posted
I know, Scott, the better health guy tried the high doses of artemisinin as recommended by Dr. K.
Has anyone else tried it? Results? The protocol is 1200-1500 mg per day for 3 days. Repeat in 2 weeks and the then do two days per month.
I know some say it will be bad for you and I won't be able to detox. Just want to get well--QUICK! Hiker
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10183 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Even though I did it, and will do it again every two weeks as indicated for a few cycles, I would listen to your body. The more Babesia you have, the more likely you are to have a difficult time. I did ok with it as did another friend with Lyme that also recently did it. However, if there is one thing I have learned, QUICK is not a word in the Lyme vocabulary. Every time, I try to go too fast, I learn my lesson.... Listen to your body.....
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Hey hiker53 I think that is good advise . Fast isn't alwys good.
On that note I tryed to up my atemisinin and I puked.
I think you have to go by body weight. I weigh in now at 95lbs and 1000 was too much for me. I'm back down to 8oo a day. And thats my limit.
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Selma from Switzerland is on the HIGH DOSE now.
She tried it earlier and had a hard time, but has been doing better the second time around.
I am on a low dose of only 300mg a day right now, but am considering upping it, as I have finally got my Red Root tincture to go along with it to clean out my Lymph system. I don't think I would try a high dose without the Red Root. Just asking for trouble if you do.
posted
Anyone know the reason behind this protocol??
CaliLymer
Posts: 215 | From CA, USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Hi, I did it twice, as follows:
First time, I did 900mg/day, divided in 3, empty stomach, far from any supplements. I'm thin (45kg, and I had read somewhere that that was the dose for malaria). I had a lot of herxes, but supposedly from lyme (arthritis got stronger) and also felt very jittery and nervous. Then diarrhea (maybe due to parasitic killings due to artemisinin?)
Then, after pausing for a while, continued taking low dose Artemisinin for a while (100mg 3x day)as my arthritis was getting better (not for babesia). Then paused again.
After a little more than 2 weeks first cycle, I read the thread about Dr.K's high dose recommendation and did the 2nd cycle: -1000 mg, first day (head 'explosions', but not too bad, no diarrhea, little jittery, no strong herxes) -1200 for 4 days, no strong reaction, except that I felt lyme was being killed by it as arthritis is then almost totally gone. Paused.
I'll be also doing a third cycle in 2 weeks of 1,200mg, then maybe another in a month.
I did it parallel with salt/C and turmeric. I may try third time with another antimalarial called 'amargo' or 'quinine'.
It's a strong extract, and as it kills also lyme (in my case), better get used to it for a few days, pause, then do the high dosage. If you don't pause, some say it is not too efficient. Have in hands all cleansing stuff in case herxing is too strong.
Many don't recommend artemisinin alone as babs can get resistant, but as I had to do everything by myself and I had taken before Riamet to kill most of it, I did it anyway.
Night sweats disappeared after Riamet, but night chills came back slowly, that's why I tried Artemisinin. At 900mg, I don't recall having head 'explosions' as with 1200mg. Could it be babsesia is still there?
Now my body is very used to it, not the case in the first days... So better go slowly. But I love artemisinin!
I dont' feel lower long doses have any effect on night chills as higher short doses.
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
I upped my Artemisinin from 300mg a day to 600mg a day, today. No problems so far.
Taking a little more Red Root, also.
CALILYMER: WHAT protocol? HIGH Artemisinin or WITH the Red Root?
posted
I did it for 3 days. 1400 mgs. divided into 4 doses. Also kept taking malarone and tindamax along with it.
I didn't notice much of anything one way or another. No strong herxing, but no improvement either. Oh yeah - almost forgot - Artemisinin increases my sweating a LOT. But that's all it seems to do. No improvement.
I'm wondering if I should bother trying it again next week. ??
Posts: 81 | From NJ | Registered: Mar 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
CLC:
It is recommended that you do it again in two (2) weeks after the last time. AND you can repeat that again, IF necessary.
