posted
I went to my LLMD last week since my IGENEX wb was positive (for IGG) and had some bands for IGM. I had lyme in 1994 (treated 2 weeks IV Rocephin) and again in 2000 (treated 4 weeks of IV Rocephin). I have been on various oral abx thruought the years but have never felt 100%. THe past 2 years I believe I have declined. My dr. suggested 3000 mg of amoxicillin (3 months)and he said that Columbia Presbyterian lyme drs are recommending this as the treatment. My case seems to be chronic and I am hoping that I can get better with this high dose. Has anyone had success with this abx, and can I expect to herx. What happens when you herx. Any advice will be appreciated.
Posts: 11 | From Douglaston, ny | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Many have sworn on Amoix as being very helpfull. Others have not had that much help with it. I was on Amox 3 grams a day some time back. It did not help in my case. Watch your symptoms on it.
Posts: 582 | From milwaukee wi | Registered: May 2005
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Areneli
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6740
posted
I have used 12 g of Amoxycillin per day. No doubt that a lot of Bb got killed, herxing was terrible, but it was not a cure.
Later I went to other abx.
PS Amoxycillin is non toxic and can be given in much higher doses.
Posts: 1538 | From Planet Earth | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
thank you for your replies. how did you feel like when you herxed? Was it right away or after a week or so on the abx. I hope this high dose will work. Honestly I felt the best when I was on the IV. It helped almost immediately but once the 4 weeks were up that was it. Downhill... Is there an abx comprable to Rocephin but in oral form??
Posts: 11 | From Douglaston, ny | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I am on Ammox 400mg per day as well as Bicillan shots, malarone, and Bactrim...
I wonder if you should be treating co infections
Posts: 437 | Registered: Sep 2004
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Mispy1:
I am going on Amoxicillin next month once I am done with my Doxycycline. I had Tetracycline last month. Tetracycline was terrible on my stomache, but doxy is better. Hoping Amoxi will be okay too.
IMO no antibiotic will cure you once your Lyme is chronic. IT is a MUST to go on herbs then, along with some abx to get rid of the main killing. Check out my Herbal post from a couple of weeks or so ago.
I can hardly wait till I am done with the abx. Herxing is not too bad, BUT I felt MUCH better on herbs alone.
Right now I am treating for Babesiosis, even though I have not been tested so don't know for sure IF I have it or not. But about 80% of the people who have Lyme have Babesia also. Therefore, since it is acknowledged that you can't get well very easy until you treat it FIRST, THAT is what I am doing.
Then I will get back to my Lyme Protocol. I am only off Andrographis right now, so am still getting most of the herbs for Lyme yet. Also the doxy will work with Lyme also.
The Artemisinin is good for killing the Babesia. But MAKE SURE you take Red Root along with it to keep from herxing so bad as it keeps your lymph system clear and working good.
posted
I was on Amox 3000mgs a day when this started heavy for me back in 1994. Unfortunately it was either a treatment failure or the herx's was just too horrific to handle my LLMD and I couldn't figure out which one it was but I was on it for 3 months and I ended up bedridden so he took me off and put me on IV claforan for 3 mos which I did better with..
posted
thank you all for the responses... I just hope things work out with this. I have been on doxy also and that was 2 years ago but no more than 2 months. I really can't say if that did anything. what abx is used for bartenella?? will amoxicillin owrk for bartonella or is doxy better? Since bein on this high dose any suggestion concerning diet and herbs to take to work with the abx??
Posts: 11 | From Douglaston, ny | Registered: Mar 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Not sure IF any abx will work very well with bartonella.
Recommended herbs are Polgonum Cuspidatum (Hu Zhang, chinese Knotweed), Bone Set tea, and Red Root tincture.
They should work for you.
I would NOT go on ANY antibiotic for more than 28 days at a time.
trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
hi mispy!
We can be amoxy buddies! i am on it now. 3,000mg too! But I am also taking Probenecid--it makes the blood levels of the amoxy stay higher so you dont have to take tons of it to achieve the high concentrations in your system needed to really knock them OUT.
May want to ask you doc about this.
Look at Dr. B's new guidelines in Treepatrol's newbie links at the top of this board.
He specifically speaks about amoxy and probenecid.
He does not say it is used for any other Co's.
I am herxing harder and in more pain than I have been in YEARS.
I am also taking Plaquenil which changes the bodies Ph balance and allows for better cell wall penetration and cyst busting. Dr. B does NOT speak about this though. dont know why?
I have had IV Roc in the past too! And I felt like it gave me my life back. Wish insurance would pay for it now.
