posted
Are there any particular symptoms besides a barts rash that clues a LLMD into the possibility that a person has the co-infection - bartonella?
Is a herx from bartonella the same as lyme? Does it go in cycles every 3-5 weeks? Does it release toxins that need to be cleared from our system?
IP: Logged |
posted
Painful palms and soles is common amongst people infected with Bartonella.
The way I see it, all other symptoms are overlapping with Lyme symptoms.
Posts: 159 | From CT, USA | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
valymemom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7076
posted
My only 3 bart symptoms were the pin-prick rash on my neck and arms, sharp shin pain & bad brain fog. I did not test positive for bart/only lyme.
Levaquin/ceftin......and later biaxin XL/ceftin helped. The brain fog lifted first..... got my concentration back and could read again......rash gone, too.
I also had terrible arthritic pain in both knees and sharp pain in one ear.
My arthritis pain is totally gone. The ear and shin pain disappears now except when herxing. Then for 3-4 days out of the month it is intense at moments thru-out the day and night.
Everyone responds differently. That's what is most frustrating as I watch two sons battle these overlapping infections.
Posts: 1240 | From Centreville,VA | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Painful arches in feet especially in the morning. Bone pain in shins with nodules. Night seats.
Posts: 13 | From ohio | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yup-That's the rash alright...My son has had this for years...
I thought it was stretch marks....Regular doc's must have too.
My son tested negative for both Bart and Babs...Heard that does not mean a thing..
His LLMD treats for co infections anyway...
I heard OCD and rage are also part of bart...
Posts: 127 | From Rock Tavern, New York | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
Foggy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1584
posted
I'd like to know how a LLMD differentiates Bart from stretchmarks, especially if the patient has simultaneously lost/gained weight?
Posts: 2451 | From Lyme Central | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I dont know how to differentiate but I can tell you that my son's look like red welts. He has the regular old strectch marks too.....
They are different to the point that I have had comments made by others....My son has had them for years and they come and go...Sometimes worse than other times...
Posts: 127 | From Rock Tavern, New York | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
I probably have Bartonella but do not have the typical symptoms of lymph node problems and rashes. The reason I think I have Bart is that I tested positive (Igenex test) and the only time I had a huge herx (in 1-1/2 years of many meds) was when I started taking Septra.
The only symptom that I can attribute to Bart is that my skin felt a little sunburned (that symptom is gone fortunately). The bad herx I had was an increase in all my symptoms. I think all herxes produce toxins that need to be removed from the body.
My other symptoms, which could be Lyme or Babesia, are burning pressurized headaches, fatigue, insomnia, and major tension/jitteriness (this last one could be my adrenals). I also started needing to wear deodorant, and my skin and hair feels like it needs to be washed a couple hours after I shower.
I have read on another thread that if you stop taking meds and the symptoms come back within a couple of days, then it means you have Bart. I don't know if it's true but it happened to me. Some symptoms that I got rid of a long time ago -- body aches and stiff knees -- came back.
Interestingly, my recent Igenex test showed that I have only had Bart for a short period of time. I am 99% sure that I have not been rebitten (nor have I been scratched by a cat). Would like to hear what other people think of that.
Take care, P
Posts: 449 | From Vermont | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
riversinger
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4851
posted
I just found out that my eye symptoms are probably due to Bartonella. I have damage to the retina, and photosensitivity, as well as headaches that they are thinking is due to a Bartonella infection.
I have also had pain on the soles of my feet, pain in my shins, swelling of some lymph nodes and tonsils, but none of the classic rashes.
lymeinhell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4622
posted
Ditto Valymemom and Riversinger. And throw in uncontrollable fits of rage, and an eye swollen up like someone punched me.
Levaquin (a quinilone) did NOTHING, except cause me tendon damage, as I was unaware of the side effects (and not under the care of an LLMD at the time). Rifampin cleared it up.
