Topic: How many handfuls of supplements are you taking?
GiGi
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Member # 259
posted
Here are some of my notes and recordings from this weekend's Lyme seminar attended by many physicians.
Dr. K. was discussing the various treament methods for all infections and all neurotoxins. Mostly the plant adaptogens; from garlic to Samento - to Roseveratrol. I am giving it to you here as a "talk" - as he was addressing the subjects. This is just a tiny remark during the many hours of lectures and I find it to be very important, because I have lived it:
He warned: "if you are adding now 20-30 different supplements on top of that, it completely blocks the effect of these things.
That has been our main problem with the overdosing of vitamins and supplements and all those things that are not helpful. One of the things that has never been mentioned, and I find it very very sad, is that there is lots of German literature that shows that for every Lyme spirochete that lives in the tissue, there is approx. a million that live in the gut.
The main reservoir of all these illnesses is in the gut.
It is not in the tissues. And addressing the cleaning up of the gut through diet, through colonics, through bowel agents is a very, very important piece of the puzzle. And what you have to know, and this is tragic for me, is the whole wrong development and not having other voices out there:
If you take a multiple B-vitamin, who is getting that first? You, or the bugs? Most of the vitamins that you are taking are feeding the very bugs that you are trying to fight. They are getting the food first. What you are getting is not the B Vitamins you are taking; you are getting the poop-out residues that the bugs that live in your gut don't need. That's what you are getting.
So I am putting a big plug in here for the intravenous therapies and the parenteral therapies; those of you who are doing them know the effectiveness of that.
It is a completely different music when you give somebody a vit B12 shot or give them vitamin B 12 pills.
The worst one is the B complex. The B complex feeds almost all the vicious things in us. People may have a three week improvement and then they get worse and worse because now the bugs are outgrowing everything. You are completely destroying the delicate balance of your microbe systems in your gut. So I am a stronger and stronger opponent of the American way of doing the orthomolecular medicine, because this is something not looked at.
There is a study from Bircher-Brenner, from a wonderful Swiss pharmacist and researcher in the 1940's who could show that we have bowel bacteria that convert sugars into amino acids. We actually have an amino acid factory in the gut and it is a complete misconception; if you want to balance the food pyramid, the proteins with the carbohydrates, there is a lot of us that can just live of sweet potatoes and we can make all the amino acids with the help of the bugs we have in us.
There is a whole system that is overlooked between us and what we are eating. We eat, it goes through the system, and we get whatever that leaves for us. What we are finding is that the herbal treatments and the natural treatments for Lyme Disease are much interfered with by these mass attacks - the whole bags of supplements and nutrients that people are taking.
Yet, if you ask me, yes, I take supplements, but they are very very selective. Most of us need minerals - there is not enough minerals in the food. We need magnesium because Lyme bugs love magnesium and they take it from our system and don't leave enough for us. We need zinc and copper to fight the bugs. We need iron to fight the bugs. We need lithium to stabilize the nervous system. We need the trace elements for the immune system and all of our system. We do need the nutritional companies to make these things for us and to select good products for us. We need the supplements. I am not against them, but I am against the random use of mass amounts of supplements keeping in mind that you are feeding the bugs with it first and they interfer with many of the herbs."
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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In our personal journey my son and I have been working on the gut elements for about a full year now, every day and evolving as we go.
It takes dilligent and lifeling focus, and as far as illness is concerned we uncovered a great many needs and ills and have experienced a great deal of improvement implementing 24/7 365 day a year health focus on eliminative organs, digestion, and intestinal flora balance.
I have not had the opportunity to see Doc K, but have read everything I can get my hands on by him.
In addition, starting 1 year ago..I began reading the practices of 'old MD's' (post civil War, and before 1950) .. all of whom cured severe and chronic conditions of various natures with varied but similarly focused address on the eliminative organ health. I mean a stack of books I sought one by one that are out of print...must be at least four feet high. I read cover to cover. Case after case after case study.
The only thing they did not focus on that I researched at great length elsewhere was parasites..we have to get de-wormed and stay de-wormed and that is a long process requiring many angles as well. (as you know and have told us here repeatedly) We have done a series of liver cleanses and several parasite treatments of various kinds.
The gut is the center of health. Not just because of the critical need for healthy elimination and detox pathways (through kidneys, liver, GB, intestines..skin too for that matter).. but also because our immunity is directly fueled by this core generator.