Don't forget that many of the symptoms for Babesia AND Lyme are the same, so once you feel you have done what you can do with Babesiosis, concentrate on the Lyme thing with Herbs and Abx.
posted
I've just done my 1st 3 days of 1200mgs. with no problems. Are there anymore updates from those who've done repeats?
Posts: 175 | From ma. | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
My doctor asked me to do it 2 weeks on, then two weeks off, same cycle as when I take ketex. So, for these two weeks I take omnicef, 600mg ketex, and artimisinin. I did not jump into large doses of it, although Im on a high dose now.
Before I switched to artimisinin I did two or three cycles but with Flagyl.
For the first cycle when I switched I only had artimisia tincture which isnt as strong. I didnt know Id have to mail order and not get artimisinin locally. My health food store herb consultant said to start out slow with the tincture, as people can have die off reactions, so I did.
Next cycle I had Artimisinin, but did not take too much, it was 100mg capsuls, so maybe 2or 3 a day.
THird cycle I found out that she had wanted me to do 3 at a time, but I still forgot to find out what dose, so I did 3 in morning, and 3 in the evening of 100mg capsuls.
I did not herx much that last cycle, so for this one, I mail ordered the twice as strong capsuls. I have been taking 1200mg, divided into two doses, for almost a week now. This is along with my 800mg of Ketex and 600mg of Omnicef. One more week to go.
I weigh about 107 lbs. This time I am herxing, but it is tolerable. Worse joint herxing tahn Ive had in quite a while. But, that is much more tolerable than too much neuro psych stuff. Even if I cant carry my purse or lift my arm up high enough to tape a package closed... At least Im not ready to kill someone over it.
I think the slow ramping up was helpful for this.
Im not familiar with the protocol ya'll are referencing, how many high dose cycles are recomended ? I was wanting to ask for an ABX break so I could heavy metal detox, starve candida and eat real food...
Forgot to mention, I also went back to taking chlorella a few days ago to help with detaox, 15 of the little sun chlorella tabs before a meal at least a couple times a day.
Posts: 222 | From Santa Cruz Mountains, CA USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
I missed this thread the first time around. Please let me tell you that Dr. K. does not use or recommend this for everyone. He strictly adheres to what he feels a patient can handle. Overdoing it has never worked.
If you do go an a killing spree: The thing most overlooked by everyone, including all the LLMD's, don't care who they are, the underestimate the need to handle the die-off. The die-off is what makes you sick, not the killing. And the die-off can stay with you long after spirochetes are long dead.
So consider any of the mop-up agents: Lots of chlorella pyrenoidosa, or chlorella vulgaris for the people who have digestive problems with pyr., apple pectin as much as you can put into your ground up apples, juice, or whatever, chitosan several times 30 min. before meals with lots of water during day, or cholestyramine, or Betasitosterol.
If you do not use the mop-ups, the neurotoxins are partially or all reabsorbed and you start feeling sick problem all over again. Don't forget colonics - I don't care if I get shot. Not doing these things is what makes people stay sick and have these ups and downs.
If you have taken medicines for a long time, a few months, or a months only, your liver starts to be congested, and the longer you wait, the more damaging it becomes. The more colonics you will need to reach the upper body areas to get them to clear, to get the liver to dump what it has been holding onto for probably a very long time. Please do ignore it. It may not be all too comfortable the first couple of colonics, but you will quickly start to reap the benefits as you go after more neurotoxins. The spirochetes are long dead, and the neurotoxins are still in you. It is estimated that they can hang around for many years after the ketes are dead.
Take care
A protocol as shown on www. neuraltherapy.com is not meant for everybody. A lot of the info is really on that site for doctors/practitioners who are students of ART and who are refreshing their memories. So you have to read it in that context.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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quote:Originally posted by JimBoB: CLC: Don't forget that many of the symptoms for Babesia AND Lyme are the same, so once you feel you have done what you can do with Babesiosis, concentrate on the Lyme thing with Herbs and Abx.
