I have a problem and desperately need your help... I obviously got infected 3 years ago when I was living in North America. Although I didn't recognize a tick bite these days, I suddenly fell ill with high fever, chills, headache, and myalgias, abdominal pain and diarrhea. However, I first thought it was a serious flue, stayed in bed until it became better and went on with my life as before.
Shortly after, I moved back to Germany. Yet, since the sickness in North America, I never fully recovered. In short, I have been suffering of the well-known symptoms of Lyme disease plus a weaker form of the symptoms of ehrlichosis (human anaplasmosis) described above (mainly chills, fatigue, fever, abdominal problems -up to serious colitis). Yet, it took the German doctors three years to run a test on tick-born diseases and to finally serologically find out that I was infected by Lyme disease and ehrlichosis (human anaplasmosis).
I came here to find other patients that are simulatenously affected by Lyme disease and ehrlichiosis (human anaplasmosis) and that only found out about it long after the infection.
Lyme disease plus Ehrlichosis (Human Anaplasmosis) is a very rare combination over here in Western Europe and there is few experience on how to treat such a kind of patients. Hence, I would be very grateful for advice, hints and experience you could share with me on the symptoms, treatment and chances of success.
Thanks a lot Hans
Posts: 29 | From New York City | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Okey doke. Never know whether people are totally new or just new to this forum.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I was diagnosed with erlichiosis (blood test from Lab Corp) a year ago and with lyme (blood test from Igenex)last Feb. I have been symptomatic for 33 years.
My LLMD did not dx ehrlichiosis but he did the lyme. A local dr. dx ehrlichiosis but only treated it for 2 weeks with Doxy.
My LLMD's protocol is aimed at all co-infections as well as Lyme. He feels that the odds are very high that you will have at least one or more co-infections so he treats them all but not at the same time of course.
It is my understanding that Doxy treats Lyme and Ehrlichiosis.
I have been in tx for 9 months and have seen some improvement. I have defintely had this for 33 years. You can e-mail me if you would like to discuss this any further.
Hope this helps you.
Posts: 74 | From MS | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I often read that so far, there are not known any cases of chronical ehrlichiosis and all treatement proposals only target at the early stage infection.
Marks, your case shows that I am not the only one not discovering ehrlichiosis shortly after being infected, but years later. Yet, how shall we be treated - are there any regimens that turn out to be helpful? How are the chances of completely getting rid of it (when also Lyme is present)?
Posts: 29 | From New York City | Registered: Nov 2005
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caat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 2321
posted
Hans,
Usually doxycycline alone will take care of the Erlichiosis. It depends on how serious it is as to how they treat it. A normal doctor here who does not have any experience will treat for 2 weeks. But a long lasting infection would probley take longer. A serious life threatening infection would probley involve IV antibiotics and supportive IVs.
It is hard to answer this as most of us who are treated for both by doctors with experience will be treated with doxy for at least a month and sometimes several months before moving on to other antibiotics. Usually our docs are focused on lyme, not erlichiosis and the initial lyme treatment of doxycycline is seen as having a side effect of treating any erlichiosis.
Erlichiosis is considered to be much easier to treat than lyme for most people. I think I had it too and I think the doxycycline got rid of it. I can't tell you how long it took as I also had lyme and went through a bad lyme herx for 4 or 5 months upon starting treatment. It was hard to tell what was going on.
*If* there is bone involvement with erlichiosis I would personally guess that it might take 3 or 4 months or more of high dose doxy. I am not a doctor and I am only basing this on having read infectious disease manuals on other diseases involving the bone. Bone infections take longer to treat no matter what the organism is. But I could be wrong on this- it's possible erlichia is usually much easier to get rid of.
There have been cases of resistant erlichiosis in which case they use a combination of doxycycline and rifampin. I don't think it's common. You have a very good chance of getting rid of it.
Posts: 1436 | From Humboldt county ca usa | Registered: Mar 2002
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thanks - what you describe from your experience is pretty much what I am told by my LLMD. I had 6 weeks of doxy, but don't feel any better, probably even worse than before I took the ABx :-(.
Posts: 29 | From New York City | Registered: Nov 2005
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5dana8
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Member # 7935
posted
Hans: How long since you stopped you ABX? Could you still be herxing? I have heard alot of people say it takes your system a long time to dump the toxins killed off by the die off.I did a search of de-toxing and found alot of helpful information.
Are you taking pro-biotics? Muliti strains and probiotics with the billion count.? I take 8 a day and space out two hours from ABX.
This is so important because the ABX can wipe out your friendly flora and you get a yeast problem.The yeast symptoms are very close to that of lyme.Also a no sugar on carb diet helps.
How high a dose of doxy where you one? It takes at least 300-600 to penetrate the blood brain barrier.
I have heard many times LLD's say treat till all symptoms are gone then a maintance dose for follow-up.
Sorry if I am posting info you have heard already.
Take care dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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it's better to have double information than no information at all ;-)
Well I had 400mg per day for 6 weeks, so that shall do. And of course, I supported my digestion with a lot of probiotics. Still, I got yeast overgrowth, which I am fighting now with Diflucan. Hence, I got a Herx from the dying candida on top of remainign Herx from dying borrelia :-( However, my body's reaction proved that my doctor is prescribing me the right thing. However, all in all I cannot say whether the first period of ABx was successful or not. I will have my blood tested early next year.