'Old MD's' who rejected allopathic medicine and treated often themselves this way after contracting serious illnesses, and through their discoveries, then treated their patient's as well.. (and got them WELL) they used anything from herbs (first purgative then restorative) to fasting followed by eating for prime digestion..to hydrotherapy (not colonics of course, but steam baths as well as cold sitz baths to draw out the 'canker') to simply and dilligently using food as medicine.
They all had this focus first and foremost.
Not surprising the great Doc K does too.
I threw away all my very expensive supplements long ago (many hundreds of dollars worth). They were doing me no good and probably hurting in my case. I get all my nutrients from food I eat, home cultured probiotics and fermented beverages (for probiotics and vitamins/minerals) and I also take sole, and do clay and salt baths for additional detox. (in addition to that I am using rotating herbal protocols) More than I have listed here, over time, things have changed and rotated with needs, but that is the general idea..
It has NOT been easy, and we went through many phases of symptoms and what some would call detox reactions, I would call 'healing crisis'.. I am not advocating this as a do it yourself project (tho I also feel there is SOOOO much we can do that costs next to nothing and is achievable in the scheme of things..). I don't know how I managed all the study and implementaion, we just had to do it this way.. it would have been easier with a good doc navigating, but there are so few of them to go around.
It required as I said, hours and hours and hours of study, and ever more affort and dilligence and committment to do it. Every minute of every day. But now -- we can never go back to any other way of thinking or doing. Ever.
You know how bad my son was. An extremely serious and complicated case. He is still recovering and struggling with illness, but at a rate that has astonished the LL's who have treated him. Another key factor is that HE has embraced this and lives it and is committed to the Nth degree on his own accord. Here we have a teen who won't touch pizza, sandwiches, candy or soda and is an active participamnt in all the good foods and digestive health and detox practices. This is his own stance that he owns.
A kid who could not stay in school for a full day last Spring (was out of school a full two years before that), is pulling 95's in Advanced classes (with an IEP honoring the fatigue issues and absences with modifications and accommodations).. and is once again social and living the life of a 14 year old. He still struggles only with fatigue, and cognitive deficits that fluctuate. The brain is a closed cavity (similar to large joints) and the hardest place for immunity to reach and for debris to clear.
This element (the gut) is key in any disease, no matter how sick you are or what your treatment history has been IMO.
I've been kind of reserved in sharing our 'practices' because I am never sure how they will be taken, but wanted to share a bit on this post.. and to thank you for your committment to share your knowledge, as it has been a major spring board and knowledge base in our journey.
Blessings, Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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Just picked up a body cleansing kit today - my dog's physical therapist (who also treats people, lol) recommended it as something that might be helpful as a detoxxing aid as well as cleaning out the colon.
Nice to see some confirmation of that from here in the forum.
So far my vitamins and supplements are reasonable I think. Trying not to go crazy and add anything the doc hasn't pre-approved.
I have to say I also put my pooch on a similar eating programme, ect...(all natural -- fresh garlic, veggies, grains and meat.. little kibble) and he is is like a puppy again.
(tho - dogs have much shorter digestive tracts, ours is apparhently a dozen times longer than our spine making it much more complex, whilst theirs is relatively short in comparison).. still.. it has been interesting observing the clear benefits in him as well.
..and what do we look at in sick pups? (My Dad is a breeder) ..you look at their skin and coat, their gums (for circulation) .. see that their noses are wet..pinch their skin to check hydration.. and look at thier POOP.
Why should we hold higher standards for our dog's doodies than our own?
You also de-worm then frequently (which is easier to do in dogs than humans)
~ Mo
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Very good, MO and GIGI.
We NEED more of this stuff on the "naturals" and supplements.
Myself, my stomach has been bad again lately, so I decided to go from the three Tetracyclines a day I started last week, to back down to two today. I only have five more days on Tet anyway. Then a week off to rest my system some.
THe only vitamins I take are 1000mg of C a day and 400 IU of E. Are those bad to take too?
I am going to add Ginger Root in hopes of getting the stomach to settle down. I have a pound of the powder now, and a machine to put them in capsules. I hope to get them made by tomorrow. My Nettle Leaf Powder was not incuded in my last order, so have to get them to send it, as I feel that will help too with my arthritus. I am already taking Devils Claw which has helped a lot. Waiting for my Stephania Root Powder too.
Since I can't get testing, would you recommend that I take Doxycycline next instead of Amoxicillin in case I should have a coinfection too?
5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Thanks so much for sharing this with us.I have been contemplating adding B6 to my supps but will think again.
The problem about the gut sounds like a big one.If I where a spirokete that's where I would like to live the most too.It'like living in an all you can eat buffet.Aleady there broken down nicely for them.
