posted
Any comments. I have a freezer full of deer meat. Steaks, sausage and ground meat.
Posts: 146 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jun 2005
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robi
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posted
Frozen spirochetes? I doubt they'd live .... but lets say this ..... I ain't takin' nooooooo chances.
Who wants to start ths hell over again? Not I!!!
Just me, robi
-------------------- Now, since I put reality on the back burner, my days are jam-packed and fun-filled. ..........lily tomlin as 'trudy' Posts: 2503 | From here | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Just make sure that you cook it medium well done, no medium rare. Same thing for buffalo. It has a tendency to be infected with Brucella. I will still eat the stuff, but I check the internal temp with a meat thermometer (160). These bugs can't survive anything above 140.* Most freezers don't get cold enough to kill the bacteria. I am just as carefull with beef. I don't take chances on any meat any more. It might be tough, but it will be safe.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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Carol in PA
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posted
Coach, Deer in New York State have tested positive for chronic wasting disease, which is similar to Mad Cow disease.
You can't kill the prions that cause the disease. When people get this disease, it's called Creutzefeldt-Jakob disease, and may take twenty to forty years to destroy the brain tissue.
posted
If it was somewhere besides the East Coast, I'd feel safer about eating it. I've eaten venison for years, but then look where I am!!
One thing I absolutely would NOT do is make jerky from it. My brother-in-law makes it every year. I won't touch it.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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groovy2
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posted
Hi coach
I have wondered if there might be some type of vacine type of effect from eating wild game meat? I talked to a lady from up north who said he husband was a hunter and they eat wild game all the time--she said her husband was picking bunches of ticks off every week --and he was ok-
Never has gotten sick--
It seams like Indians and early settlers would have been wiped out by lyme and babs ect. if they did not have some type of resistance to these grems--
They had to have ticks on them all the time--
The thought of plowing a field or fetching water--theres no way I could do anything like that being as sick as I am
I guess I would be one dead hillbilly-Jay--
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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treepatrol
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posted
Just Cook it Well Done, Handling wash hands real good use a little clorox mixed half water then rinse well. Or use rubber gloves just in case.
I can ours that way it kills everything useing pressure cooker.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
Groovy brings up a question I've wondered many times.
How did the Native Amercians stay so healthy? Has Lyme really been around forever and if so, did people get sick from it? My understanding is prior to the industrial revolution chronic illness was rare, people sorta got acute infections and either died from it or lived with a stronger immune system.
I eat all of my meat rare, except for Steak Tartare, which is of course raw, and I buy exclusively grass-fed and/or organic beef, bison, and lamb. Where is the evidence that (a) said meats can be infected with Bb, (b) such infection can be transmitted to human via consumption of infected meats, and (c) heating the meat to standard cooking temperatures effectively destroys the Bb and makes the meat "safe."
I eat a whole lot of grass-fed red meat because it's the best food for my Lyme symptoms. Why I don't totally understand, but whatever the reason, it works, especially when I cook it a minimal amount of time. Anyone else find this?
Posts: 45 | From Pittsburgh, PA | Registered: Nov 2005
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treepatrol
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Big B: Groovy brings up a question I've wondered many times.
How did the Native Amercians stay so healthy? Has Lyme really been around forever and if so, did people get sick from it? My understanding is prior to the industrial revolution chronic illness was rare, people sorta got acute infections and either died from it or lived with a stronger immune system.
I eat all of my meat rare, except for Steak Tartare, which is of course raw, and I buy exclusively grass-fed and/or organic beef, bison, and lamb. Where is the evidence that (a) said meats can be infected with Bb, (b) such infection can be transmitted to human via consumption of infected meats, and (c) heating the meat to standard cooking temperatures effectively destroys the Bb and makes the meat "safe."
I eat a whole lot of grass-fed red meat because it's the best food for my Lyme symptoms. Why I don't totally understand, but whatever the reason, it works, especially when I cook it a minimal amount of time. Anyone else find this?
In my Opinion The lyme we are dealing with is not the same germ I think it has been messed with.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
robi
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posted
I agree with Tree. The lyme bacteria has been changed by the government.
