posted
I am wondering how MANY of you out there are using herbs in the treatment of Lyme, with and/or without antibiotics?
I haven't been able to get my family doctor to prescribe or give me any antibiotics yet, and he hasn't called me like he said he would when I visited him last Monday.
So I am sitting here in a quandry. Lymetoo told me that SOME are using herbs AFTER using antibiotics, but didn't say how many. Is it a minority? IF you have, did it help?
In waiting for my doc to do something, I have started taking Cats Claw, Devils Claw and Smilax. The Devils Claw made me feel somewhat nausuated, especially at first, and lots of gas; but after taking two pills total, 4 days apart, MOST of the pain in my knee tendons had disappeared, (I could hardly get up without help from a chair), and my VISION had improved tremendously from the way it had deteriorated to. I don't know IF the Cats Claw or Smilax has done any good yet, or not, as I didn't notice any difference from them. I am waiting for the Japanese Knotweed and the Andrographis to come from California. They are very important according to S. Buhners book on Healing Lyme.
He does recommend using antibiotics WITH the herbs. But also states that the herbs will also help those that do not respond to or relapse after antibiotic treatment.
I believe I have had the Lyme for a little over 6 years; but haven't had the money for testing as yet. And early antibiotic treatment for 24 days with Cipro seemed to help a lot. (Five months after the red target). My family doctor said (as did his nurse), that Lyme is cured with antibiotics in 21 days. So I don't think HE will go beyond that. He said HIS own Lyme was cured with the 21 day regime, twice.
I am not sure WHAT to do on this. My wife of 4 years, will not disclose to me or anyone what her savings, etc., were before we got married, so I can't complete forms to get help from the Medical Clinic for treatment that I go to. So kind of caught between that proverbial rock and a hard place till next July when I will be 65 and should be able to get medicare. But my symptoms have gotten so bad in the past few months that I can't do much of anything but try to exist.
Nal
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6801
posted
Normally a regular dr (family dr, etc) will not take Lyme seriously. They all tend to follow the standard that Lyme is treated with a month or two of antibiotics and thats it. You NEED to see an LLMD-period and no way around it.
Yes, you can take antibiotics with herbs and such but you have to make sure there are no interactions and such with what you are taking so you need to be careful. Some have had good results with TOA free Cats Claw. Others here have taken other herbs and good results as well.
Nancy
-------------------- Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!
-Chuck Swindoll Posts: 1594 | From Colorado | Registered: Jan 2005
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Jim Bayliss
Unregistered
posted
Thanks for the info Nancy. However, now I am a little bit confused on the Cats Claw, as I read that in actuality the Cats Claw WITH TOA is BETTER for you than the TOA free. Is this a big controversy. I will have to go back to the Healing Lyme book and see what HE has to say about it. I have been reading so much lately it is hard to keep it all straight. JIM
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Just be careful self treating with powerful herbs that have not been tested (Buhner is very smart and recommends them but did not treat anybody and there is no data in from naturopaths yet). They could interact in unknown ways.
You can order generic antibiotics on the internet I believe...without an Rx (my friend just did it not for lyme). Amoxicillin is a good one. Penicillin would be too.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Along with abx I take Samento, Cumanda and Artemisinin. There also is a product made of worms (yuck) called Lumbrokinase for hypercoagulation which I use with my Heparin shots.
posted
Hi Jim, My M.D. is giving me Allergy Reasearch TOA free cats claw, I am also doing salt and c plus bee venom shots. I have been doing this for 14 months. Seeing alot of progress. My Dr is into muscle testing. I do not take anything unless muscle tested or using a pendlum. Blessings to you health.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
IMO you could do really well following the Healing Lyme book (so long as you really study the herbs and watch yourself carefully)..
plus cleansing...especially in effective treatments.. improving ALL pathways of elimination is crucial..and keping them that way. (skin, liver, intestines, gall bladder, kidneys)
otherwise you will just be recycling your bacteria and toxins back through the system.
This takes some study but is well worth the effort IMO...and makes for lasting health beyond Lyme.
Here is a bit of what I mean from another thread I posted on today:
An old saying from China:
"Medicine cures three tenths, diet cures seven tenths"
and Hippocrates:
"Let they food be they medicine, they medicine be they food"
Many cultures (other than America) look to food to heal, and to stay well.
It started making allot of sence to me to get what I need (nutrients, immune support, probiotics, anti-infectious elements).. purely from what I eat.
That saves money in the long run, because we have to eat anyway...
plus, the body assimilates foodstuffs far more effectively than all those expensive capsules and things geared towards this -- you can do it BETTER with real food...AND, you then don't have the unhealthy effects from food that does you no good or even harm.
Chicken soup, with lots of greens like Swiss chard, lots of garlic (like 20 cloves) ..lots of onions, ect.. has been a mainstay for us. You can male a vat of it and it lasts for days. grandma was right about that one, and in chronic illness we have taken this regularly. Certain stews...when you boil veggies, you are basically making a potent vitamin water.. so soups and stews hold allot of nutrients.
I also use Kefir (live cultivated bacteria in a sort of yogurtish drink)
Kambucha tea.. (fabulous properties, will post later)
I drink distilled water for detox..