What about you? Did you get rid of your co-infections?
Posts: 29 | From New York City | Registered: Nov 2005
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Hans; Hi This is what I have heard and my own personal experience That after treatment with ABX you can never know weather you killed all of them.
Sometimes the ABX forces them deeper into the tissues and organs.IE: They are no longer swimming in your blood stream and the tests are even more unreliable.
I am not a firm beleiver in testing afterwards and if the test is clear you no longer have LD.This is BS. This happened to me several times.
I am going to ask my LLD in Jan to re-treat with mepron.AS I had only one month of this.
Did you pulse any flagel or tinamax? I have had lyme a long time and this is why I think my treatment is stubborn because I have had so much ABX and the cystic forms are harder for me to get rid of.
I am not a doctor just my own personal experience.
Good luck dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Now a number of years ago, I had a severe case of Ehrlichiosis, besides other co-infections. I was treated for 2 1/2 month with IV Rocephin followed by a variety of different treatments such as discussed in "Lyme Disease: A look Beyond Antibiotics". Over several years I had only brief periods of abx - 2-3 weeks at a time. I never took doxy.
The rest of my treatment to arrive at my cure was per Dr. K's article, a similar one published in Germany, in German. It takes a multiple approach to cure Lyme.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Gigi, could you please give me a link to this article?
Posts: 29 | From New York City | Registered: Nov 2005
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riversinger
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4851
posted
Hi Hans,
I was diagnosed with Lyme disease 11 years after showing classic signs of acute Lyme and Erlichiosis. I took five months of high dose doxy. Seven months after that, I tested positive to HME. I had not been tested prior to this, due to expense, but I don't believe I had a chance of being reinfected. I think I have had the infection all that time.
My doctor has never focused on it much. I haven't pushed, because I am now taking meds that may go after it, and I have other infections that I am still focusing on, myself. I have, in addition to the Lyme, Bartonella, Ehrlichia, Mold issues, and a Staph colonization that is resistent to many antibiotics. I find it hard to figure out which infection might be causing which sx, so I don't know if I can help you there.
However, I will say that working my way through the various treatments, I am doing much better now than even six months ago. I believe that once your body becomes home to some of these chronic infections, you really have to unwind a complex maze to find health. My treatment has been very different than Gigi's but I agree that a multiple approach that looks carefully at the patient is required.
Here are a couple of studies you might find interesting.
Evaluation of Antibiotic Susceptibilities of Ehrlichia canis, Ehrlichia chaffeensis, and Anaplasma phagocytophilum by Real-Time PCR.
Branger S, Rolain JM, Raoult D. Unite des Rickettsies, CNRS UMR 6020A, Faculte de Medecine, 27 boulevard Jean Moulin, 13385 Marseille cedex 5, France. [email protected].
We determined MICs of antibiotics against Anaplasma phagocytophilum, Ehrlichia chaffeensis, and Ehrlichia canis by real-time quantitative PCR. The doubling times of the organisms were established: 19 h for E. chaffeensis, 26 h for A. phagocytophilum, and 28 h for E. canis. In comparison to the reference method for determining sensitivities, which uses Diff-Quick staining, our PCR assay was very sensitive and specific. We confirmed that doxycycline and rifampin are highly active against these bacteria and found variable susceptibilities to fluoroquinolones; A. phagocytophilum was susceptible, but E. canis and E. chaffeensis were only partly susceptible. beta-Lactam compounds, cotrimoxazole, macrolide compounds, and telithromycin showed no activity against any of the three organisms. Thiamphenicol was found to be more active than chloramphenicol.
For the first time, we showed that these three species have numerous point mutations in their 23S RNA genes, with those at positions 754, 2057, 2058, 2059, and 2611 (Escherichia coli numbering) known to confer resistance to macrolide compounds in other bacteria. The role of each of these mutations in resistance to these drugs should be investigated in the future. Our study confirms previous reports that quantitative PCR is a reliable method for determining antibiotic susceptibility; therefore, it might be useful for screening new drugs.
1: Clin Infect Dis. 1993 Nov;17(5):903-5.
Persistent infection with Ehrlichia chaffeensis.
Dumler JS, Sutker WL, Walker DH.
Department of Pathology, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston.
Although persistent infection of animals by members of the genus Ehrlichia is well known and may be associated with subsequent severe or fatal illness, persistent infection of humans with Ehrlichia chaffeensis has not been reported. Herein we report a typical case of serologically documented acute ehrlichiosis; despite therapy with tetracycline and chloramphenicol, the patient's condition progressively worsened and he suffered multiple secondary infections and gastrointestinal hemorrhage. He died 68 days after his initial hospitalization. Retrospective immunohistologic examination of both acute-phase bone marrow specimens (obtained day 12 of illness) and postmortem liver tissue specimens (obtained day 68 after onset of disease) revealed E. chaffeensis morulae in mononuclear cells, presumably macrophages and monocytes. Findings of this case provide the first definitive evidence that E. chaffeensis is capable of establishing persistent human infection and suggest a role for this obligate intracellular bacterium in the induction of immune compromise associated with a fatal outcome.
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