How can doctors kill these b@#$$%d's in the gut?
I tryed the week of zantac & pepto but not sure it did anything.Is there any thing else suggested for killing BB in the gut?Other than diet.
This is a VERY important peiece of the puzzle and am glad you shared this informatin .
Take good care.
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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GiGi
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Member # 259
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Dana, it is mainly the B-complex that is the problem. B6 (or P5P) can be very beneficial and is involved in many bodily functions.
Mercola says also in the link Lymeloco gave, erroneously, that we are getting toooooo much iron. Not so. He obviously is not sitting across from semi-dead patients all day long. Read Dr. K's article "A Look Beyond Antibiotics" where he says clearly
"copper and iron have all but disappeared from most supplements based on faulty interpretation of hair analysis. The immune system uses those two metals in the process of phagocytosis. They are the main constituent of the enzymes or bullets the immune cells use in the battle against the invaders. Oxidized used-up iron and copper get displaced in the extracellular compartment and body fluids and appear in the hair and skin, as the body's most efficient way of excreting toxins without hurting the kidneys.
This has led to the dangerous and in its consequence catastrophic assumtpion that these metals are the enemy and need to be restricted. It is true that oxidized metals pose a danger and have to be reduced (=substitution of electrons) or eliminated. However, when copper and iron are needed and substituted appropriately, major improvements have been observed. Appropriate antioxidant treatment can reduce these metals.
Homeopathic copper and iron will lead to beneficial redistribution of these metals and makes them bioavailable again."
We do need the minerals which are no longer available through our foods. Be wise about the mineral supplements you choose. We stay away from colloidal minerals, etc. Have a look at the mineral content in goat whey. I have posted about this some months ago. That's still my favorite and above all, easily absorbable, which many others are not. That is goat whey from clean goats! (we have been using Mt. Capra for years). Mix it into your apple-a-day-with-skin-on in the morning.
Take care.
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luvs2ride
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When I first began treatment with my homeopathic LLMD, I asked him what things I could be doing in addition to his remedies and I mentioned vitamins. He said simply "Do nothing outside of what I give you. I am addressing the areas you need.
Most of my remedies are liquids taken under the tongue which then absords quickly into my blood stream. B vitamins and magnesium are included. A couple are small pills held under my tongue until they are absorbed.
It has been a hard lesson for me to learn. At first I wanted to add to and take away from what he prescribed. However, in spite of my own sabotage, I am amazingly recovered (90-95%) in just 5 mths.
I really believe getting to a doctor who knows what he is doing is key to recovery.
PS: I did have lots of gut issues.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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Million thanks for posting this!!!! WOW...........!
Lymster in WA
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5dana8
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Member # 7935
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Thanks GiGi for answering the B6 question.
luvs2ride:do you do under the tongue B6?
The goats milk I have looked into & printed out an older post by troutscout "Stop The Press...Is this what I was lacking"regaurding herxing on goats milk.
I filed it away but am gonna have another look see.He used "Goatein" by garden of life.
Is" Mt' Capra" and "clean goats" a brand name for goats milk?
I have been cautious about goats milk because of the unpasterized factor in some of the products.
Does goats milk contain copper & iron.Just wondering what is special about Goats milk.Other than the vit.D & calcium.
Take care
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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luvs2ride
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5dana8
I checked the bottle and it just says water soluble B vitamins 1x so I assume B6 is in there.
Goats milk is closer to human milk than cows milk and causes less alergic reactions. My grandson was lactose intolerant for at least the first year of his life. His mother breast fed and supplemented with goats milk. None of us could cheat and give him a treat with milk such as ice cream. He would colic badly. That is all I know about goat's milk.
Today he is ok but a really smart little fella! Of course, what grandmother doesn't think their grandchild is exceptional?
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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char
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Thanks GiGi. A lot to digest...
Mo- Your story got me right here as I have a 14yr daughter who is very sick.
Do you have advice on how to help her get interested in cleaning up diet rather than resisting?
She has stomach problems,(gall bladder out, acid reflux, pain) They are slowly improving on abx. IV right now. So eating less carbs and so on would help so much. She has sort of picked this area to not comply and there is so much she does have to endure and have a good attitude.
She is having mood swings and it is hard for me to push food issue. My son and I are recovering, so I am tired and have a hard time cooking well and being firm.
Anyone else?
Gigi, I hope I am not diverting to far from your original post. I am thinking that all this research does you no good if you don't figure out how to put it into practice.
Thanks, Char
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GiGi
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Luvs, what you are describing is a homeopathic B vitamin.
