Jellybelly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7142
posted
I posted yesterday about anxiety as I was experiencing quite a bit the last few days.
I have been taking my basal temps as per my doc for 8 days now. First 4 days it was about 97.0, low I think but not major. Then it dropped to 96.6 and had been preceeded by anxiety/palpitations the evening before. THEN last nite I was feeling somewhat anxious and quite tired. Heart seemed to be fluttering quite a bit. Went to bed a little early and had anxious dreams all nite long.
This morning I was surprised to find my temp at 95.8. Anxiety is really high this morning, feel short of breath and heartrate is about 80, even while on a beta blocker.
Those of you who have experienced thyroid issues, could this all be connected. All of my thyroid labs have been coming back very low normal for a couple of years and my thyroid is swollen for about the same 2 years.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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valymemom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7076
posted
My son who has just been on abx for the past 9 weeks (like me) has very low temp readings just like you and his thyroid testing is low normal.
At our appointment this past Monday our llmd put him on supplements to help the thyroid (sold at her office). He took the two bottles back to his dorm and I did not look at the ingredients.
Maybe someone else is taking this kind of support and can recommend a good product.
Posts: 1240 | From Centreville,VA | Registered: Mar 2005
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
i have had both symptoms for a long time but i don't think they depend on each other-at least in me. i have taken visteril(atarax) for a long time and it also helps with insomnia and frequent urination...i only need a little bit. i have had all kinds of heart tests for my palpitations and chest pain and they are always neg. i take a med for low temp - its sorta 1/2 med 1/2 supp i think. regular docs don't use it-but i need a prescription for it
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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riversinger
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4851
posted
Usually rapid heart rate and palpitations go with hyper thyroid, too much thyroid hormone. But for me, it was just the opposite. My heart issues finally calmed down when I was put on sufficient meds to bring my labs into the mid range, and to suppress my TSH. I'm doing pretty well now on Armour.
lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
yes-armours the one i take. i never heard of anyone on it but me! niether has the pharmacist and other docs. but my llmd was real picky about the dosage-cuz of my test results-and i take 2 pills to get the exact dose he want s me to have. i have trouble seeing it change any symptoms but it does change the numbers on my tests
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I haven't posted for a long time but I want to comment on your symptoms. At one time I was extremely thin, had heart palps on even the slightest activity and had nervous exhaustion. I call it that instead of anxiety because there wasn't any changes in my breathing or specific mental/emotional causes. It was more like feeling so nervous that I wanted to get out of my body. Like I wanted to run but didn't have the energy to walk. Yes I appeared outwardly still.
My TSH was WNL, however my axillary basal temp ran around 96, which according to the Broda Barnes book (Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness) is very low. So although I had symptoms of HYPERthyroid, I was actually HYPOthyroid. I started on Armour Thyroid and my symptoms improved to the point that I eventually went back to work. Many years later I developed a sensitivity to the thyroid and it would cause nervousness and insomnia, leaving me in a pickle about what to do. This is typical for me as I am hypersensitive to drugs and supplements.
So, I would say that if there were no other variables then the thyroid is very likely to be connected to your anxiety. Of course there always are other variables, like the beta blocker. I have now idea how that would figure in.
If your temp is low, your thyroid is swollen and your labs keep coming back low, WHY hasn't the doctor addressed this issue???
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
You need some thyroid treatment, and don't bother with just supplements or homeopathy, they don't work. I'm not sure what the exact treatment is for hyperthyroidism (except for iodine treatment and having the thyroid removed), but hypothyroidism is treated with either synthroid or armour thyroid. Take them on an empty stomach and don't eat grapefruit.
There is also a theory that hypothyroid people shouldn't eat foods such as soy and peanuts and their food family.
If you get tested again, make sure your TSH, T4 Free, and T3 Free are all tested. If the doctor doesn't order all 3, go to another doctor.
As Digby said, nervousness and anxiety can be related to both hypothyroidism as well as hyperthyroidism.
Good luck!
Posts: 449 | From Vermont | Registered: Nov 2004
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Jellybelly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7142
posted
Thank You all for your comments. I do have the low thyroid, low temps, and then add VERY rapid heart rate, 100-120 and anxiety. Like Digby, I also used to be extremely thin, people thought I had anorexia. Started Elavil for sleep about 14 years ago and I no longer look anorexic.
Jacked up thyroids run in my family, both ways. My dad had severe Graves(hyperthyroid)so severe, he had to drink radio active iodine and my daughter has Hashimoto's(hypothroid). I appear to be some of both, if that is possible.
I have recently been put on a beta blocker and it helps quite a bit even with the anxiety. Heart rate dropped to 60, and talk about an adjustment for the body. But about 2 hours before I am to take my next dose, the anxiety starts to return. Just read that beta blockers can reduce anxiety like this in some.