Additionally, with global warming, we have changes in the environment that effect the levels of bacteria. The entire ecosystem has been thrown off and things that used to exist in small amounts have now been allowed to proliferate.
robi
-------------------- Now, since I put reality on the back burner, my days are jam-packed and fun-filled. ..........lily tomlin as 'trudy' Posts: 2503 | From here | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I have no opinion about the safety of eating deer meat but I do have a comment about "Native Americans" being so healthy.
Its an interesting theory about eating deer meat could provide some sort of protection from lyme. Its has a certain natural logic to it. We all use to eat deer until Walt Disney made "Bambi" and we then saw deer as cute.
Thinking native americans were healthy and never got lyme d. is just conjecture. Life spans were much shorter and we have no recorded data on what killed each and everyone of them. Even if we did lyme affects everyone so differently that it could be attrubuted to a zillion different causes.
Remember all those old novels everyone died of consumption. That was the common diagnosis for "we dont know whats wrong with them"
Posts: 561 | From connecticut | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by sofy: Remember all those old novels everyone died of consumption. That was the common diagnosis for "we dont know whats wrong with them"
Always wondered what consumption was! Now I know!
I think one of the big problems for us modern-day folks is the DIET we eat! Our immune systems can't handle anything, much less Lyme.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
"A dermal route of entry into the host appears to be important for the development of disease.
Spirochetes administered intravenously are rapidly and effectively cleared by Kupffer cells in the liver (10), whereas those inoculated intradermally consistently establish infection (11).
Perhaps the initial dermal colonization allows the organism to adapt to in vivo conditions before blood stream dissemination."
Posts: 294 | From nevada | Registered: Sep 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
quote:Originally posted by welcome: "A dermal route of entry into the host appears to be important for the development of disease.
Spirochetes administered intravenously are rapidly and effectively cleared by Kupffer cells in the liver (10), whereas those inoculated intradermally consistently establish infection (11).
Perhaps the initial dermal colonization allows the organism to adapt to in vivo conditions before blood stream dissemination."
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Linda LD
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6663
posted
I remember as a kid my grandpaents talking about people up in the mountains dieing of "sleeping disease." The doctors couldn't help them.
Think about the stereotype of hillbillies, lazy people laying around the porch with the dogs...people died in their 40s--especially the women were always dieing in childbirth. I didn't get this really bad until I was 40....
L
Posts: 1171 | From Knoxville, TN US | Registered: Dec 2004
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lymemomtooo
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posted
THis is a very interesting post for me..Many here hunt and my husband is often offered some meat..I have never used it..
I am not a history expert but I help to run a small museum so it is an interest..I know that many Native Americans had short lives..They think many near here died from poisons from using bowls that may have contanined hazardous ingredients.
They also were in good physical shape and probably due to a healthier diet, would have a stong immune system. The weak would die young..But they may have also had some natural remedies that helped that we do not know about.
Throw in Plum Island and the recent acknowledgement from the NIH about bio warfare and it is obvious that the strains most likely are altered from the day of the Indians.
I would think that the scientists doing this "new" research must have some cures or they would be in danger..
My personal vote for eating the meat would be no..But properly cooked it might be safe..I just would never take a chance..lymemomtooo
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Just my 2 cents...I would forego the venison in the interest of due caution. Prion diseases (such as chronic wasting disease carried by deer) are not killed by heat or cooking, and in fact surgical instruments used on a person infected with Creutzfeld Jakob are never used again as they cannot be disinfected. I know some men who are conducting research on prions and CJD, and the chronic wasting disease carried by deer is definitely a prion disease related to CJD. Perhaps err on the side of caution? Just my humble opinion.
Posts: 393 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
We have a freezer full of venison also...... my family is big in hunting. I always make sure it's cooked it well done. After reading your comments.... it makes a person wondered ?
Mom
Posts: 12 | From Fremont, Wisconsin | Registered: Oct 2005
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TickMomPA
Unregistered
posted
CWD is an animal disease, it's never been shown to effect humans. The NY deer that tested positive are from a fenced in commercial deer farm, not from the wild herd.
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Carol in PA
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TickMomPA: The deer that tested postive for chronic wasting were on a commercial deer farm. However, some of those deer got out, mixing with the wild population.
And subsequent testing showed several wild deer in the area had chronic wasting.