Dana, It is not the whole goat milk or Goateen I am talking about for the minerals. It is the goat whey - the liquid that is left over after the cheesemaker has made his cheese. It is usually thrown away or given to the pigs by the farmer. (anyone old enough to have seen what milk looks like when it sours, or has made yoghurt --- give us a lecture, MO! - it is desperately needed - Kefir and all. Mo, have you made your own Sauerkraut yet! Or fermented other veggies? Half of Germany is doing that - in the US you still find the Sauerkraut containing vinegar and preservatives as if that was really necessary. I made my own last year, but wish I had a real cellar where I can put it to ferment.
The Goat Whey is then (for convenience) freeze-dried in a gentle manner so as not to destroy it. Do a search on Mt. Capra Goat Whey - you will find the information on the net. Most people need the goat whey for minerals and trace minerals, not necessarily the Goateen which contains the full milk - proteins, etc.
Take care.
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GiGi
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Char, this research has been put into practice by many practitioners all around the world. Years ago. With most chronic illness, if you hang up on abx, almost certainly your results are going to hang up also. You could go back, read my starting post again, and if you felt so inclined could put this proven research into practice immediately.
As far as setting priorities and making choices - everyone is on their own. My motto always has been: Where there is a will, there is a way.
Take care.
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oxygenbabe
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That's interesting, I avoid b-complex and particularly b12 since getting lyme but do put b5 and b6 in with my magnesium in my IV. The only supplements I take are echinacea purpurea, cranberry capsule, digestive enzymes, and oregano essential oil, and sometimes allicin (did a lot for 2 months and taking a break now).
I make green juices with an Omega Juicer which is excellent and I highly recommend, it really gets out a nice dark juice and dry pulp left behind (which you can save if you want and mix with, for instance, salmon and organic egg and make salmon burgers if you want the pulp).
I use greens, and lemon for the green juice. I figure since organic I probably get decent minerals in there. Then again who knows as even organic these days is big money commercial.
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Boomerang
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Thanks so much for the update, Gigi. I'm a relative newbie, so I'm feeling a bit frustrated. Hubby has been on ABX for 3 1/2 months now...
Hubby is on Vitamin C, MSM, Magnesium, Acidophilus, Charcoal, Centrum, Milk Thistle, and Nystatin for yeast........ Also takes Protonix for his stomach problems.
Is this mixture "feeding" the bacteria?
I know some LLMD's push supplements and some don't.
I just wish I knew if I'm doing something wrong with having my husband take these things.
Appreciate any input.
Best wishes to all.
Posts: 1366 | From Southeast | Registered: Sep 2005
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GiGi
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Boomerang,
Hubby is on Vitamin C, MSM, Magnesium, Acidophilus, Charcoal, Centrum, Milk Thistle, and Nystatin for yeast........ Also takes Protonix for his stomach problems.
I don't think what you are doing is feeding the bugs. I am not familiar with Protonix. I would only not stay too long on Charcoal, because it removes more of the minerals than you want to remove. It is only for a very short-term toxicity problem. He would be much better of with Chlorella. It is the most perfect food and a lot more. Read the article I have posted on Chlorella several times. It is a lot better than many other things that are available that don't do half the job Chlorella does.
Just be sure you get a good chlorella that is not toxic to start with.
Take care.
P.S. I just noticed the Centrum. I am sure that has all B vitamins in it. If I recall, it also has Titanium Dioxide in it which is carcinogenic and which you do not need. Check the fine print on all very carefully for that.
It is the oral B-vitamins that have to move through the gut that are being devoured by the ever increasing parasites and other bugs. I had a month of IV and IM of B-complex early on to fill up the reservoir and that was fine.
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posted
Hi Gigi, Thanks for all the info. What are the thoughts on menopausal and post menopausal useing iron??? I thought it was a no no. Thanks J
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Hi Gigi, Thanks for all the info. What are the thoughts on menopausal and post menopausal useing iron??? I thought it was a no no. Thanks J
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Char and all -- I just lost a post I spent most of the day so far coming back and forth to to compose. A real long one that got lost in the abyss.
I'll give it another go later.
Quickly, JimBob.. I can't say what you should take because it depends on allot of things.. but I thought I'd suggest researching Olive leaf. Multi-spectrim against bacteria and viruses, and easy on the gut.
This book by Morton Walker for 6 bucks will tell you all you need to know about it, with research..
posted
Thanks MO, I just ordered the book and a couple of others from Amazon.com. Jim.
