hardynaka
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posted
I don't know if everybody already know about it, but I've been reading the Rain-Tree homepage the whole day and found out that there are a few plants (besides quinine) that are used for malaria.
A list of them: quinine, simarouba, amargo, vassourinha, epazote, fedegoso, graviola, guava, pau d'arco, pic�o preto, andiroba, chanca piedra, abuta, erva tost�o
This company looks 'serious' and Buhner recommends it in his book.
Selma
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5dana8
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Hey Hardnaka
Thanks for the information. Rain-tree has good products but didn't do the diggin about malaria herbs yet.
Have to back to their webb site.
Do they give science re-lated articles? Or is it mainly about their products.?
Do you know if Quinine water is the same herb as Quinine?I could have the spelling's mixed up. I have heard some posters drink quit alot of Quinine water.I wonder if that would be just as good as taking the herb?
I like pau'd'arco for detox but didn't know it was for the treatment of malaria.
I am interested now,as I am doing a treatment for babs,from which I understand is similar to the malaria organisum.
Many Thanks
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hardynaka
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Hi Dana, yes they have a few articles, I haven't read them yet though.
I grew up in Brazil, and I do know quite a few of the trees/ plants/ herbs from their site. I took many of them in tea already while I was there, some like boldo, erva cidreira, carqueja, espinheira santa are know to almost everybody.
"An agent used to treat malaria and/or kill the malaria-causing organism, Plasmodium sp.: Quinine, simarouba, amargo, vassourinha, epazote" These are top five plants used for the specific property/action (in order).
I think they mean that the most confirmed plant which is used against malaria (that they sell) is quinine (I'm not sure about other spellings...), second is simarouba, etc.
Plants documented by research (against malaria): Abuta, amargo, andiroba, chanca piedra, epazote, fedegoso, graviola, guava, pau d'arco, picao preto, quinine, simarouba, vassourinha (alphabetic order only)
Plants documented by herbal medicine only: Amor seco, anamu, annatto, damiana, bitter melon, carqueja, gerv�o, guaco, jatoba, manac�, mullaca, mutamba, sarsaparilla, scarlet bush (alphabetic order only)
Selma
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Don't forget wormwood (Artemesia). There are two types of artemesia both seem to work. Combined with Quinine they can cure over 95% of malaria.
Then throw in some magnets or electromagnets and you will be 100% successfull. Do a google for washington state university malaria magnets.
Malaria cannot process the iron in the red blood cells so it builds up in them. When the iron passes a magnet it rips thought the malaria and kills it.
The same works for Babesia, but I could not prove that because it has not been studied in clinical trials.
Also Tonic water or quinine water does contain quinine and does work. However the added sugar or sugar substitutes are a problem.
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hardynaka
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posted
Hi Bobdavis,
Thanks for the interesting post on malaria magnets! I googled it, but found nothing really.
Would you know the link?
"Also Tonic water or quinine water does contain quinine and does work. However the added sugar or sugar substitutes are a problem."
Ah, now I understood the question from the previous post. I had forgotten tonic water have quinine inside!
But would that be in a good concentration to do the job? Anyway, it's easy to purchase pure quinine too.
Selma
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Where do you purchase pure Quinine? I have tried Canada and Mexico. The only sources that I know of are in Africa. The quinine in tonic water is very diluted, but it still works!
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hardynaka
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posted
Hi all, I thought my post was clear, but, no... Too sleepy while posting here. I found that Rain-tree sold quinine and other anti-malarials, that's why I posted first here!
All plants I cited then are sold by Rain-Tree. Qunine and all the others considered anti-malarials too (but quinine is still number one in their 'order'). I think 20$ one pound package. Don't know if they have capsules though...
Don't worry, I'm not a sales person. I just got my first package from them this Saturday!
Many recommended the company, they're respectful for the environment, and I find their homepage very informative and they do seem 'serious'.
High quality cats claw is also available, as well as sarsaparilla/ smilax, pau d'arco. 1 pound powder packages are not expensive and they deliver fast. They don't have capsules of everything though.
