posted
Hi all, I just got a copy of my bloodwork from my PCP so I can take it to my LLMD to use as a starting point. I am baffled by this ,well, not really, but it ticks me off, no pun intended ;-)
Westren Blot - I show + on IgG bands p18, p23, p45. But the thing that's wacky is they did a Lyme C6 peptide. The result states: < .9 = negative but does not rule out Lyme .91 - 1.09 low level detected, please repeat in 3 - 6 weeks > 1.1 Consistent with Lyme disease in patients with appropriate clinical symptoms.
My C6 Peptide serum reading is currently 1.298. The last one, last October, when I also tested positive on all 5 primary CDC bands via Western Blot, C6 peptide was 1.130.
Doc says I'm negative and that these antibodies are alwasy present after initial infection. I've had at least 4 we know of.
So, then why does the Specialty Labs site say this about this test: Assessment of longitudinal measurements from baseline through at least 6-months after antibiotic treatment with a greater than four-fold decrease in the levels of Borrelia burgdorferi C6 peptide antibody may be suggestive of effective antibiotic therapy for eradication of the Lyme disease spirochete. Philipp MT et al J Infect Dis 2001; 184:870-878, Peltomaa M et al J Infect Dis 2003; 187:1178-1186 AND Philipp MT et al J Clin Microbiol 2003; 41:4955-4960.
That would imply to me that these antibody levels drop considerably after effective treatment. So what the heck's the matter with these people? Do they not read the same literature that we do? The test results even tell them to corroborate diagnosis via test results in combination with assessment of clinical symptoms. Idiots! Or more likely A.M.A. puppets.
Anyway, I'd love to hear some others chime in on this test, if they've had it, what they know, etc. No real reason, I'm going to have the LLMD handle it anyway. But I feel the more I know the better. I did see the two links that someone had posted on some old threads to Specialty labs and one other. That's where I got the info.
Wellness to you all... Kenny
[ 21. October 2005, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: Kenny from PA ]
Posts: 76 | From South Eastern PA | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Anyone? I'm very curious to hear some of my learned Lyme peer's thoughts on this one. Thanks! Kenny
Posts: 76 | From South Eastern PA | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
There's been some published studies by steerites who can't seem to make up their mind whether the C6 test can be used to track disease status. It is almost funny to see their contortions on this subject. When it appeared that the antibody levels stayed high, they declared, well, no we were wrong, high antibodies in a person we have declared is well must be wrong, can't indicate continuing disease. Ha, ha.
I will hunt around for some of these reports, and post them. BTW, you can do this too at the pubmed website. Gives you access to zillions of journal article abstracts, from National Library of Medicine, should you have any interest in researching this kind of thing.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
OK, here is one that says the test can't be used to indicate disease status in "post-Lyme syndrome" which are chronic cases like most of us here:
Pre-treatment and post-treatment assessment of the C(6) test in patients with persistent symptoms and a history of Lyme borreliosis.
Fleming RV, Marques AR, Klempner MS, Schmid CH, Dally LG, Martin DS, Philipp MT.
Department of Medicine, Boston University Medical Center, 650 Albany Street, Room 620, Boston, MA 02118, USA.
It was recently reported that antibody to C(6), a peptide that reproduces an invariable region of the VlsE lipoprotein of Borrelia burgdorferi, declined in titer by a factor of four or more in a significant proportion of patients after successful antibiotic treatment of acute localized or disseminated Lyme borreliosis. The present study evaluated the C(6) test as a predictor of therapy outcome in a population of patients with post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome. The serum specimens tested were from patients with well-documented, previously treated Lyme borreliosis who had persistent musculoskeletal or neurocognitive symptoms. All of the patients had participated in a recent double-blind, placebo-controlled antibiotic trial in which serum samples were collected at baseline and 6 months thereafter, i.show $132#e. 3 months following treatment termination. In this patient population no correlation was found between a decline of C(6) antibody titer of any magnitude and treatment or clinical outcome. Antibodies to C(6) persisted in these patients with post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome following treatment, albeit at a markedly lower prevalence and titer than in untreated patients with acute disseminated Lyme disease. The results indicate that C(6) antibody cannot be used to assess treatment outcome or the presence of active infection in this population.
Publication Types:
* Clinical Trial * Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 15243815 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
And here is one that says C6 does work in people treated at the early stage, no longer having any symptoms. In other words, they are saying it works in cases of early adequate treatment with no continuing symptoms, in that antibodies decline. The paper above says it doesn't work in chronic cases because the antibodies don't decline. Impossible for them to believe chronic cases are continuing infection even when their wonderful test says so.
Makes you wonder how they can say this stuff with a straight face.
Clin Diagn Lab Immunol. 2005 Sep;12(9):1069-74.
A decline in C6 antibody titer occurs in successfully treated patients with culture-confirmed early localized or early disseminated Lyme Borreliosis.
Philipp MT, Wormser GP, Marques AR, Bittker S, Martin DS, Nowakowski J, Dally LG.
Department of Bacteriology and Parasitology, Tulane National Primate Research Center, Tulane University Health Sciences Center, Covington, LA 70433, USA.
C(6), a Borrelia burgdorferi-derived peptide, is used as the antigen in the C(6)-Lyme disease diagnostic test. We assessed retrospectively whether a fourfold decrease or a decrease to a negative value in anti-C(6) antibody titer is positively correlated with a positive response to treatment in a sample of culture-confirmed patients with either early localized (single erythema migrans or early disseminated disease. All of these patients had been treated with antibiotics and were free of disease within 6 to 12 months of follow-up. Results show that a serum specimen taken at this time was either C(6) negative or had a >or=4-fold decrease in C(6) antibody titer with respect to a specimen taken at baseline (or during the early convalescent period if the baseline specimen was C(6) negative) for all of the multiple-EM patients and in 89% of the single-EM patients. These results indicate that a decline in anti-C(6) antibody titer coincides with effective antimicrobial therapy in patients with early localized or early disseminated Lyme borreliosis.
PMID: 16148173
[ 24. October 2005, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: lou ]
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
My last comment is that I believe this antibody test has the same drawbacks as all other antibody tests, and some people who have tested positive by other means and have lyme symptoms still come up negative on the C6. Which means it can be just as unreliable, hit or miss.
In your case, it does find the antibodies for the strains you have, and apparently you are making antibodies, so you got the winning ticket.
And please note, that line you got about the antibodies sticking around for a long time afterwards is true about all antibodies. Which is one problem with these indirect tests that measure antibodies instead of antigen.
But if a person has antibodies and symptoms and clinical history, seems like a reasonable doc would have to admit there was continuing evidence for disease. Camp A (steerites) are not reasonable or honest people.
[ 24. October 2005, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: lou ]
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Hi Lou, Apologies for the delay in responding to your gracious posts. I was on the run all day Sunday.
First, thank you for providing me with such detailed and accurate information. Funny how in each of those detailed arguments they contradict themselves.
I will continue to look into this. I anxiously await hearing the opinions of this LLMD I will see tomorrow. The first one I've ever seen. I'll let you know what he says, especially with regard to this topic.
Thanks again. Peace... Kenny
Posts: 76 | From South Eastern PA | Registered: Sep 2005
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