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GiGi
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Santa Cruz, I would never take a single mineral unless I was testing deficient in it for one reason or another. It is always safer to take a natural substance that incorporates all minerals in a balance, such as Goat Whey. Our food is lacking minerals big time, so it is almost a necessity to supplement minerals.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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hardynaka
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Hi Gigi,
I always try to follow your posts. Always learning with them, thank you!
I live in Switzerland, next to the border with Germany. I can go shopping for Rechtsregulat directly there!
We only consume organic goat milk at home. We had issues of lactose/ allergy to cow milk. I sometimes do cheese and often yoghurt from it.
I always throw the whey down the sink, but after your post I wonder if I won't just drink it ???!!!
I wonder if you know HOW MUXH of it could one drink a day. For others who would like to do it by themselves, it costs next to nothing to do soft cheese at home (and also the whey) and it's very easy to do soft cheese. You just need milk and vinager/ lemon/ anything acid to put into it.
But I have no idea how much a bottle of milk would give of minerals... Maybe one needs just one glass of whey, or dozens of it (?) to get the same effect as powdered whey???
Any idea? It would be very helpful as I have to import all these supplements and pay taxes, DHL, handling at the customs every time I buy a single item...
Thanks for any input,
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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GiGi
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Selma, dooooooooooooooooon't pour it down the sink. Drink it! Do a little bit often. If I had it available I would drink 1/4 cup several times a day, or just keep sipping away at it. I am not really sure. Freeze dried - it is 2-3 tablespoons in juice 3x/day. Goat Whey is sold in liquid and powdered form in all of Germany. Look at some of the containers to establish how much and take more if you have Lyme Disease.
Go to the website of Mt. Capra and read all the info they give. The freeze dried is of course better because you can take it daily - to bring your minerals up. I never had the chance to drink they whey because I am too far removed from a healthy goat. Don't the healthfood stores in Switzerland sell it?? It is in all the huge drug chain stores in Germany - at least the are aware of the benefit. Am not sure how clean the goats are where it comes from. Mt. Capra is the one Dr. K. has been using and of course we have been using.
Can you tell us, Selma, exactly how you make cheese from organic goat milk, temperature, etc., whatever you put into it exactly, too. I always like to learn something new that I have not done before.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Even better IMO would be to get some kefir grains and feed/culture them with your goats milk. Then you'd have 'Da Bomb!'
I culture kefir at home, which in about 24 hours turns into 'curds and whey' .. packed with minerals and great probiotics. (and very tasty, too)
I'm sure you could find someone with real grains (not commercial) near you as I believe it is not so uncommon oversees, and the culturing is an easy thing to do.
I am using organic, grass fed cow milk, which is fine but I am looking into getting a couple of goats on my property as there is even more mineral content in goat's milk kefir. I've never raised them before, so I am reading up on it.
I will post a good site for reference on kefir later...
Mo
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Boomerang
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Thanks a bunch, Gigi! I checked the Centrum and it is full of B vitamins. Putting a stop to that one right now!
Appreciate all the info.
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5dana8
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hey Bomerang Now I am really confused.And that's saying alot. So B6 is ok ,B-complex is a no no,and all the other B's are bad? Any one out there know the answer?
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Just part of that post I lost..................
Mo's Witchy-Poo Stew:
(We have eaten this every day practically for one year and a half, I consider it medicinal - in India there is no distinction between medicine and food.. it's all just one beautiful continuum)
Make all soups and stews with organic vegetables (and distilled water) and also wash them - lest you will have nothing more than 'broth de contaminant'..
(pesticides, floride, excess minerals and metals, and God knows what else that will not cook off)
4 Whole Chicken breasts (organic, free range) 6 organic carrots, large 6 stalk celery, with leaves Large bulb fennel 4-5 onions 20 cloves of garlic (yes, 20) Big bunch Swiss Chard good chicken stock Crystal salt Pinch Cayenne Fresh Sage Fresh Rosemary Fresh Thyme 1/4 cup long grain wild rice
This makes allot of soup..take an afternoon to brew it, and your house will smell wonderful and you will feel good about taking good care of yourself. You will have allot to put in fridge and eat out of for a couple of days, and some to freeze. (tho my son is addicted to this soip, and the vat is gone in three days) A bowl of this will make you feel GOOD and is wonderful for digestion.
I use a 12 quart stock pot.
Do the garlic first since there is so much of it.. slice thin the cloves and set aside. Heat about 2 tbsp virgin olive oil, whilst that is heating, cut the top off the fennel, peel the bulb and pull out the core, slice in half, lay flat side down and slice this thin. Saute the fennel, it can take 10-15 minutes total, till translucent.