Here's the copy paste:
QUININE Family: Rubiaceae Genus: Cinchona Species: officinalis, ledgeriana, succirubra, calisaya Synonyms: Quinaquina officinalis, Quinaquina lancifolia, Quinaquina coccinea Common names: Quinine bark, quina, quinine, kinakina, China bark, cinchona bark, yellow cinchona, red cinchona, Peruvian bark, Jesuit's bark, quina-quina, calisaya bark, fever tree Parts Used: Bark, wood
From The Healing Power of Rainforest Herbs:
QUININE HERBAL PROPERTIES AND ACTIONS Main Actions Other Actions Standard Dosage treats malaria relieves pain Bark kills parasites kills bacteria Decoction: 1/2 to 1 cup reduces fever kills fungi 3 times daily regulated heartbeat dries secretions Capsules: 2 g twice daily stimulates digestion calms nerves Tincture: 1-2 ml twice daily kills germs
The genus Cinchona contains about forty species of trees. They grow 15-20 meters in height and produce white, pink, or yellow flowers. All cinchonas are indigenous to the eastern slopes of the Amazonian area of the Andes, where they grow from 1,500-3,000 meters in elevation on either side of the equator (from Colombia to Bolivia). They can also be found in the northern part of the Andes (on the eastern slopes of the central and western ranges). They are now widely cultivated in many tropical countries for their commercial value, although they are not indigenous to those areas.
TRIBAL AND HERBAL MEDICINE USES
Cinchona, or quinine bark, is one of the rainforest's most famous plants and most important discoveries. Legend has it that the name cinchona came from the countess of Chinchon, the wife of a Peruvian viceroy, who was cured of a malarial type of fever by using the bark of the cinchona tree in 1638. It was supposedly introduced to European medicine in 1640 by the countess of Chinchon, even before botanists had identified and named the species of tree. Quinine bark was first advertised for sale in England in 1658, and was made official in the British Pharmacopoeia in 1677. Physicians gave credit to the drug and, because of its effectiveness with malaria, it was recognized officially even while the identity of the tree species remained unknown. Several years after the "Countess's powder" arrived in England, it arrived in Spain. There, quinine bark was used by the Jesuits very early in its history and due to the influence of the Company of Jesus, the newly named "Jesuit's powder" became known all over Europe. When the plant was finally botanically classified almost one hundred years later in 1737, botanists still named it after the countess for her contribution. Throughout the mid-1600s to mid-1800s quinine bark was the primary treatment for malaria and it evidenced remarkable results. It was also used for fever, indigestion, mouth and throat diseases, and cancer.
Natural quinine bark is still employed in herbal medicine systems around the world today. In Brazilian herbal medicine quinine bark is considered a tonic, a digestive stimulant, and fever-reducer. It is used for anemia, indigestion, gastrointestinal disorders, general fatigue, fevers, malaria and as an appetite stimulant. Other folk remedies in South America cite quinine bark as a natural remedy for cancer (breast, glands, liver, mesentery, spleen), amebic infections, heart problems, colds, diarrhea, dysentery, dyspepsia, fevers, flu, hangover, lumbago, malaria, neuralgia, pneumonia, sciatica, typhoid, and varicose veins. In European herbal medicine the bark is considered antiprotozoal, antispasmodic, antimalarial, a bitter tonic, and a fever-reducer. There it is used as an appetite stimulant, for hair loss, alcoholism, liver, spleen, and gallbladder disorders; and to treat irregular heart beat, anemia, leg cramps, and fevers of all kinds. In the U.S., quinine bark is used as a tonic and digestive aid; to reduce heart palpitations and normalize heart functions; to stimulate digestion and appetite; for hemorrhoids, varicose veins, headaches, leg cramps, colds, flu, and indigestion; and for its astringent, bactericidal, and anesthetic actions in various other conditions.
PLANT CHEMICALS
In 1820 two scientists, Pelletier and Caventou, isolated an alkaloid chemical in the bark which provided the highest antimalarial effect and named it quinine. Once discovered, methods were developed to extract only the quinine alkaloid from the natural bark to sell as an antimalarial drug.
The South American rainforests benefited from the income generated by harvesting cinchona bark for the extraction of this alkaloid from the bark for the manufacture of quinine drugs. In the middle of the 19th century, though, seeds of Cinchona calisaya and Cinchona pubescens were smuggled out of South America by the British and the Dutch. The calisaya species was planted and cultivated in Java by the Dutch and the pubescens species was cultivated in India and Ceylon by the British. However, the quinine content of these species was too low for high-grade, cost effective, commercial production of quinine. The Dutch then smuggled seeds of Cinchona ledgeriana out of Bolivia, paying $20 for a pound of seeds, and soon established extensive plantations of quinine-rich cinchona trees in Java. They quickly dominated the world production of quinine and, by 1918, the majority of the world's supply of quinine was under the total control of the Dutch "kina burea" in Amsterdam. Huge profits were reaped - but Bolivia and Peru, from whence the resource originated, saw none of it.