A while back, I read info about several deer hunters in the upper Midwest who died of Creutzefeldt-Jakob.
They haven't had any luck trying to contain the disease in the west and upper midwest, so I surmise that it will spread down into PA from New York state.
Carol
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Well for starters, Native Americans did not sit in front of the computer all day and take in radiation like we do.
The Native Americans also ate very healthy, and led healthy lifestyle, which led to a stronger immune system.
But then again, whole tribes would get wiped out by infectious disease when they would come across other tribes, or settlers for that matter. They would bring infectious disease from Europe (that the Europeans were immune from), and sadly would wipe out whole Native American tribes since they were not immune to diseases like Smallpox.
The same thing would happen in the 20's when scientists would discover tribes in the Amazon, the tribes would be hurt by being exposed to infections they were not immune to.
Also, Native Americans would warn explorers about 'the curse in the hills'. That curse is known today as Rocky Mountain Fever.
Even then, Native Americans were not immune to everything.
Also, Lyme has been reported in Europe as far back as the 1800's, before they knew what caused Lyme, they knew some type of a bacterial infection was hurting cattle in England.
I would not be surprised if "Mad Cow" is not caused by Prions (there is NO proof to this day that Prions cause Mad Cow), but caused by a combination of Lyme, pesticides and other infections.
There is a great deal of controversy about what causes Mad Cow, from Prions, to a virus, a bacteria and even a good deal of scientists think it's from cattle eating pesticides.
Pesticide poisoning can cause similar symptoms in people.
I personally thing Mad Cow is not from one thing. It's the same reason why more people are getting Lyme, it's usually a multi-faceted disease stemming from our ever increasing toxic environment and bad lifestyles.
I don't think more people are getting infected at any higher rate, I think the Lyme is just 'coming out of the woodwork'. I think we have been carriers of Lyme since we were on this earth.
quote:Originally posted by Big B: Groovy brings up a question I've wondered many times.
How did the Native Americans stay so healthy? Has Lyme really been around forever and if so, did people get sick from it? My understanding is prior to the industrial revolution chronic illness was rare, people sorta got acute infections and either died from it or lived with a stronger immune system.
I eat all of my meat rare, except for Steak Tartare, which is of course raw, and I buy exclusively grass-fed and/or organic beef, bison, and lamb. Where is the evidence that (a) said meats can be infected with Bb, (b) such infection can be transmitted to human via consumption of infected meats, and (c) heating the meat to standard cooking temperatures effectively destroys the Bb and makes the meat "safe."
I eat a whole lot of grass-fed red meat because it's the best food for my Lyme symptoms. Why I don't totally understand, but whatever the reason, it works, especially when I cook it a minimal amount of time. Anyone else find this?
posted
Actually we do know that BSE (bovine spongiform encephalopathy), or "mad cow disease" is caused by a prion, and prions were isolated in brain tissue of infected cows. What we CAN'T do right now is screen people for early stage disease. There is a lot of research going on right now to find a blood biomarker for prion infection, so that our blood supply can be screened for infection. A good website if you are interested in more information: http://www.fda.gov/oc/opacom/hottopics/bse.html
Also, a cluster of hunters in Wisconsin died from CJD. Concurrently, clusters of deer were dying from CWD in Wisconsin. The causal link has not been made because of the extremely long latency, but as for me...this health professional is playing it safe and avoiding venison! I have enough neuro stuff going on with borrelia, thank you very much!
Posts: 393 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Cave76...yep, just my opinion! This is one of those things that you have to sort of do your own risk analysis and decide just how cautious you personally want to be. It is true that the risk is probably very small (maybe very very small) but the uncertainty is enough for me to push back from the table! I'm also not a big fan of venison, so the cost/benefit is easy for me to calculate! (even in my pea soup brain fog) Thanks!
Posts: 393 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Just because you isolate a prion in the brain does not mean it's the causative agent. Just like people with MS usually have higher concentrations on EBV virus in neurological tissues does not mean EBV causes MS.
This link to a very good article is something that a good deal of scientists in the community believe in. I am not saying one explanation is wrong, and all of the other explanations are right, but I am saying that making a statement that Mad Cow is caused by prions is kind of a blanket statement.
It's like saying there is one cause for Cancer, and there is one cure for it. That would be a blanket statement.
Like I said before, I personally believe it's caused by a multitude of things, and I personally don't feel prions are the main force behind this.
It's a long winded article, but a good one nonetheless.
quote:Originally posted by docjen: Actually we do know that BSE (bovine spongiform encephalopathy), or "mad cow disease" is caused by a prion, and prions were isolated in brain tissue of infected cows. What we CAN'T do right now is screen people for early stage disease. There is a lot of research going on right now to find a blood biomarker for prion infection, so that our blood supply can be screened for infection. A good website if you are interested in more information: http://www.fda.gov/oc/opacom/hottopics/bse.html
Also, a cluster of hunters in Wisconsin died from CJD. Concurrently, clusters of deer were dying from CWD in Wisconsin. The causal link has not been made because of the extremely long latency, but as for me...this health professional is playing it safe and avoiding venison! I have enough neuro stuff going on with borrelia, thank you very much!
posted
You are making me hungry for venison stew and bison meat all of you! Argh! I approve of all the hunting! How do you all feel about eating elk, caribou, and moose?
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posted
For more info go to www.maddeer.org and read the Milwaukee Magazine article, "The Killer Among Us" if it is still up on their site.
I don't believe there is always a "long latency" before symptoms of CJD appear. CJD is CWD in humans from prions which are the most deadly of all organisms. They cannot be killed with heat or freezing. Very few scientists experiment with prions as they are so deadly. Some have already died doing this work.
I no longer eat venison. I live in Wisconsin where CWD deer have been found. Road kill deer are no longer picked up where I live not due to a shortage of funds, but to the total lack of a place for disposal. No place is safe for the disposal of prion infected CWD deer.
Posts: 422 | From Luck home | Registered: Sep 2005
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groovy2
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posted
Im not into hunting but I wacked a rat with my pelet gun last night--
Then I remembered this discusion- and just for a second I thought-- that lyme-Babs carring sum ***** would make 2 perty good size Burritos -- --Jay--
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Nancy2
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posted
After going through all of this Lyme business, I don't want to even look at a deer, never mind eat it! I don't even like "Bambi" anymore! Nancy
Posts: 1487 | From New England | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I would bet most, if not all of us have ingested prions from eating meat, or whatever. I already had one LLMD and another doctor tell me that we eat them pretty much every day.
Can you tell me how Prion infected cows that have been exported to areas that don't have mad cow (that are butchered and put into the food supply), don't spread mad cow?
Considering scientists don't know where they come from, or don't even know how they infect the host, for me to say something silly like, maybe prions are a by-product of an infection would not be to far out of line?
Look, Prions have been with us longer than we know. And if they were _that_ deadly, and _that_ infectious, we would not be here now, since there is no 'cure' from it.
Hyper deadly infections usually 'burn out' as time goes on (that's why biowarfare usually does not work), it's self limiting because it usually kills off the population to the point where it can't spread.
Lyme on the other hand does not kill so quickly for the most of us, and most people don't get sick from it. That's why it's still with us, it has a chance to spread. A smart pathogen learns not to kill the host so quickly, just like smart humans will not kill our earth so quickly if we want to be around for the next 200 years.
I am only saying this about Prions, because the way the mainstream news and media say, it's super contagious, impossible to kill or cure, and it's a death sentence.
Again, if that was the case, people would have been dying in rows, and we would not have overpopulation issues on this earth IMO.
I would be more worried about other effects of eating too much red meat, like heart disease and waste that comes from raising cows. You spend more energy raising a cow than what a human gets out of it, nutritionally speaking.
quote:Originally posted by mjo: For more info go to www.maddeer.org and read the Milwaukee Magazine article, "The Killer Among Us" if it is still up on their site.
I don't believe there is always a "long latency" before symptoms of CJD appear. CJD is CWD in humans from prions which are the most deadly of all organisms. They cannot be killed with heat or freezing. Very few scientists experiment with prions as they are so deadly. Some have already died doing this work.
I no longer eat venison. I live in Wisconsin where CWD deer have been found. Road kill deer are no longer picked up where I live not due to a shortage of funds, but to the total lack of a place for disposal. No place is safe for the disposal of prion infected CWD deer.
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