While that's cooking, Peel and cut the onions into large chop.
Throw them in with the fennel.. let cook within fennel time, about 5 minutes. Throw in the garlic.
Wash and pat dry the chicken. Throw that in the pot and let it brown a little with the onion and fennel while you rinse and cut coarsely chop the carrots and celery
Throw that in.
Cover chicken with water.
Shred/slice the (rinsed) Swiss Chard, in it goes. Add stock, all spices.
Add water till the pot is about 3/4 full.
Bring to boil, and then turn down to simmer and let it go for at least an hour, longer is better.
take out the chicken breasts and with two forks, hold and shred off the chicken, discard skin and bones.
(do not skim the fat, from good chicken this fat is good for immune system energu requirements)
Put chicken back in pot with the very small amount of wild rice.
Let rice cook (about 1/2 hr or so) Adjust spices to taste.
Other good digestive food combos:
Apples and cheese/yougurt or kefir.
Whole grain bread with preserves.
Pile of veggies (raw or cooked) with a little meat protein (no cheese) topped with olive oil and lemon.
Basic rule of thumb:
Dairy + fruit or veggie (no meat)
grains + fruit or veggie (no protein or dairy)
Meat/fish + veggie (no dairy or grain)
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klutzo
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Gigi, Thanks for the shocking info (I think). Without 100 mgs. of B Complex daily, I rapidly become a nervous wreck, and soon develop symptoms of B2 deficiency, so I don't know what to do after reading this. It is the only supplement I take at high dosage except for MSM (for allergies), Niacin (for high triglycerides), and Magnesium citrate. I take tiny doses of other supps. I do the Pepto Bismol protocol for one week every other month and it does help me a lot.
JimBob, From what I've read, the body can't absorb more than about 160 mgs. of vitamin C orally per day, so you are wasting money taking 1,000 mgs., unles you are using IV's. Vitamin E appears in very low amounts even in very healthy foods, so I question our needing that much...otherwise, I feel nature would have supplied it to us in food. I would stop the vit. E supp. and just use rice bran oil for your salad dressing and for cooking. You'll get plenty of natural E that way. Just my .02.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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daystar1952
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3255
posted
It's been mentioned here before that Juice Plus makes alot of sense. I have been taking it for almost 5 months now and do see a big difference in stamina.
I am still on antibiotics but I feel that this product is forming my baseline of nutrition. We are supposed to be eating at least 6 to 9 servings of RAW fruits and vegetables a day, in order to get full benefits of the enzymes and vitamins. I eat vegetables and some fruits but never get near that amount. I used to juice but I was leary of all the sugar in that and it was alot of work so it kind of faded out of my life.
Juice Plus is 17 vine ripened raw fruits and vegetables which are juiced and then immediately put to the drying process at temps low enough to keep most of the enzymes intact.
I believe in whole food and nutrition. Nature knows in what ratio all the nutrients in the food are supposed to be. There are many elements or nutrients that science does not even know of. So to try and create isolated fractionated vitamins and minerals which are divorced from the food it is supposed to be in has been shown to cause more harm than good in certain studies.
When you look at the amounts of vitamins and minerals in food, the amounts may not impress you very much. For example...an orange does not have 1,000 mg of vit c, it only has 60......but because our bodies are made to absorb our vitamins and minerals from food....it is absorbed and assimilated much better. So, I take Juice Plus and have eliminated all other single vitamins...except for things like artemesinin and milk thistle tea, Himalayan salt, etc....whole foods.
Now, if one still has a deficiency after taking a whole food supplement and eating all the raw produce they can...then well I would probably take that vitamin I was missing, in an isolated form. But no one knows how all these separate vitamins and minerals interact in all the different doses. It's like vaccines and drugs. There are no studies out there to show us how this is all interacting. So, getting whole food in a concentrated form makes sense to me....and it seems to help
Posts: 1176 | Registered: Oct 2002
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Hey GiGi; Thanks for the info on b-vit's again.Sorry will re-read post again.I am so dumbed down this is my third time of reading this thread.And thanks for the goat whey information.VERY intersting.
Hey Mo; Thanks for the soup recipe.Love a good healthy soup.This one's a keeper.
Hey daystar1952; Where do you get your juice plus? I use supper green food by garden of life & xmango juice & feel that really makes a difference. But the juice plus shounds even better.
Take care and Thanks
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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daystar1952
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3255
posted
Hi Dana.....What you are taking sounds great too. Whole food supplements are the way to go. I like Juice Plus because of it's convenience, the studies behind it and the way it makes me feel. I had been to several "Wellness Presentations " which tell you about JP and also guide you as to how to eat right. At first it sounded interesting but I just wasn't too pepped up about it.