The upheavals of the Second World War led to changes in the market which still remain in effect today. When Java was occupied by the Japanese in 1942, the Allies' supply of quinine was cut off. South American sources of cinchona trees and quinine bark were once again in demand, but new plantations were planted by the Allies in Africa as well. This dire shortage of quinine fueled research for developing and producing a synthetic version of the quinine alkaloid rather than relying on the natural bark. In 1944 scientists were able to synthesize the quinine alkaloid in the laboratory. This led to various synthesized and patented quinine drugs which were manufactured by several pharmaceutical companies and which were of course, highly profitable. Today, Indonesia and India still cultivate cinchona trees; however Africa, with their expansions of the old WWII plantations, has emerged as the leading supplier of quinine bark. Much lower on the list of producers are the South American countries of Peru, Bolivia, and Ecuador, still struggling to compete. Although all cinchona species are good sources of quinine, C. succirubra and C. ledgeriana are the species containing the highest amount of quinine alkaloids - which is why they are the species of choice for cultivation today.
The cardiac effects of cinchona bark were noted in academic medicine at the end of the 17th century. Quinine was used sporadically through the first half of the 18th century for cardiac problems and arrhythmia and it became a standard of cardiac therapy in the second half of the 19th century. Another alkaloid chemical called quinidine was discovered to be responsible for this beneficial cardiac effect. Quinidine, a compound produced from quinine, is still used in cardiology today, sold as a prescription drug for arrhythmia. The sales demand for this drug still generates the need for harvesting natural quinine bark today because scientists have been unsuccessful in synthesizing this chemical without utilizing the natural quinine found in cinchona bark.
The main plant chemicals found in quinine bark include: aricine, caffeic acid, cinchofulvic acid, cincholic acid, cinchonain, cinchonidine, cinchonine, cinchophyllamine, cinchotannic acid, cinchotine, conquinamine, cuscamidine, cuscamine, cusconidine, cusconine, epicatechin, javanine, paricine, proanthocyanidins, quinacimine, quinamine, quinic acid, quinicine, quinine, quininidine, quinovic acid, quinovin, and sucirubine.
Table: Alkaloid Content Comparison by Cinchona species Species Total Alkaloids (%) Quinine Content (%) C. calisaya 3 - 7 0 - 4 C. pubescens 4.5 - 8.5 1 - 3 C. officinalis 5 - 8 2 - 7.5 C. ledgeriana 5 -14 3 - 13 C. succirubra 6 - 16 4 - 14
BIOLOGICAL ACTIVITIES AND CLINICAL RESEARCH
Interestingly enough, natural quinine extracted from quinine bark and the use of natural bark tea and/or bark extracts are making a comeback in the management and treatment of malaria. Malaria strains have evolved which have developed a resistance to the synthesized quinine drugs. It was shown in early studies that an effective dose of natural quinine bark extract elicited the same antimalarial activity as an effective dose of the synthesized quinine drug. Scientists are now finding that these new strains of drug-resistant malaria can be treated effectively with natural quinine and/or quinine bark extracts. As evolving pathogens develop widespread resistance to our standard antibiotics, antivirals, and antimalarial drugs, it is of little wonder that the use of the natural medicine in quinine bark is being revisited, even by such giants as the World Health Organization.
A recent use for quinine drugs has been for the treatment of muscle spasms and leg cramps. A 1998 study documented the beneficial effects of quinine for leg cramps, with tinnitus being the only documented side effect. In 2002, a double-blind placebo study was undertaken in which 98 people with nocturnal leg cramps were given 400 mg of quinine daily for 2 weeks. The results stated that quinine administered at this dose effectively reduced the frequency, intensity, and pain of leg cramps without relevant side-effects. This use has fueled the natural product market and more people are looking for natural quinine bark as an alternative to the synthesized prescription drugs for this purpose.