Take some herbs for minerals and also to fight bad organisms..herbs are food..
Oils...coconut, wheat germ, ect..
Taking teas and drinks and oils provide allot of powerful nutrition, and if you are still hungry after taking all of those.. choose foods that bring health.
I do too much to write here, but for example fennel is wonderful for you.. I also take REAL salt for minerals..
of course, I had to begin by detoxing/cleansing what had accumulated over the years of not eating for health and all the medicines first..(and treat intestinal parasites and them maintain against them) in order for this to be more effective.
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Hey Jim, Im a 21 year old 12 year untreated currectly lyme patient. Im treating parts of my lyme in the meantime till I find an LLMD with herbs etc...I am under the "supervisionb" you could say of a local health food store, as strange as that sounds. One of the woman there had lymes and treated it with a herbal/ detox program based in eastern medicine that at one time or still does also treat syphilis. I take three capsules of cod liver il a day, three capsules of something called quantum simplex ( a concotion of different supplements in one pill) and a glass or two of super greens a day. I havent started the complete detox part thats next week. I can get you more specific info about the stuff if you woul dlike it. All I know is it has given me a bit more nergy and pep so far to say the least. It seems to be the only thing thus far doing any good.
~Larrin NY
Posts: 3 | From Long Island NY | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Hi Jim, When my wife and I were sick with Lyme we decided to take the most powerful herbs that we could buy.
The most important herbs, depending on degree of 'herxing' are:
Cat's Claw, Teasel, Olive Leaf Extract, Seven Forest Herbal formulas for Spirochetes ,Triphala, and Sarsaparilla.
Also: 2 Kyolic Garlic formulas (Immune and Antioxidant), Pau d'Arco, Folic Acid, NAC(Cysteine), Silver, Oregano, and Grape Seed Extract.
Also Artemisinin if you suspect Babesia.
We have been very successful with this approach. It is costly but no where near the cost of prescription drugs and physician fees.
Blue Skies............John
Posts: 134 | From North Carolina | Registered: Sep 2004
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Jim Bayliss
Unregistered
posted
WOW, thanks everybody for all the info so far. Money IS a big problem with me, but still want a better quality of life for whatever is left of it. Also, I have to be careful WHAT I take because of my Ileostomy, as I become dehydrated easily, and also do not retain salt, and potassium at all. Need to lose some weight as I gained about 30 pounds since getting remarried 4 years ago. One problem is my "sweet tooth". Always been my downfall. Has anyone tried Andrographis? Buhner claims this is the most important of the herbs for killing the spirochetes. But he claims Japanese Knotweed and Cats claw also must be a part of the core regime. (Hopefully they will be here on Monday or Tuesday). He recommends others some of you mentioned also. Plus he has others he recommends for different reasons. I don't remember if he recommended the Arteminisin and a couple of the others you mentioned, so I will look into those further. So far I am only taking a couple pills a day of those I stated earlier, but HE recommends getting it up to 4 of each, 4 times a day. HOPE I can handle that. My stomach has gotten very touchy the past few weeks. Have those of you taking herbs taken that much too? THanks again everyone, Jim. ###
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NP40
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6711
posted
Hi NP40: I see they are in Oceania. Are they reliable? Do you know how long it takes to get the meds here to Wisconsin? Thanks, Jim. ###
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Everything comes from there as far as immune functions and nutrients.. and allot must leave from there as far as toxins and waste..
Some people call it your second brain.
There's like 40 feet of intestine and every inch of that surface is meant to make an exchange of good and bad that reaches your entire system to a cellular level.
Some old MD's (post civil war to pre-medical industrialization) cured almost any condition this way, that's to illustrate how important this is. (and that most Docs now don't even consider this critical element of healing)
One cleanse won't do this, either...it has to be a total change in lifestyle, and how you look at food and digestion.
Also important is to cleanse and maintain the kidneys, the liver.. and to treat intestinal parasites.
But must be cleansed to the point of clear pathways before you start heavy tx of parasites or infection.. for obvious reasons.
Hardy ..
I've read and read and read on this, but the best book to start with and use as a lifelong guide IMO would be Dr. John Christopher's
'School of Natural Healing' -- it's a giant herbal Bible and it gives allot of info on cleansing that is golden IMO. he has great info on kidney cleanse herbs, and also a wonderful Lower Bowel balance formula that over time strentgthens your peristaltiic muscles.. it is NOT a laxative.. (which long term would weaken the system).. his book is an education, and he also shows how to make the formulas yourself..or you can buy prepared formulas from a few sources online.
The only thing I believe he misses is parasites...that you would want a good regimen for when the time is right, and maintainance.
The other thing he misses is liver cleansing. The basic olive oil liver cleanse works very well..' a series of them.. but again, only when the body is ready (kidney and intestines primed up first)
Oh, and I think he misses on probiotics.. I'm using life culture/fermented and what a great effect it is having. I had missed that piece along the way. Although...come to think of it he does reccomend live cultire apple cider vinegar (the real thing) ...and that is a great source of good bacteria.
