take the zithromax, plaquenil and artemisinin along with the doxycycline and fluconazole, or would I need to take these at different times?
Personally, I think that's too much! I would do the zith/plaq and art OR doxy .... You could add Diflucan with either, I would think.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by paul_hest: Can I take the zithromax, plaquenil and artemisinin along with the doxycycline and fluconazole, or would I need to take these at different times?
Personally, I think that's too much! I would do the zith/plaq and art OR doxy .... You could add Diflucan with either, I would think.
But does Doxycycline to anything against babesia on its own?
Posts: 11 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2005
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Boomerang
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Member # 7979
posted
Someone mentioned that Paul must be in acute stage....... how can you tell?
Posts: 1366 | From Southeast | Registered: Sep 2005
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NP40
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6711
posted
quote:Originally posted by paul_hest: Hi NP40,
Thanks for your reply.
I had a hard enough time convincing my doc to prescribe Doxy, so I think I'll have to use an internet pharmacy if I want to get the other meds. Do you have any suggestions of where I could get cheap zithromax and plaquenil?
Can I take the zithromax, plaquenil and artemisinin along with the doxycycline and fluconazole, or would I need to take these at different times?
What doses would you recommend?
Also, I'm assuming you meant three 3 of artemisinin then 1 week of plaquenil by 3 weeks on, one week off.
Thanks again,
Paul
For now Paul, I'd stick with what your currently taking. The doxy will kill some lyme as well as taking care of any erlichiosis.
Once your doxy regimen is done then consider the babs treatment.
We did 1000mg of zithromax, 750mg of plaquenil, and 300mg of artemisinin. Art is an herb that comes in capsule form from Organic pharmacy 800-819-6742.
Somewhere here on lymenet [do a search] they have the links to the various pharmaceutical companies that dispense free meds dependent upon income. You may well qualify, however, you'll need a doc to write the scrip, so ultimately you may have to find an LLMD.
DO NOT combine the various treatment methods at one time ! That's far too much medication at once. Treat one infection at one time, and when eradicated move onto the next.
Posts: 1632 | From Northern Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2005
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NP40
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Boomerang: Someone mentioned that Paul must be in acute stage....... how can you tell?
Boomerang,
Paul mentioned that he had been symptomatic for 3 months.
Posts: 1632 | From Northern Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2005
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liz28
Unregistered
posted
If you are going to splurge on an expensive antibiotic, you might want to try some of the stronger ones, although at eight days it's too soon to bother.
Ketek and biaxin are stronger macrolides than zithromax, and minocycline is stronger than doxycycline. Unfortunately, it can also have severe side effects, so it's not always the best choice. But everybody's different, and you may have no problem with it.
Over the past year, the Lyme community has gone through a sea change. A lot of these stronger drugs, when combined with co-infection treatment, control Lyme and its cohorts much better than the old drug combinations used to. But a year is not a long time, and there's a transition taking place between the old and new treatments. The old treatments often weren't as effective overall as the new ones, but they did save people's lives, even if they couldn't get you past a certain point. So no one wants to abandon them yet.
They are helpful if you can't tolerate the stronger stuff, or if you want to fill out a combination treatment with something that won't create a huge drug interaction. But if you are going to spend hundreds of dollars on a treatment, you want to try and get it to work fast.
Try to stick with the doxy/artemisinin for 60-90 days. If you definitely need to move on to the heavier antibiotics, strongly consider insurance. These drugs can run into the tens of thousands of dollars.
Oh, almost forgot. People with Lyme, and especially who are herxing, have severe systemic inflammation. If you can afford it and aren't wary of it, Celebrex can sometimes be helpful. But definitely go to you friendly neighborhood vitamin shop and try two products, L-theanine for inflammation-induced anxiety and bromelain, which a lot of people find helpful for inflammation. And load up on the omegas.
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NP40
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Paul,
Forgot to add this. You mentioned that you didn't have health insurance, so you may qualify for the following med programs through the pharmaceuticals.
There's some excellent meds available here. Zithromax, mepron, malarone, augmentin, etc.
quote:Originally posted by liz28: Try to stick with the doxy/artemisinin for 60-90 days. If you definitely need to move on to the heavier antibiotics, strongly consider insurance. These drugs can run into the tens of thousands of dollars.
Thanks Liz,
Will the Doxy/Art combo do anything for babesiosis, or do I need to add something else to the equation.
Thanks,
Paul
Posts: 11 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2005
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NP40
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
quote:Originally posted by paul_hest:
quote:Originally posted by liz28: Try to stick with the doxy/artemisinin for 60-90 days. If you definitely need to move on to the heavier antibiotics, strongly consider insurance. These drugs can run into the tens of thousands of dollars.
Thanks Liz,
Will the Doxy/Art combo do anything for babesiosis, or do I need to add something else to the equation.
Thanks,
Paul
Paul, you mentioned that your taking......
"I've been on 400mg Doxycycline for 8 days now, and 100mg Fluconazole for 3 days."
Stay with this treatment regimen until completed. Do not add another med to this combo. Supplements are fine, multi-vitamin, magnesium, acidophilus, etc. Most lymies are prescribed doxy initially in case they have erlichiosis. Erlichioisis is serious business in some people.
Once this med regimen is completed then you can move on to other things. Artemisinin is given for babesia treatment. It is used with zithromax and mepron or malarone. Specific meds kill specific bacteria. Taking art by itself without the other proper drugs being administered can actually make babs much, much, harder to treat.
It's common for newbies to want to throw the kitchen sink at their illness immediately to bring relief. It doesn't work that way. Once you do the doxy/fluconozole treatment, see where you stand. If babs symptoms are present you can move on to that type of treatment. DO NOT combine them.
Posts: 1632 | From Northern Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Hi Paul, Everyone has given you excellent ideas here.
Overall I see that you are only 3 mo. symptomatic which helps tremendously because the earlier the treatment, typically the better the recovery. If you are a responder to antibiotics you can expect a few months before you start to feel a day where you feel exceptionally better. Truly this can happen in one month or 5 but as a new infection, the odds are for you.
The reason you take abx like doxy and biaxin (example) is to kill the two forms of lyme bacteria. I was very ill at one point and now work full time as a hairdresser and enjoy hobbies and socializing on my weekends again. It truly took 3 years but I was sick most of my like but in '99 got the babesia. The babesia can be a bad as lyme . . . my LLMD is extrememly well thought of and treated the babs after I'd been on abx for about 3-6 mo. I don't remember exactly which (brain for ya know!)
The other think I notice as an overview is questioning your liver enzymes etc . . . you must be on a detox supplement to take all of these drugs.
Milk Thistle works excellent, I prefer Shaklee because it has tumeric in it and works w/the body. Also, don't forget to keep the balance of flora in your stomach from the antibiotics disturbing it. Acidophillis is a must, also know as Pro-Biotics.
Be careful not to take the milk thistle detox around your abx or vitamins or it will "detox" them right out of your system. I know this gets complicated but truly after you get a schedule going it all becomes routine.
Good luck!
Posts: 982 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2002
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