CURRENT PRACTICAL USES
Quinine bark is harvested today much as it has been for hundreds of years. The tree trunks are beaten and the peeling bark is removed. The bark partially regenerates on the tree and, after a few years and several cycles of bark removal, the trees are uprooted and new ones are planted. The commercial quinine market today is difficult to calculate. It is thought that 300-500 metric tons of quinine alkaloids are extracted annually from 5,000-10,000 metric tons of harvested bark. Nearly half of the harvest is directed to the food industry for the production of quinine water, tonic water, and as an FDA-approved bitter food additive. The remainder is utilized in the manufacture of the quinidine prescription drug. Quinine is very bitter tasting and commercially sold tonic waters often use quinine as it's bitter ingredient/component. Commercially-produced tonic water usually contains around 100 to 300 parts per million quinine and up to a maximum allowable concentration of 70 milligrams of quinine per liter.
The longstanding natural remedy for quinine bark usually calls for a cup of boiling water to be poured over approximately 1-2 g of ground or chopped natural bark and allowed to steep for ten minutes. A cupful of this infusion is drunk half an hour before meals to stimulate the appetite, or after meals to treat digestive disorders. The use of pure quinine at large dosages can be toxic. The reported therapeutic oral dose for quinine alkaloids in adults is between 167-333 mg three times per day. Reportedly, a single dose of 2-8 grams of pure quinine alkaloids taken orally may be fatal to an adult. Natural bark teas prepared in the traditional manner, however, have a long history of use without toxic effects. A cup of traditional quinine bark tea would provide approximately 100 mg of total alkaloids, including quinine (based upon an average of 5% total alkaloid content in the raw bark).
The history of the cinchona tree provides a perfect example of how a natural product can go from folklore and indigenous use into world trade-and then into the drug market. It's also a perfect example of how indigenous peoples and countries with important natural resources are too often pirated and left out of the profit loop by industrialized nations and rich, multinational, profit-driven organizations. Despite the fact that quinine and quinidine drugs were patented and sold, Peru and Bolivia - from whence the discovery was made and the resources extracted - did not share in the patents or resulting profits. Their natural resources were smuggled out and profitable world markets were created from them. They were poor, developing nations without multinational backing or investment capital - and ended up at the bottom of the heap while competing in a global market for resources indigenous to their countries.
While governments are making inroads and new laws concerning biodiversity and intellectual property rights to correct this situation, business still has a long way to go to "do the right thing." Ideally, if natural quinine bark makes a comeback in the growing natural products industry or new drugs are developed for these drug-resistant strains of malaria, these new laws will protect the natural resources of these developing nations.
QUININE PLANT SUMMARY Main Preparation Method: decoction Main Actions (in order): antimalarial, bitter digestive aid, antiparasitic, antispasmodic, febrifuge (reduces fever)
Main Uses:
for malaria as a bitter digestive aid to stimulate digestive juices for nocturnal leg cramps for intestinal parasites and protozoa for arrhythmia and other heart conditions Properties/Actions Documented by Research: anti-arrhythmic, antimalarial, antiparasitic, antiprotozoal, antispasmodic, bitter digestive aid, cardiotonic (tones, balances, strengthens the heart) Other Properties/Actions Documented by Traditional Use: amebicide, analgesic (pain-reliever), antibacterial, antifungal, antiseptic, astringent, digestive stimulant, febrifuge (reduces fever), insecticide, nervine (balances/calms nerves), neurasthenic (reduces nerve pain)
Cautions: It contains quinine alkaloids that are toxic in large doses. Do not exceed recommended dosages. See other contraindications in main plant section.
Traditional Preparation: One-half cup bark decoction 1-3 times daily or 1-2 ml of a 4:1 tincture is taken twice daily. One to 2 grams daily of powdered bark in tablets or capsules can be substituted if desired. See Traditional Herbal Remedies Preparation Methods page if necessary for definitions.
Contraindications: Quinine bark contains naturally-occurring quinine alkaloids. These quinine alkaloids are sold as prescription drugs with numerous side effects and warnings documented in the literature. Do not exceed the quinine bark natural remedy amounts shown above unless you are under the care and advice of a qualified health care practitioner who is familiar with the warnings, side effects, and contraindications of higher therapeutic levels of quinine alkaloids.
