My daughter was diagnosed with Lyme and coinfections three years ago. I was diagnosed about a year ago, though my symptoms are very liveable. My son, 10 years old was just tested at my request because, mainly, I've been concerned with his rages. Any minor frustration can result in him totally tensed, veins protruding from neck, way out there angry. NO violence though. Very difficult to parents,a nd he is my third so I do have experiences to compare to. He occasionally complains about leg weakness and elbow and knee pain. Nothing debilitating, but worrisome. I'm confused because I just got his test results back...haven't seen them, but the office said totally negative for Lyme, by Igenex western blot, but positive for Ehrlichiosis and Bartonella. This is a famous LLMD. I htink they would have mentioned a positive band, if even 1. How common is it to be negative for Lyme while positive for other tick born illnesses? I thought the rages would be more indicitive of Lyme. He's pretty healthy otherwise, if not somewhat inacitve. Any comments? Thanks, Lisa
Posts: 24 | From California | Registered: Jan 2006
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groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304
posted
Hi Lisa
From my experance the tests are perty useless-- In my openion the test cause more harm than good because docs say - -Hay the tests came back ok- so your OK-- I had may tests done and the only thing that was even slightly wrong was a nucluar antibody was high-- 20 years ago--
I had WB done by Igenx 6 months ago and it came back IND--(Indertiminate)
I saw the lyme bullseye bruse 20 yrs ago --started getting sick in a week or so-- I have lyme and babs--
Lyme and coinfection have to be diagnosed by-- Symptoms ONLY--
Use tests Only to Conferm desease Not to Rule Out--
Also a false positive is Not very likely-- False negitives --a dime a dozen--
If you LLMD uses WB test to rule out disease --get a New doctor--
Everything you read on this site will tell you the same as I just stated--Jay--
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Worthless tests & labs, a dangerous vaccine, insurance companies refuse to pay, undertreatment the norm, all about money. MO. Posts: 281 | From CT | Registered: Oct 2005
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
The odds of being positive for Ehrlicha and Bartonella and NOT Borrelia are small. Please look at the specific bands on the Western Blot and post them here for comment.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Okay, I got further information. IgG 18+ 31 ind 39 ind 41++ 58+ IgM 18+ 31 ind 41 ind 66+ To my understanding, 18, 31, and 39 are all specific bands. Isn't this a very weak positive, though? Lisa
Posts: 24 | From California | Registered: Jan 2006
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5dana8
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posted
here is a site from a LLD that further explains a westernblot
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
IgG 18+ *18-kDa p18 flagellin fragment An outer surface protein. 31 ind 31-kDa OspA [specific for Bb] saw something?=ind 39 ind *39-kDa BmpA [specific for Bb] saw something?=ind 41++ *41-kDa FlaB Flagella or tail. This is how Borrelia burgdorferi moves around, by moving the flagella. Many bacteria 58+ *58-kDa (not GroEL) Heat shock protein.
IgM 18+ *18-kDa p18 flagellin fragment common IgM bands in early disease An outer surface protein. 31 ind 31-kDa OspA [specific for Bb] saw something? =ind 41 ind *41-kDa FlaB saw something?=ind 66+ *66-kDa P66 Oms66 Hsp outer/integral membrane protein Heat shock protein. This is the second most common borrelia antibody
He probaly has it maybe you should get him on high dose {for his size} of abx do a 3 day urine test and at the end of the week retest Western Blot that way the antigens are freed up unattached from spirochetes because you killed them with abx.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
mlkeen
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1260
posted
Lisa-
I think your gut is right. My llmd would treat your son based on symptoms and would say the blood work supports the diagnosis. We would also be treated for cos.
SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Your information is only partially correct based on what I know from Dr. Jones writings. The specific bands are:
18 23 30 31 34 37 39 83 93
With these:
IgG 18+ 31 ind 39 ind 41++ 58+ IgM 18+ 31 ind 41 ind 66+
You have 18, 31, 39 with IGM and 18 31 41 with IgM. I would consider this a positive test, especially in the presence of coinfections and clinical symptoms. 31 is a big one and IND means it was NOT negative. It may just be that you are not producing antibodies and with treatment, the results could swing much more positive.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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riversinger
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Member # 4851
posted
Bartonella is commonly seen to cause rages and other kinds of psychiatric problems. While your son may have Lyme, it is important to treat these other coinfections as well.
Please don't discount these other infections! They are often overlooked, and can be as important, if not more important, than Lyme!
posted
Yes, I've read that even one specific band would be considered postive by a LLMD.
New question: From the symptoms I've described for my son, would you start antibiotics right away, or first try some alternative approach, like herbs. His system is so pure right now; never had any medication other than over the counter allergy meds. Can herbs alone work succesfully for a kid who is pretty much functional? I'm thinking I might start with that and see if there are any changes. Lisa
Posts: 24 | From California | Registered: Jan 2006
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
quote:Originally posted by Lisa B.: Yes, I've read that even one specific band would be considered postive by a LLMD.
New question: From the symptoms I've described for my son, would you start antibiotics right away, or first try some alternative approach, like herbs. His system is so pure right now; never had any medication other than over the counter allergy meds. Can herbs alone work succesfully for a kid who is pretty much functional? I'm thinking I might start with that and see if there are any changes. Lisa
He probaly has it maybe you should get him on high dose {for his size} of abx do a 3 day urine test and at the end of the week retest Western Blot that way the antigens are freed up unattached from spirochetes because you killed them with abx. If he is infected the longer you wait the worse it is to get rid of.And treat let alone other symptoms will develope.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
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