posted
Anyone know much about the q-RiBbs test by Bowen Labs in FL? I've heard it's super-accurate since it tests for presence of Bb, rather than antibodies, and I had it done, I'm just wondering . . .
It's part of a research program and the FDA hasn't approved it, which doesn't mean much since the FDA approved Vioxx and all manner of treatments that shouldn't have been approved. Still, it seems that everyone I've talked to (which amounts to a whopping 6 people) either come down on the test as being a joke or else it's the greatest thing since Centrum.
And we all know how THAT turned out . . .
Posts: 45 | From Pittsburgh, PA | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Quite frankly, the Bowen test is the definitive test for Borrelia infection. They also screen for Erlichia and Babesia. The mechanics involoved are impeccable. Screw the FDA.
However, since statistics are quickly proving that a LARGE percent of the population is carrying the Borrelia pathogen asymptomatically (which is why I believe the CDC insists that Lyme is a clinical diagnoses, and promotes highly ineffective tests for Lyme), it would be wise to test with Igenex too.
Ultimately someone will offer a cost effective reverse culture test which is the benchmark for a bacterial infection.
riversinger
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posted
Bowen tests for Borrelia species , not specifically for Borrelia burgdorferi. Ask them, but you have to pin them down to get an answer. That is why everyone tests positive. So it is useful if you have to have a positive test, but not so useful to tell if you have Borrelia b, the agent of Lyme.
quote:Originally posted by riversinger: Bowen tests for Borrelia species , not specifically for Borrelia burgdorferi. Ask them, but you have to pin them down to get an answer. That is why everyone tests positive. So it is useful if you have to have a positive test, but not so useful to tell if you have Borrelia b, the agent of Lyme.
Au contraire mon ami.....The Bowen Patent and my test results clearly indicate that the test is specifically for Borrelia Burgdorferi. If they told you that the test is for all Borrelia species, then I would assume that means that the test for BB also works for the others.
Posts: 294 | From nevada | Registered: Sep 2005
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riversinger
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Dr. Lida Mattman, under questioning by a number of doctors at the San Francisco Lyme conference, which I attended and have a recording of, stated very specifically that the test is for Borrelia species. Not Bb only.
Patents can say whatever they want. They are not scientific proof.
quote:Originally posted by riversinger: Dr. Lida Mattman, under questioning by a number of doctors at the San Francisco Lyme conference, which I attended and have a recording of, stated very specifically that the test is for Borrelia species. Not Bb only.
Patents can say whatever they want. They are not scientific proof.
Unfortunately Dr. Mattman, althoug a great Dr. in her own right, is not the inventor of the test, and was probably misunderstood.
But let's assume for the sake of argument that the "dye" used in the test is absorbed by the 20 or so Borrelia species. To my knowledge all Borrelias are infective pathogens.
It would be arrogant to assume that we have identified all the infectious pathogens assailing us. Therefore, this test may be even more imortant then I originally thought, by being able to identify any Borrelia species infection, even Borrelia just or not yet identified (see Borrelia davisii).
At the very least one would know that they're carrying a stealth pathogen and be able tact accordingly.
Posts: 294 | From nevada | Registered: Sep 2005
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You two seem to be talking around each other.
"Not Bb only." It seems to me the Bowen test is for all species of B, which includes b.
Posts: 219 | From Aubur,Al. USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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riversinger
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Yes, Troup, it does include Bb. But it is possible to be positive and not have Bb. That is the point. Not all species of Borrelia are known to be pathogenic. And finally, if EVERYONE is infected, why bother to test?
It is easy enough to check this out. Ask Bowen Labs specifically.
posted
I have heard there is some controversy about the Bowen test among LLMDs. My LLMD, whom I trust greatly, doesn't use the test. She told me that the results havent been reproduced independently. However, she is very agressive with Lyme and will diagnose clinically despite what the tests say. A couple years ago, I read a paper from Bowen that said that *all* of their tests to date had been positive, as some level of dilution. I corresponded by email with someone at the lab, asking about that, and the reply I received was that they believe it is "endemic" in the population. Even newborn babies they were testing were showing positive. Well, maybe it is endemic and everybody has it in some latent or non-latent form. But if that's the case, then, to echo Riversinger, what use is the test diagnostically ? Has anyone out there ever received a *negative* Bowen test or know of someonw who has ?
Posts: 67 | From Fredericksburg, VA USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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As of this writing, the Bradford Research Institute/Ingles Hospital has 100% confirmation between Lyme morphology obtained utilizing the Bradford High Resolution Microscope and the Bowen fluorescent antibody test, 36 patients with positive correlation and 3 controls with negative correlation.
posted
In response to the question, " Has anyone out there tested negative with the Bowen test". Yes, they have, and one of them was a patient of Dr. Trevor Marshall, of the Marshall Protocol.
The problem with the Bowen test is doctors don't have the microbiology background or they don't want to take the time to learn about the test. The test isn't looking for Bb in its spirochetal form, it detects it in its Cell Wall Deficient form - called the L-form. The antibody used to detect the antigen Bb in the blood is specific for Bb. Dr.Whitaker developer of the Bowen Q-RIBb test has had vast experience over the last 50 years in using the technique she adapted to identifing the Lyme bacteria. The same technique is used for identifing E-coli and TB. If you discount the Bowen test you would have to discount many of these other test using this method. If you understand the test and the science behind it you would be hard pressed to say it isn't accurate.
Dr. Lida Mattman, who was nominated for a Nobel Prize for her work with STEALTH PATHOGENS - Cell Wall Deficient Bacteria did the original duplication test required for the test before it could be offered to protocol physicians to order. Dr.Mattman also is the author of the textbook, STEALTH PATHOGENS, presently in its 3rd edition. Digital photos taken thru a darkfield microscopy of the L-form of Bb are in the textbook and are noted to be the contributions from Dr. Whitaker.
There is much they still don't know about these stealth pathogens, and from what I understand from my conversation with Dr. Mattman.... Borrelia is the name of a group of bacteria, of which there are many species, over 300. Borreliosis is the name of the disease caused by infection with these bacteria. Lyme disease has a narrower definition and can only be caused by 3 strains of Borrelia. The terminology used to define infections caused by Borrelia are not clearly defined. Lyme disease and Borreliosis are often wrongly used interchangeably in the literature and sometimes the terms Lyme Borreliosis and Neuroborreliosis are used.
Read the explanation for the Bowen Q-RIBb test and co-infections and learn about the test and then share the information with your LLMDs. A 'clinical' diagnosis is good, but I guarantee you no matter what a doctor says, the majority of them want to see a positive test result for Lyme and co-infections before they treat a patient.
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