Nice to meet you! Trails Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
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In Dr. B's "Advanced Topics in Lyme Disease" report (Sept 2005) he says that levaquin is the treatment of choice to treat bart. He also talks about adding a proton pump inhibitor to possibly increase its effectiveness.
-David
-------------------- Same nightmare, different day! Posts: 401 | From East Coast | Registered: Nov 2005
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trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
what is a proton pump inhibitor?
Oh I just found out it is like Prilosec.
I thought folks here said NO NO NO to those drugs...they create dependency and stange reactions within the gut???
Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
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BostonLyme2005
Unregistered
posted
I was on 1500mgs a day of amox., for almost 3 months... I had some slight herxes if that is what you want to call them.... In Nov., I started same dose, but only Tetracycline.... Within days my sleep improved greatly...My right leg had violent spasms..... I felt better somewhat....BUT THEN............
The real herxes arrived, and well equipped with pain and suffering..... If you want to know if someone is suffering from Lyme, give them Tetra for some time, and sit back and watch what happens.....
I have been herxing ever since...I have had a few days where I feel wonderful, but I go back to the pain again...
There are ups and downs in this Lyme road, no way around it... Some people say they dont herx at all, maybe they just not have been ill for more than a few months...
In any event, amox. will help it from growing, but Tetra. will kill the bastards far more...
I am staying with the Tetra for now, I have no probs with the meds...
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AZURE WISH
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 804
posted
Many years ago I took amoxicillian.... but a much lower dose ....
this was before I found my LLMD
new symptoms appeared and old ones got much worse ...I was almost paralyzed.
It did not help the lyme but it did make me gain weight. I lost 7 lbs in 3 days of coming off it.
Herxes are different for everyone. And even the same person can herx different on different antibotics.
So just because one person had this or that experience doesn't mean you necessarily will.
Plus some people (lucky ones)dont herx at all ..... they just get better.
Areneli
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6740
posted
My herxes started right 72 hrs after first dose or any dose increase as a matter of fact. They lasted about 4 days. I didn't jump into 12 g per day; I started with 4 g per day and increased the dose weekly.
Posts: 1538 | From Planet Earth | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
The antibiotics (abx) kill good bacteria along with the bad bacteria, so it's necessary to replenish the good bacteria to keep the digestive system in balance. Otherwise, you'll probably develop a systemic yeast infection (Candida).
Be sure to take a couple capsules of high quality Acidophilus with each meal EVERY day. If you take abx with meals, plan snacks between meals to take the acidophilus.
page 30 also has additional info on "Managing Yeast Overgrowth".
Very important - Be sure to have at least 2 hours between the abx & acidoph (before & after) or it won't be able to help you. I always plan my acidoph so I have my last dose 2 hours after my last dose of abx in the evening. Then it has all night to help before hitting it with more abx in the morning.
Also, eat very nutritious foods & eliminate as much sugar & carbohydrates as you can.
Be sure to drink lots & lots of water to help flush the toxins out of your system. Some recommend a squeeze of lemon juice to help the acid balance in the body.
Posts: 4638 | From South Carolina | Registered: Mar 2001
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
Hi Mispy.
My doc (same as Trails' doc!) had me on a few months of 3000 mg of Amoxy PLUS Probenecid. I distinctly recall many weeks of thinking my head would explode. Fortunately, it did not.
Alternatively, maybe it did, but I forgot.
Everyone's different, so we'll hope you will have a mild time of it!
Once things "levelled off" a bit I found it relatively easy to tolerate and was so glad to get off the freaking Doxy and GET BACK OUT IN THE SUN and go fishing again that I didn't care what I was on!
Sounds like your previous doctors treated you for rather short periods! Now you have an LLMD, so keep treating till you are symptom free for a few months. Dose up on probiotics every single day, watch carbs, and post often!!
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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Nancy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 95
posted
Amoxicillin has been a "miracle drug" for me!
I have been on high-dose Amoxy for two years, and it has turned my life around. I did not see major improvement until I reached the 3500mg daily mark. Then, with every 500mg increase, more and more symptoms disappeared. I managed to make it up to 5,500mg daily, along with 1000mg Biaxin and 400mg Plaquinal.Total brain fog lifted at the 4000mg mark!
It is a much gentler drug than most prescribed, but, for me, it was the way to go.
Nancy
Posts: 1487 | From New England | Registered: Oct 2000
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Nancy2: WOW, I can't believe such high doses of Amoxy you are on!?!?!?!
I am thinking of going on 1500mg a day for 28 days, and am wondering IF that is too much.
TWO years on it? WOW. ARE you CURED NOW???