Then I was manning a Lyme Disease table at a corporate health fair and there was a person giving out information on JP...right across from me. Anyway, I was impressed more by the way this woman presented it and she was glowing with health , sincerity and well being....so she just kind of drew me in. I ordered it, took it for a while and started having a bit more energy.
It made sense to me and I wanted my family to take it too. I have a husband and 2 sons and they barely eat any vegetables....and the things they do eat aren't so hot. I knew I wouldn't ever get them to consume green drinks. Juice Plus is a multilevel marketing company...and they are very good at what they do...with their products and the help and guidance available to distributors.
So, the woman who sold me the JP said that if I became a distributor I could save money on the product and if I wanted to sell it outside my family that I could make as much as the time I wanted to put into it. I'm not a very pushy person when it comes to selling things, so I was hesitant but she told me that it is a product which makes sense. How could anything be wrong with fruits and vegetables. I'm finding that people like the concept and appreciate the convenience.
Make sure you click on the science of Juice Plus where you can read the independant studies and also read and hear what several docotrs have to say. I probably shouldn't be talking this much about it on this list so if anyone wants to know more you can e-mail me privately. My e-mail is on top of the webpage
Thank you, and MO, and everyone else for this amazing info.
I'll only pick on the sauerkraut: I am originally from Eastern Europe, and my mother has always pickled everything without vinegar (she had a liver sensitivity), and it tasted marvelous - cabage filled peppers, cucumbers etc. She never had a cellar, only a pantry, and they stayed all winter. She also made fresh pickles, to use within 3 days - in a sealed jar using sunshine. They were great!
If you are interested, I'll find out the recipe. My grandmother made sauerkraut, the real thing, but I think she did do it in the cellar. I've been too lazy to do it myself - no cook here!
Thanks for your great input,
-------------------- June Posts: 22 | From CT | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I would love to know how to make the sourkraut!
I have a cellar..
What I am making now is real kefir, Kombucha tea, some cane wine vinegar sent to me from outside the U.S. (with a mother culture, much like apple cider vinegar)..
I'd like to learn about other fermented foods. I think our ancestors had it going on in this area, and moving away from it has had some impact on health IMO. Isn't kefir also common in Eastern Europe?
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Mo, because I really admire your fortitude and attitude, (that was supposed to be the Instant "gremlin" -- never heard of Graemlins) I will post my recipe for homemade sauerkraut shortly. I must have lunch first! So check back!
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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(I have been following your Gremlin saga.. pretty funny the first ones you got are bonking yourself on the noggin.)
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Hey, Gigi.
Boy, when you do it, you really do it don't you?
I guess I should have told you to just click on the Graemlin ONCE, NOT twice. Jim
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Yes, JimBo, if I do something I put my heart and soul into it --- thanks!
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Klutzo:
I think when you are talking 160 of vitamin C a day, assimilated, you are talking "healthy" people. WHO really knows how much we need of ANYTHING on this Lyme thing? We have to remember, that there are many things that BLOCK the assimilation of Vitamin C, AND other supplements also, for that matter.
I remember how Linus Pauling was poopoohed for his huge vitamin C protocol. But I have used it several times thoughout the years and it HAS worked for me.
I have been a sickly person, MOST of my life, but except for this LYME THING, have been better in later years than in early years.
It all started when I had POLIO at age 6 in 1947. It has left me left leg smaller and weaker, and because of it, it has broken much easier than my right leg over the years, many times. I personally believe that polio has affected OTHER parts of MY system also.
I was very sick year after year with flu bugs, one after the other, for many, many years, with or without the flu vaccines. IT would start in November and end usually in May. This would happen one bug after the other. I would no more than get over one bug and another would hit. IT got so that by spring, I didn't even want to live anymore. I was miserable every day.
I tried a lot of stuff. Finally I just gave up and suffered through the fall, winter, spring the best I could. Sure wasn't much fun to live. Many days I wanted to die, but didn't have the guts to take my own life. So, kept plugging away.
Well, the last few years, I started and have faithfully been taking 500 mg of C a day, and up to 3000 mg a day, IF I feel something coming on. I no longer drink well water here, and only drink distilled water, and/or artesian water I personally put in my bottles up in Ashland Wisconsin.
My wife claims that they don't use PCB's on the potatoe fields here anymore, but I don't believe that, so am sticking to my guns on this one. Also, am continuing with the Vitamin C.