I also don't agree with not eating any meat. We eat some, not allot, and in the right combination.. Meat with veg (no grains or dairy with meat) Fruit with dairy (no meat or grains with this) Grains with fruit (no meat, no dairy with this)
These combinations are digestable and after corrrective work, what goes in comes out. I don't eat before noon, only after everything from yesterday is gone.
With the wrong combinations (sandwiches with meat or dairy are a bad combo, for instance) food stays in the body and ferments, cloggs, becomes putrid and creates bad acidity.
Basically... (and guys, I have lost all sence of dignity here in quest for health..or maybe I've gained it...)
but basically...
How's your poop?
Doc K told my friends who see him it should be three times a day and the size of your thigh. No necessity for wiping.
After about 8 months of work on all of the above, slow, steady.. right food combining on top of everything else.. I am still not there yet.
I believe I heard GiGi quote him as saying something like..
"If you won't get into your poop.. you won't get fully well"..
and on that note..
I'll be running along now
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Jim, I have found the herb Andrographis (Andrographitis) much more effective than cats claw. Also, it is by far, less expensive. I mean this stuff is cheap.
I was taking it with abx, so I can't comment on its performance without. I guess alot of this depends on your body chemistry, but the effect (herx) I got with Andrographis was very very intense and like no other abx I've taken. When the herxes were over my symptoms were almost gone. If you want to read about others experience with it check this tread out.
posted
QUIC; Thanks for the thread. I went to it and learned a lot. I just got my Andrographis today, and will be taking the first one when I finish this reply.
I still have NO antibiotics so will see WHAT it does for me in the next few days.
IF you have read Buhner's book, you realize that he recommends the Cat's Claw along with Japanese Knotweed, (resveratrol) in conjunction WITH the Andrographis and with or without antibiotics.
I have thoroughly enjoyed his book, though it was way over my head in the beginning. But along with this Lyme group and other websites, I am fast learning about herbal medicine. Wish I had known about it ten or even better, fifteen years ago. Maybe I would still have my large intestine, IF I had.
At any rate, I am going ahead with the herbs, and HOPE I can get some antibiotics SOON to go along with them.
Has anyone reading this tried buying antibiotics from United Pharmaceuticals in Oceanic, (Australia area)? Are they dependable? Is it okay to buy using my credit card with them, or should I send a money order?
posted
Quic: I started my Resveratrol last night and my Andrographis today. BUT BOTH of them will be on very low dosage for the first week, picking up little by little to the 4 pills of each, 4 times a day for two months, and then gradually reducing back down to where I am now for a few months and then see IF I need any at all. I just figured out how much per pill it cost me for the newest herbs from herbs-Wholesale out in California. The Resveratrol ( 25mg, 60 tabs) by Kal are 15 cents each. The Andrographis Full Spectrum (60 Tabs) by Planetary Formulas are 9 cents each. The Cats Claw Capsules (500mg, 100 Caps) by Raintree Nutrition Inc. are 9 cents each. The Cats Claw (1000 mg, 120 Tabs) by Source Naturals are only 8.5 cents each. So you see the Cats Claw, which has twice the amount of good, is only less than half the money of Andrographis, and the Capsules of 500 mg are about the SAME price as the Andrographis, at least from Herbs-Wholesale in Torrance, CA. Are YOU able to get the Andrographis CHEAPER than that? IF SO, from WHERE? Thanks, Jim ###
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Jim Bayliss
Unregistered
posted
Correction: I messed up in the 2nd to last paragraph of the LAST post: The Andrographis is actually MORE EXPENSIVE than the 1000mg, about twice as expensive, because the 1000mg Cats Claw is twice as much as you would need for 4 pills, so you would only have to take two (2), pills. I am going to save these for when I am at the maximum dosing that I plan to do in a month or so, depending on HOW my body reacts to all this. I haven't opened the bottle of the 1000mg up yet, maybe they are TOO big for me to swallow, and I may have to cut them up. I will see. They are tablets though on the 1000mg size so cutting IS an option. Jim. ###
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When you first mentioned cats claw I was assuming you were talking about Samento - the TOA free cats claw. You are right. The cats claw in pill for is also fairly inexpensive.
- Mike
Posts: 153 | From Watertown, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Jim Bayliss
Unregistered
posted
TO Quic: Hi Mike: I guess you have not read Buhner's book on Healing Lyme. It just came out this year. He has several pages dedicated to Cat's Claw. (Samento). Actually he has dedicated several pages just to the TOA/POA controversy. HE says it is INCORRECT to assume that used in whole herb form that the TOA"S stop anything, but rather enhance the immune system. The test that people quote was only done in test tubes, in vitro; and NO other researchers have ever come up with that same data. It would behove ALL physicians treating Lyme to read his book, it is super in MY opinion. I am going with it, to be sure. IF a year down the road, I find I am not cured, I will then seek OTHER alternatives. And yes, HE says in his book also, that the pills that have had the TOA's extracted are exceptionally expensive. BUT as he states there is NO reason to ever use the TOA free, since BOTH TOA's and POA's are important to Lyme infection. Sincerely, Jim ###
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