Are you OFF of all abx now? Sure hope so. I have had the Lyme for over 6 years now, but only treated way back in 2000 for 24 days with Cipro.
NOW started up again in Novemeber 2005 after relapse. Mostly herbs at first, but some abx for now, the last 6 weeks and for the next 6 weeks, then back to herbs only.
Sure HOPE to be cured by or before next fall.
MY brain fog lifted after about a week or so on herbs only. How long did it take for yours to go?
posted
I meant to write I take 4000mg not 400 mg of ammox a day split into 2 doses....I have herxed on and off with it.
It helps along wioth the bicillan... I love bicillan ...it has saved my life and of course the babs treatment is also crucial as well as treatment for any other coinfection... to get all the way well its very important....
Nancy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 95
posted
JimBob:
When using Amoxy, high doses are needed to cross the blood-brain barrier. THAT is what I believe made the difference..the higher dose.
It was around the 3500mg daily mark that everything started to turn around. I would increase every two weeks by 500mg, and with every single increase of 500mg more symptoms would just disappear.
Amoxy is a "safe" drug compared to some, and a little easier to take then most.
I have just begun to taper off ABX in the past few weeks. We are going slowly....I have dropped 1 Biaxin and 1 Amoxy, and will decrease one Amoxy every three weeks. Am also taking some mushrooms and green tea as well as astralagus to try to get my immune system built up a little.
Hope this helps.. Nancy
Posts: 1487 | From New England | Registered: Oct 2000
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Thanks for the info, Nancy.
WHAT did you start out at for the FIRST week on the Amoxicillin?
I guess I am not TOO interested in the blood/brain barrier thing, as the herbs took care of that right away when I started taking them last November. I am mainly interested in KILLING any spirochetes that are in my system now.
I think once I am off ALL abx, I will "feel" better too. Will find that out in a couple of months for sure.
I only have 100 250mg amoxicillin capsules, so when THEY are gone, that will be it for the amoxy.
I have almost two weeks to go on the doxy yet, then a week off of any abx, then on to the amoxycillin. Then it should be JUST herbs and vitamins the rest of the way.
JWF and his wife did it on herbs only, so there is hope also for those who don't respond good to abx or can't take them because of stomach problems.
Nancy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 95
posted
JimBob:
I actually started out at 1500mg daily (3 500mg tabs.) I was on that dose, with no effect seemingly, for about two months, when we decided to go for the 'big guns".
From what I have read, 3000mg daily seems to be what most LLMD's prescribe, sometimes along with other ABX (ie: Biaxin). I got myself up, with MD's guidance, to 3000mg, feeling a little better, but wanting to try a higher dose to see what effect it would have.I figured it would either kill me or cure me!
BAM..as soon as I got to 3500mg I started loosing some symptoms. And, again, every single time I upped it by 500mg two or three symptoms would just go away. Got up tp 5500mg daily, and there I stayed for two years. (To me, it was amazing, as I had alot of neurological involvement.)
Though everyone is different, 1500mg was not a help to me. Is there any way you could perhaps order Amoxy out of country if you don't have a prescribing MD?
I followed Art Doherty's protocol and Dr. B's guidelines for Amoxy use, where Dr. B states that doses of up to 6000mg may be needed. Art Doherty (you can perhaps do a search here with his name or maybe just Amoxicillin)was finally put into remission by using high-dose Amoxy, 6000mg daily.)
Hope I have helped you here, JimBob!
Nancy
Posts: 1487 | From New England | Registered: Oct 2000
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trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
You can also take probenecid which allows the blood levels of Amoxy to remain at up to double the doseage taken!
Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Thanks again, Nancy:
Like I told you in the PM that the Herbs helped me with the bb situation almost right away on very low dosage, so I am just thinking of using the Amoxicillin for the Lyme Spirochete destruction thing. AND using it instead of others just to have something different to "fool" the Spirochetes IF possible.
I am going to start out slow and see what happens. I CAN order more from pet outfits, reasonable IF I think I will NEED more, I guess.
Unlike many, I am depending MOSTLY on the HERBS to lick this thing, with the abx secondary in my Protocol. With the abx used as SHORT term only.
posted
I was reading the book "Coping with Lyme Disease by Denis Lang and it said that Amoxicillin by itself will not cure a co-infection like Babesia or Erlichyia
Posts: 204 | Registered: Jan 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Thanks Christine.
NukeGirl:
I don't think ANy antibiotic will cure Lyme by themselves, except in the case of early detection and aggressive treatment.
I feel it is super important to use herbs and some vitamins along with them to do any real good.
Many of the better, more creative LLMD's agree with that statement.
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