--That's a good point. With artimisinin, at times I took 200mg twice daily. And sometimes 100mg artimisinin and 500mg raw artimesia. I'd stay on for 3 or 4 weeks and take a week off, usually still on atovaquone at those times. I seem to have nailed it, even though I don't have a spleen (which makes babs much more dangerous.) DaveS
Posts: 4567 | From ithaca, NY, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
THIS is an old thread.
Since I reported on THIS thread, I reported on another when I was taking 1200mg a day. BUT you only do that for three days. Then repeat after two weeks, IF you feel it is necessary.
NOW I am taking whole herb Artemisia annua at 1200mg a day. BUT you NEED more of that to do any good. I will probably stay on this for a month. Then stop for awhile, about 2 weeks, then go on 600mg a day for a month. I am taking it for more than Babesia.
But NOTICE: I would NOT take ANY Artemisinin without RED ROOT tincture. THAT is MORE important than the Artemisinin. Like GiGi reported above, you MUST clean out the killoff. RED ROOT is what Stephen Buhner recommends in his book Healing Lyme, Naturally.
posted
I'm a little worried that the unsteadiness that I thought had to do with the Mino is really the Babs. and it seems to be getting worse.
I just did 3 days of 1200mg. Artemisinin and am bummed that it apparently didn't address the Babs issue. Dr. K's protocol called for grapefruit juice which I somehow overlooked and hope that didn't blow the whole effort.
I'll talk with my LLMD, but I don't want to go back on Malarone, which I've been on for 8 months.
I don't think I'll be able to wait the 2 weeks I'd planned to, to do the next round of Artemisinin....
Any thoughts on what to do?
Posts: 175 | From ma. | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I did 1200mg for 3 days w- good results. Strong herx. Had to work up to that dose though.
As per my Doc.(Dr.P), Arteminisin is a lyme cystbuster. That's why you herx. You don't herx from babesia. Arteminisin also has excellent rapid penetration. Must be the reason for the neuro and joint pains I get when on it. Posts: 3 | From CT | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
In countries where they are taking artemesinin for malaria, it is recommended that it be taken in combination, not alone, for resistance reasons. Kinda think this is true for babesia also.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Dr. K.'s favorite longterm mild but effective med is PC-Noni for Babesia. I have posted about it repeatedly. You can put it in your daily drinking water jug and sip away at it during the day. This is not Noni juice as from the store. It is an extract of the total plant in concentrated form. Biopure has it. You can add the different Artemesinin protocols as well. And you can add the Riamet, most need a couple of courses, which is only available in Germany.
One of the major tools is the KMT microcurrent which inhibits the metabolic activity of Babesia. I used the Babesia channel which incorporates all the subtypes (at least 17) of this organism. Most eye, dental and brain problems are brought about by these. The channel runs for about 45 minutes. It might be a bit different on the newer KMT's. This multi approach worked very well for me - without having any ill effects whatsoever. I used to have to change my linens and nightgowns three times a night. Babesia was a nightmare for me.
I do not think that a single remedy will do. Most Dr. K. patients that I have become friends with follow a similar regimen to eradicate Babesia.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I just did a 30 day paraway cleanse that consists of taking 1320 mg of artemesia along with black walnut and cloves. I didn't notice a reaction but I don't think I have babesia (running the kmt frequency just in case though!)
Diana
Posts: 202 | From vancouver, canada | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I have been taking 6oo mg artemesinin 2 times daily along with mepron and zithromax. Been doing this for 1 1/2 months and do not have any reaction of any kind. Nothing!
Wondering if I'm a freak or bionic woman Posts: 85 | From Eugene | Registered: Jun 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
I repeat: Take the Artemisinin at 1200mg, or even up to 1500mg, but ONLY for three days straight. THEN take two (2) weeks off. Then REPEAT the cycle, as many times as necessary.
DO NOT take the Artemisinin STEADY for longer times. AND do NOT take it without Red Root tincture or something Similar, to clear out your LYMPH system.
You are NOT going to make progress IF you do not clean up your body. ALL parts MUST work together. And they won't, IF they can't.