Drug Interactions: May potentiate blood thinning medications such as Warfarin.�
WORLDWIDE ETHNOMEDICAL USES Brazil for anemia, anorexia, debility, digestive sluggishness, dyspepsia, fatigue, fevers, gastrointestinal disorders, indigestion, malaria Europe for alcoholism, anemia, antimalarial, appetite stimulant, cramps, debility, diarrhea, enlarged spleen, fevers, flatulence, gallbladder disorders, hair loss, irregular heartbeat, leg cramps, liver disorders, malaria, muscle pain, protozoal infections, and as a antiseptic Mexico malaria, and as an antiseptic, astringent, and tonic US for bacterial infections, colds, digestive disorders, dyspepsia, fevers, flu, headaches, heart palpitations, hemorrhoids, leg cramps, malaria, pain, varicose veins, viral infections, and as an appetite stimulant, astringent and cardiotonic Venezuela for cancer and malaria Elsewhere for amebic infections, bacterial infections, carditis, colds, contraceptive, cough, dandruff, diarrhea, digestive sluggishness, dysentery, dyspepsia, fever, flu, glandular disorders, hangovers, hemorrhoids, lumbago, malaria, neuralgia, pain, pinworms, pneumonia, sciatica, septic infections, sore throat, stomatitis, tumor (glands), typhoid, varicose veins, and as a insecticide, insect repellent, stimulant, and uterine tonic
References:
Aviado, D. M., et al., "Antimalarial and antiarrhythmic activity of plant extracts." Medicina Experimentalis--International Journal of Experimental Medicine 1969; 19(20), 79-94. Lung, A. and S. Foster. Encyclopedia of Common Natural Ingredients 1996. Wiley & Sons: New York. Man-Son-Hing, M., et al. "Quinine for nocturnal leg cramps: a meta-analysis including unpublished data." J. Gen. Intern. Med. 1998; 13(9): 600-6. Diener, H. C., et al. "Effectiveness of quinine in treating muscle cramps: a double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel-group, multicentre trial." Int. J. Clin. Pract. 2002; 56(4): 243-46.
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hardynaka
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posted
hi Bob,
thanks for the link on magnetic fields, interesting stuff!
Selma
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posted
It makes me sick that 2.7 million people die every year when quinine, wormwood, and magnets can all be employed for only a few bucks to stop these deaths.
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posted
I think the maximum safe dose of Quinine is 2 grams per day. The good news is it kills the bugs first. I think a liter of tonic water has something like .07 grams.
That is to say that if you are healthy more than 2 grams can kill you. If you have babesia or malaria it will kill them first.
I cannot remember that well but the dose was something like 2 grams the first day then 1 gram a day for like 6 days. It should be taken with wormwood (artemisinin). I do not remember the artemisia dose at all.
Real quinine varies in strength depending on the amount of moss that is growing on the bark.
Most doctors use plaquinil. It is a synthetic quinine but the strength is fixed preventing under and overdoses.
If I remember right quinine pills are no longer sold over the counter in this country. They were banned after a study showed that synthetic quinine did not stop leg cramps (the only over the counter use).
You can buy empty capsules and fill them yourself? You can add it to tonic water to make if more effective.
I am not a doctor nor do I play one on TV!!!! See a Duck first.
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5dana8
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Member # 7935
posted
Hey Bob Davis Thank you so much for the information on quinine.I do take plaquinil & didn't know it is a synthetic version of quinine.
I have been drinking the tonic water today but it is making me nauseated.
I guess to get close to 2 grams you would have to drink alot if the tonic water..
Thanks again take care
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posted
While you are looking up quinine things, check out blackwater fever.