My doc is working on the thyroid issue, and that is why I am doing the 10 day basal temps. Today I was back to 96.6 after yesterdays low. I have been seeing him for about 4 months and he has been working on all kinds of stuff, trying to bring all systmes to a more normal range before hitting the Lyme.
I have been started on several supplements, ramping on each, did a run with Diflucan and had to stop due to severe herxing. Started Cortef for adrenal insufficency, had to ramp up on that, just started Nizorel yesterday to replace the Diflucan. He gave me Klonopin also yesterday for the anxiety.
He believes in one change at a time, and ramping so that we can avoid any adverse reactions and be able to see what is causing what. So the thyroid is coming, when I see him in about 4 weeks. He tends to think that the anxiety is Lyme induced and exacerbated by the stress. He says Lyme is the the most "stress" sensitive illness he has ever seen.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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Lyme disease, whether it was the mental or physical stress of it, caused my thyroid problem, which has been going on for 6-12 months. I was already hypothyroid for over ten years, but had been controlling it easily for the whole time until I got sick.
For the past year (I've been sick for 16 months), I've had tension/anxiety 24/7. I took a lot of adrenal gland supplements for a long time, and that didn't help. I just started taking armour thyroid for the 1st time 1-1/2 weeks ago (had been taking various doses of synthroid before that), so I'm hoping my new treatment will help.
Posts: 449 | From Vermont | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Digby: So although I had symptoms of HYPERthyroid, I was actually HYPOthyroid.
that sounds just like me!! i too have anxiety, continual heart flutter, heart palpitations.i also am thin, & need to eat massive amounts to stop losing weight.(all HYPERthyroid symptoms) so my MD says cant be HYPOthyroid? body temp ranges 96.6 - 97.5 my TSH usually low at 0.3 my T4: LOW about 14.0 my T3: ranges between 2.0 -4.0 (varies every time i get tested)
so do u think i'd benefit from thyroid meds? i'm not on any supplements
i think the weight issue is due to the heart palpitations as i must be getting a cardio without exercising so burn up loads of calories? !
Posts: 47 | From SP | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Jelly, just my 2 cents but as the thyroid is essential to your basic metabolic rate and has wide ranging effects in the body related to other hormones, up and down stream, insulin response, cholesterol levels and more, it is probably a good thing to handle first rather than later. Of course knocking down your spirochete load is really the first order of healing but not usually an easy fix. Hmm, that's a bit obvious isn't it?
Babe, sounds like you need a thyroid specialist. Check out this guy's website. I've been really impressed with his writings:
And Pea, I don't know about peanuts but the connection with soy is well documented. It is considered goitrogenic in high doses. Then again so is the Brassica family of vegetables including cabbage, brussel sprouts, broccoli, etc. I suppose if you had a tendency to hypothyroid and went on a cabbage and soybean diet you could really mess things up!
Anyway thyroid balance can be very complicated si it is worth seeing a specialist if you are having difficulty. There I go being obvious again. Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Thanks for the link Digby. - have you seen this MD in AZ? I've checked out his website - he seems to stress conversion problems & need for both T4 &T3 supplementation. my T scores go up & down all the time - must be the bugs & toxins confusing all my hormones? BUT if you start thyroid supplements dont you need them for life? as can supress the natural thyroid output? Posts: 47 | From SP | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Hey Babe, (Thanks for the opportunity to greet you like that )
I haven't seen that doc but i have spoken to him on the phone. It was quite a few years ago so I'm not up on his current protocols nor do I know what he thinks about Lyme.
I suppose it's possible that you could need thyroid supplementation the rest of your life but the benefits are so dramatic and the risks so low that if it can work for you it would be well worth it.
Also consider that if you get your body functioning better you have a greater chance of fighting the keets and possibly going to full recovery. Should that happen then I would guess that you could get off the thyroid eventually.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
thanks again for advice Digby - u can call me babe anytime!!!
thyroid seems key to lyme - looks like i need to sort mine out - i'm new to lymeworld so still learning!
Posts: 47 | From SP | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Babe, I've been at it for 30 years and still learning. I am so ready to graduate.
There is an interesting study showing that Alpha Lipoic Acid may block the conversion of T4 to T3. It is only one study but worth keeping in mind if you have conversion problems.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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That is interesting about the alpha lipoic acid. I've been taking it for a couple of months, which coincides with my escalating thyroid problems, particularly my T3 Free level.
Someone mentioned in another topic about a month ago that detoxing can cause tension and anxiety.
Maybe I should do another heavy metals test, my levels weren't too high (mercury was borderline acceptable), so that I can stop detoxing.
Thanks.
Posts: 449 | From Vermont | Registered: Nov 2004
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