Read the book. IF you can't read or comprehend, have someone, even a duck, read it to you and help you.
You SHOULD be making progress, every day, otherwise you will NEVER get better, or even "feel" better.
posted
Hi JimBob, I now think that the unsteadiness was from the Mino, which I've stopped for a few days and the unsteadiness is gone.I'll be starting that at only 100mg. instead of 300mg. and slowly ramp up.
I'm also currently taking ceftin and flagyl(pulsed 5 days on,2 off) which gave me the runs.
I think I'll wait until that subsides and then start more slowly with the flagyl.
My LLMD had me stop the Bruhner herbs except Resvertrol and Sarsaparilla for now.
I was supposed to begin including the Pleo homeopathic stuff, but had enough going on with my new regimen.
I continue to include the alkyline and oxygen drops, detox tea, Phos Chol, Vits. and Marine oil.
I think that about does it.Seems like I need a score card to keep track...
Oh, then there's the probiotic, Candex, RechsReg.and I'm sure I'm forgeting something....
The irony of course is that my mind, or whats left of it, has never had to work so hard to keep track of so much (plus life)!
I've also found an interesting source for Artemisinin at Holley Pharma. so will use theirs for my next round of 3 days.
Take care....
Posts: 175 | From ma. | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Oh, yes I tested positive on the fish(?) test for Babs. at Igenex and when I asked my LLMD if I could be retested to find out if the Babs was gone, he said there is no test to tell for sure.
I never had raging symptoms for Babs, no sweats or bad chills, just dizziness and an odd very brief chill that would come on me around 5pm or so.
At night I would sometimes peel back one layer(we sleep with 3 or 4 blankets and the window open in the winter) and then quickly get cold and need to put it on again, but that's it.
Posts: 175 | From ma. | Registered: Aug 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Hi Lucy: It is up to you of course WHAT you do exactly, but I can only report what helps me and what Buhner recommends in his book.
THe only vitamins I take right now are the 3000mg+ of Vitamin C and Vitamin E of 400 IU.
THey are both recommended antioxidents. With such high amounts of Vitamin C, Buhner recommends the Wholesale Nutritions C-Salts which is an excellent effervescent Vitamin C that is very easy on the stomach. I had to go to it with my stomach problems.
I am sorry to hear your LLMD does not believe in using the more natural medications. I personally feel MUCH better using them over antibiotics.
I got sick of feeling sick.
So I quit abx about 6 weeks ago. AND I feel much better for it. I went off herbs last week and felt okay for a few days, but got back on as soon as I could. I started herxing when I got back on them for a couple of days, but much better today.
I did run out of Andrographis a couple of days ago, as my new supply hasn't gotten here yet. Sure hope it gets here by Monday, as it is probably the most important herb to take for Lyme. It is number one on Buhner's List. I ordered it in bulk this time to make my own pills. Shouldn't run out again.
I am back to full bore on the rest though.
Keep us posted. Hopefully you will be able to get back on the other BUhner recommended herbs real soon, too. So you can feel better soon. I only feel good when on herbs only, NO abx.
posted
Hi JimBob, My LLMD was the way I found out about the Buhner herbs. I was on them for 4 months and now he has me taking a break.
I do not herx and so feel that I either didn't have a huge "load" to begin with and/or am able to detoxify well enough.
I'm sure he will have me using them again and have a nice store on hand.And of course, I'm not off all herbs either.
Glad you are finding continued success with the protocol.
Posts: 175 | From ma. | Registered: Aug 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Hi Lucy:
Glad you that you found an LLMD that is not so hung up on just abx. The more I read and experience the more I feel abx are our ultimate downfall. (Mankind in general).
Thanks for your encouragement too. I will keep on the herbs as long as I am feeling better and seem to be getting it cured. Someday I hope to get the dosage down to a low dose also.
Until then it is about 80 pills a day, plus C-Salts, Sali-Pipe and Red Root tincture, soon to add Periwinkle tincture again.
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