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klutzo
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Member # 5701
posted
Dana, You might want to try Quina from www.nutramedix.com. It is an extract, not a powder, and quite strong. Klutzo
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posted
I found this abstract on sci.med.diseases, yr. = 2001,
Dr. Horowitz worked on different approaches in the attempt to cure Babesiosis in humans. Below is one paper that showed his exploration of one method. Rita HIGH DOSE TRIMETHOPRIM-SULFAMETHOXAZOLE THERAPY: A USEFUL ADJUNCT TO COMBINATION THERAPY IN TREATMENT RESISTANT BABESIOSIS Richard Horowitz, MD 12th Int. Conf. on LD & Other Spirochetal & Tick-borne Disorders April 1999, New York City BACKGROUND: Krause described persistent parasitemia after acute babesiosis when patients were given Cleocin and Quinine (C + Q) (NEJM 7/98 Vol 339, 160-165). Horowitz described significant clinical improvement among chronic Lyme patients co-infected with Babesia microti when given Atovaquone and Zithromax (M & Z) (Abstract, 11th International Sci. conf. on LD, NYC, 4/98), however persistence of Babesia DNA & RNA has been noted with both regimens despite repeated courses of both antibiotics (Horowitz, RI: Abstract, 12th Int. Conf. On LD & Other Spirochetal & Tick-borne disorders, NYC, NY 4/99). Gupta et al describe parasitemia resolving with the addition of high dose Trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole (T/S) to a regimen of Atovaquone, Cleocin & Quinine (Am. J. Hemat. 50:60-62, 1995). This report describes an improved treatment regimen for resistant Babesiosis using high dose T/S in combination therapy. METHODOLOGY: Babesia microti infections were diagnosed among a cohort of 30 chronic Lyme disease patients using both IFA and PCR/RNA analysis (27/30 patients were PCR and/or RNA positive). Patients were divided into 4 treatment groups, using either low dose T/S (Bactrim DS, one QID) or high dose T/S (two QID). Most patients had already received either C+Q or M+Z alone, and patients self selected their treatment regimen based on their prior tolerability of the drugs. Group I received Cleocin 600 mg. TID + Quinine 650 mg. TID (C+Q) for 7 days with low dose T/S for 7-10 days. Group 2 received C+Q + high dose T/S for 7-10 days. Group 3 received Atovaquone 750 mg. PO BID + Azithromycin 600 mg. PO QD (M+Z) for 21 days with low dose T/S during the last 10 days of treatment, with Group 4 receiving the same regiment with high dose T/S. PCR and/or RNA analysis was performed post-treatment in all 4 groups, and success or failure was defined according to persistent parasitemia as evidenced by PCR/RNA positivity post treatment. RESULTS: 22/30 patients (73%) completed the treatment regimen, with 2 patients switching from high dose to low dose T/S secondary to GI intolerance. 7 patients (23%) dropped out secondary to nausea, vomiting, rashes and/or flaring of symptoms. One patient was lost to follow-up. PCR and/or RNA analysis was able to be obtained on 18/22 patients completing the study. Group 1 (low dose T/S) had 3 failures and 1 success. Group 2 (high dose T/S) had 1 success and no failures. Group 3 (low dose T/S) had 5 failures, and no success. Group 4 (high dose T/S) had 7 successes and only 1 failure. Overall the high dose T/S regimen (groups 2 & 4) had an 89% success rate, while the low dose T/S regimen had an 89% failure rate. CONCLUSIONS: High dose T/S when added to either C+Q or M+Z significantly improved the eradication rate of Babesia microti. Lyme disease patients with chronic persistent symptomatology may be co-infected, and those patients who cleared their parasitemia as evidenced by PCR/RNA negativity post-treatment showed significant sustained clinical improvement. GI tolerance was generally poor, and routine use of anti-nausea agents is recommended, with M+Z being better tolerated than C+Q. M+Z with high dose T/S may therefore represent an effective, better tolerated 1st line treatment for chronic persistent babesiosis.
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my $1-garage-sale hard cp of the merck index, 1996, lists berberine as an anti-malarial, antibacterial, bitter stomachic. i recall having seen this sold online as berberine sulfate, and is used by naturopaths.
its from the plant hydrastis canadensis L.beridacaeceae (last word mispell.) whose common name escapes me, but its off the shelf in health food stores, at least in extract form.
early on in lyme, when i was largely ignorant of the tbds, i did a sublingual, alcoholic extract of this by drops,and developed a flushing sensation in my face,upper back, and some other less distinct to vague Sx. i stopped it, did a glycerin extract of this herb, with no flushing reaction. the interpretation, according to the lyme lit. is a lyme-induced intolerance to alcohol.
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posted
berberine is from the herb golden seal.
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blinkie
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Member # 14470
posted
I found this is the archives. Has anyone done a regimen with high dose Bactrim DS?
Long term, I can't tolerate bactrim, but maybe I could pound a ton of it for jsut 10 days??
Obviously, I would not do this without my LLMD's approval.
Just curous if and Dr H patients or anyone else has done anything similar to beat babesia?
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