However, my stomach has been so bad for the past two or three months, and I am sure the abx and herbs are NOT helping it a bit, that I quit taking the Vitamin C about 4 days ago.
Well, let me tell you, I have NOT felt very good at all the past three days, though today was a little bit better. I had also ended my regimen of Tetracycline last Saturday. NOW I kind of know what you all are talking about herxing. My legs and knees started hurting bad again. AND my eyes which have been super good since I started the herbal protocol, got really blurry and foggy again yesterday.
I couldn't stand THAT. Not after all the progress I had made. So started taking 500mg of C again, and also started taking Stephania Root, and today my eyes are better, though not perfect yet. Hopefully they will be good again by tomorrow or Wednesday.
I reread the articles on both, eyes, and vitamin C in Buhner's Healing Lyme Naturally book, and realized HE recommended 3000mg of Vitamin C a DAY. AND he recommended the effervescent Vitamin C from Wholesale Nutrition at nutri.com as IT is MUCH better/easier on the stomach. So I ordered their largest size today. Supposed to be the BEST vitamin C on the market. The lady I talked to on the phone to order, was really down to earth and very, very nice to talk to. So was a pleasant experience.
LOTS of Vitamin C is needed with Lyme. HOW MUCH, WHO really knows?
You make a drink out of the powder. Check it out on the net. I will keep you posted when I get it later this week. It was being shipped priority mail today, but they are way out in California, so will take a few days to get here, I imagine. HOPEFULLY it will help this stomach problem of mine that started about two weeks BEFORE I started the herbal regimen.
Sometimes it takes just the right thing to hit on to make you feel better. Almost a year ago my chest started hurting and it kept spreading and NOTHING had helped the symptoms until I read about the Sali-pipe (salt pipe) here on this group. It isn't perfect yet, but it sure does help a lot, most days. Many times better now. I believe it is my bronchial tube. I have asthma but TRY NOT to use my inhalers IF I can help it as they make me VERY nervous and that stuff is NOT natural at all. And the herbs did not seem to help THIS symtom at all. Only the salt pipe has. Not cheap, but definitely worth it.
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
B vitamins double edge sword?
I am still going to take them because I figure if it is feeding spirochete's its not depleating me of them .Which our muscles and nerve's need to rebuild. I have progressed on b vitamin complex but I do know when I have had to much I start to ache and its similar to the lyme ache but low key.
So now I take them every other day.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG, but wouldn't it stand to reason, that IF you are feeding the chetes, they will stay out in the open where the antibiotics AND your herb strengthened immune system can get at them, to DESTROY them?
Am I correct in believing that the ones in hiding are NOT out there in a feeding frenzy, but maybe in Limbo, as it were?
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
quote:Originally posted by JimBoB: TREEPATROL and/or GIGI:
CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG, but wouldn't it stand to reason, that IF you are feeding the chetes, they will stay out in the open where the antibiotics AND your herb strengthened immune system can get at them, to DESTROY them?
Am I correct in believing that the ones in hiding are NOT out there in a feeding frenzy, but maybe in Limbo, as it were?
Just something to think about. Jim.
I agree with what you said. Thats why I put in the keep taking Bcomplex thread.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
hi GiGi
It's been awhile since you posted this subject.
Just wanted you to know I started to use the Mt Capra goat minerial Whey. And I think it makes a difference.
How much do you think to take? The back of the conainer says 1 tbs 3XD.Can you get too much copper from this product?
Take care dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Dana, as long as you have a natural product that is balanced on its own, you are safe in taking the Goat Whey. The recommended dose is okay.
Please go read the section "Minerals" on www.neuraltherapy.com/articles in Dr. K's lecture to a large group of doctors "Lyme Disease: A Look beyond Antibiotics". It tells clearly where Lymies and minerals need to be concerned. Just scroll down to the section - I think he calls it the mineral issue".
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Just for general purposes: B Complex vitamins orally feed the worms. That is the main concern. What is left after they are full remains for you. That is the reason for B's to only be taken by IM. That is just as easy. Worms and parasites are a major problems with most chronically ill, i.e. Lyme Disease. It has nothing to do with feeding the spirochetes.
These are the instructions we got over and over and over: Don't take B complex by mouth. Often they are also in multiples. As it was, we had to go through a very extensive parasite program to clear them back to a normal level. We all have some, but they definitely got the upper hand during Lyme Disease.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
sorry double post
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Thanks for the link GiGi
and the added info about goat mineral whey.
And I never thought to look on my multi for B-complex. I just looked and it isn't so that's good.
thanks again
take care dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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