-------------------- Julie _ _ ___ _ _ lymeinhell
Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed. Posts: 2258 | From a better place than I was 11 yrs ago | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
riversinger
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4851
posted
I thought I was doing really well with Rifampin and Bactrim, as the tonsils, headaches, swelling, foot and leg pain all cleared up.
But the photosensitivity and eye symptoms remain, and if anything, are worse. a recent SPECT was not so good, and Bartonella titers are still positive, though not high, so the doc is putting me on Cipro. We'll see how that goes.
Light sensitvity and eye pain can be from Mycoplasmas also. This is a big issue with the Marshall Protocol and Cell Wall Deficient bacteria. It wouldn't make any sense if your eye pain had increased after so many months of treating Bart. It would make sense if it were CWD bacteria.
Does anyone know if all the physical signs of Bart stretch marks and lessions have to be totally gone before Bart is gone? I wonder if the stretch marks just fade but stay indented so that you can still see them?
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
riversinger
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4851
posted
micul, I understand what you are saying. I'm not sure what to think, as the Bartonella titers are still positive, so doc thinks it is still a player.
My other doctor believes that the mold issues are also involved, as it causes inflammation as well. this makes sense to me, so I am continuing to do what I need to to manage that.
I haven't been tested for mycoplasma. I have done the D testing for the Marshall protocol, and don't really fit the profile. Plus,none of the docs in this area have seen good results with it.
posted
I wouldn't do the MP myself because I feel that it is flawed, but I do agree with the conclusion that CWD bacteria are behind a lot of the problems that arise from the use of abx.
You probably still do have Bart if the titers are correct, but I just wouldn't conclude that the eye pain is because your Bart is worse. Could be that the fungus is worse as a result of continued abx Tx, or something else is there that wasn't effected by the Rif/Sep.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
riversinger
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4851
posted
I saw a new Lyme doc on Tues. he isn't the one who rxd the Rif/Bactrim. In fact, the Rif?Bactrim was for a Staph issue that is more connected with the mold stuff.
The new LLMD does not believe that Rifampin is a good treatment for Bartonella, and says that I haven't really been treated. To me, it seems I have, but its hard to say, as the treatment was targeted at something else, and maybe the sx that improved were due to that improving? Hard to say for sure in these complex illnesses.
Anyway, the titers for Bart stayed up, markers for the other issues came down, so he may be right. However, it is still possible that inflammatory levels are due to any one of these. One thing the MP stressed, and I think is true, is that inflammation can be very local.
Anyway, I'm being forced to wear my dark glasses, so my 1,25 D must be dropping, whether I want it to or not.
posted
Your new Dr says that You haven't really treated the Bart? He's got to be kidding. From all the reports I've read, Rifampin and Bactrim are both effective drugs against Bart. One problem might be that you didn't treat it long enough. 4 months is often the minimum, and it can take up to a year or longer when it's really entrenched. You said the the titers came down, and that you had improvement in many areas that were all Bart Sx's. That says right there that it was working. It might just be that you need another 2 months of Tx or so.
Cipro is no guarantee either, as There are Tx failures with the quinalones also, esp if he's going to use it as a monotherapy. I don't think that I would Tx Bart with only one drug, no matter what it was. I wish you luck in getting it!
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
riversinger
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4851
posted
I know, I've watched the dabate rage on Bartonella for quite some time. As far as my titers, they were never high, and only came down one dilution. I think we are all travelling in the dark here, and there is no one way it will work.
Yes, I think Rifampin had an impact. Maybe treatment wasn't long enough, but the staph has also become resistant to the Rifampin, so probably a good time to switch anyway. Meantime I am still following the neurotoxin protocol, which has had the biggest impact on symptoms of anything I have done yet.
Diana
Posts: 202 | From vancouver, canada | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
riversinger
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4851
posted
Diana, it is using cholestyramine to bind fat soluble toxins and remove them from the body. If things are complex, there are a few more steps, such as using Actos to lower cytokine levels, and treating a nasal staph colonization, which I mentioned above.
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic