posted
A couple of years ago, I read a lot of hopeful posts from people who were trying samento.
I don't read as much about it these days.
What have your experiences with samento been?
Successful, & would try it again?
Unsuccessful & would not try it again?
Better than antibiotics in results or side effects?
Worse than antibiotics in results or side effects?
Thank you. I need an alternative to abx because every organ in my body now swells painfully from almost any antibiotic.
Posts: 172 | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by hiker53: I tried the TOA free cat's claw with no success
Me too.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Samento, or TOA-free Cat's Claw was highly touted because of a lone in vitro study done a few years ago, but never duplicated by others.
According to Buhner in his Healing Lyme book, it is incorrect to assume that Samento is better than Cat's Claw. You will actually lose other good attributes of the whole herb if you use the Samento.
Do NOT take antacids with it though.
I have been using WHOLE Cat's Claw from the beginning. You can get some herxing on it, but not bad from what I can see. I take two (2) 1000mg tablets, three times a day for a total of 6000mg a day right now. I have been taking that much for about two months.
I will continue on that high dosage probably for about two more months, then will cut it back, along with the other herbs I am taking and see HOW FAR i can get down to, and still feel good. Can't say for sure what will happen till I get there.
For the most part we are better off with WHOLE herbs, the way they are in nature, to get the most out of ALL of the beneficial elements in them.
Extractions lose many parts of the whole herb AND also COST MUCH MORE. Use the extra money for other beneficial herbs and "natural" vitamins.
The ONE exception to this that I can think of is Artemisinin compared to Artemesia annua whole herb. It is the Artemisinin that comes from the whole herb and is the most potent of the elements of the herb in treating Babesia. So I would recommend the extraction here. The whole herb would work but you will have to make teas, etc., so will be more work for you.
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
I think it is incorrect to say that it works in one form and doesn't work in the other form. That has little to do with it and I think we should only put that on paper if we really know 100% that it is so. In my experience it is not so. Many of you that think they are going to totally succeed with a handful of different herbs will be surprised when it does not happen.
Yes, they work beautifully, if all the underlying negatives are looked at and treated effectively.
No Samento alone - whichever form you choose - is going to do away with your Lyme Disease. The people that started it a few years ago use many, many other side protocols with it. The test that was done on twenty-some people included all -- heavy metal detox, emotional clearance, geopathic stress and electromagnetic stress clearance, allergy problems, nutritional deficiencies, etc/ etc/ I am very familiar with the M.D. who started this protocol that included Samento and I know with all certainly that he covers all the other problems that need to be addressed with Lyme Disease.
It is never just Lyme Disease any of us is dealing with. If you get that into your head, maybe then you will not expect miracles from one simple little remedy, such as Samento.
My doctor happens to use PC-Samento very heavily, but he uses it alongside many other treatments that have to be addressed before any success can be achieved. This is the case with 99.9% of the people. I have never seen it done any other way. It was the same with my treatment --- many therapies finally put me over onto the good side and I was well. I am still well today almost five years later now.
This is not an aspirin headache we are dealing with where one type of pill might alleviate the symptoms. It is a multi-faceted disease, and I do wish people would finally get that into their head. If your doctor is not addressing other problems, he is missing the boat.
Nobody has ever said that Samento alone gets rid of Lyme Disease. Especially not the doctors that have been using it. Most of them are very aware of the fact that all the underlying problems to this disease have to be addressed before there can be any or a total reversal.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
GiGi: Are you sayig that this is a rich man's disease? That only the people with LOTS of money, one way or the other can HOPE to be CURED from it?
I do agree that a few handsful of herbs will not cure most people. IF you have chronic Lyme, it will take many, many handsful of herbs to do it. AND best along with SOME abx for a time, also.
I am also of the opinion that Buhner's "CORE" protocol is not enough by itself for Chronic long-time Lymies. I would and have gone to his Expanded Protocol plus even a little bit more.
PLUS a mimimum regimen of different abx for a few months total with breaks every 28 days.
THAT is why I asked one poster above if he/she used anything else with it. We can't get any REAL insight into what someone has or hasn't gotten benefit from, IF we don't have the "rest of the story".
dontlikeliver
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4749
posted
Hi JimBob,
My LLMD at the time had me on ONLY Samento at the time. He believed, back then, but I think he's changed his mind now, in avoiding antibiotics.
DLL
Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003
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Areneli
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6740
posted
Cat's claw didn't work for me; took 8 g per day. There was no herxing and no improvement.
Posts: 1538 | From Planet Earth | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
I did the Nutramedix liquid Cat's Claw twice. The first time I did it by itself and worked up to about 30 drops a day in two divided doses....nothing.
Just recently my doctor had me do the Cumanda, Cat's Claw and Burbur protocol. I did it for a few months and nothing again.
Not sure if I'm a good example though as nothing has worked.
Posts: 52 | From California | Registered: Aug 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
What I am trying to say (and have said for five years on this board) is:
If you have a jaw infection; if your body is harboring heavy metals that sit on the ligand sites of the hormone-producing cells (so they can't produce the necessary hormones anymore), Samento or any other agent, not even antibiotics alone, taken over many months, will cure you from Lyme Disease.
You cannot push the Lyme and other microorganisms back to a level where your own body can regenerate and gain the upper hand again and you start feeling normal again. As long as these other and environmental toxins are present, it is extremely difficult, impossible, to become totally normal again.
It was not - it was never just the tick bite that got us sick. It was a number of factors that brought all this misery on.
It is not a rich man's disease. I am not rich - my husband and I live on Social Security! You put off fixing your house or building the new barn until after you have done what's most important - laid the groundwork for better health by fixing what is wrong with your teeth and whatever it takes to switch to a healthier lifestyle.
Herbs work wonderful. If you look at the list of things we worked with (I posted it several times), we worked almost exclusively with plant materials or natural remedies - not drugs. Our drug intake was very limited. Our major problem was teeth and dental repair that was inadequate, done improperly, and caused us problems.
Since I know from experience that that is a problem with a huge number, almost every one, of Dr. K. patients, I firmly believe and know that without fixing these problems, the teeth, it is almost impossible to regain total health.
I know several people on this board took their amalgams out years ago, but never went through an adequate, if any, mercury detox, that normally takes a couple of years if done the right way.
Same with a number of other exposures -- you can take all the herbs you want, if your bed is in a bad sleeping location, if you are exposed to electromagnetic stress, if you live around microwave towers (cell phone towers), getting well is extremely difficult and just can't happen. The autonomic nervous system that controls everything in your body is under stress as long as you live with these type exposures.
If you have not learned to forgive your neighbor or your x-husband and carry that around with you, healing is difficult.
It takes healing everything - everything - that got us ill in the first place. You ask why are not all people getting so deathly ill from a tick bite --------- that's the answer - because not everyone lives in the same way many of us do or did. We learn, we make changes, we fix. That's what you got to do --- don't wait for the miraculous herb to fix it all.
That's my intended message. Not rich or poor. Where there is a will, there is a way.
Dr. K. works will all the herbs, many more that have been added since I was sick, but he suggests to many people to see the dentist first because he has figured out that it is a prerequisite to healing. He has treated chronically ill people close to thirty years. He knows where the bugs are buried.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Gigi:
MY point was, MANY of us do NOT have any insurance, NO savings, NOT making $20,000 or more a year, yet, WHAT do WE do to eliminate this Lyme thing?
I HAVE to LIVE on $555 social serurity a Month. Period. I have NO savings, NO insurance of ANY kind. IF our house burns, where do we live? IF I have a car accident, WHAT do I drive, or HOW do I pay for damages? IF I get sick, how do I go to the hospital? I DON'T do ANY of these.
I could sell my house, but I live in central Wisconsin. I can't live on the street here. It is going to be about 10 below zero tomorrow night and the next night too. WHO can live outside in THOSE conditions? So IF I sold my house and got enough money to spend $20,000 to $50,000 on an LLMD and a GOOD dentist; then WHERE will I live?
My car is worth less than $200, so WHAT would I drive IF I sold it to PAY for treatment? I am fortunate to live in a state that says you DON'T have to have car insurance to be able to drive on the public roads. IF I had to have it, I wouldn't be able to even drive, making living in the country next to impossible in this day and age.
I did sell an old car project at a slight loss last fall on eBay, so I could even buy a bunch of herbs and antibiotics. But now THAT is gone too. There are people out here who do not even have THAT to depend on. THEN what? Please don't say there are government programs to help them, because with Lyme, there really isn't, at least not for many of us. I tried; many times.
SO, IF we can't search out the very "best" in dentists, and/or LLMD's, what do WE do? Punt? Many of us couldn't even afford the football to do so. AND IF we could, we wouldn't have the energy to kick it. Really.
I/WE do thank you for this LAST post GiGi, it certainly has helped to "clarify" YOUR thoughts on this whole "what to do for Lyme" situation.
KEEP them coming.
Glad to see, YOU and Dr.K are leaning more and more towards the herbs for healing though. I for one can hardly wait till I can get OFF the abx. I personally don't know HOW some on this list can and have been able to hang in there on abx all the years they have been on them. Ugh!
lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
Ive tried enzymatic therapys samento..
hell of a herx!!!
Now im on NOW regular cats claw,,, less of a herx followed by a clearer mind and less pain after the herx clears.
I littlerally am trying this now and it is helping.
Other drugs im on include,, BIAXIN, DOXY and FLAGYL
I get my name from the biaxin,, no other drugs made me herx like that
I take the flagyl as needed to clear up some yeast and or parasite issues that cause me to be constipated.
As soon as I start taking the flagyl my bowls are long and thick again!
Before that I was having to take laxatives.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Lymeherxoo1
I am also on now bixain & doxy along with some other meds for babs.
I have to agree with you in that this is a killer combo is a killer combo.
It is confusing to me to take the whole the samento/cats claw in whole herb form. And toa free or toa & poa.
I guess omly experimenting with the teeo will do it.
Can you take this along with alot of abx/Does it interfer with abx & meds for babs treatment?
Take care
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Dana: No, it does NOT interfere with any abx that I know of. certainly not doxy.
I have been taking Cat's Claw since November 25, 2005 and have been taking tetracycline and doxycycline along with a whole bunch of other herbs too since then.
I am taking about 75 to 80 pills a day. THe main thing is to take the herbs that HELP you keep your system clear, also. Like sarsaparilla, Milk Thistle, Acidophilus, and Red Root tincture.
You might try Acidophilus also once you get off your Artemisinin and Red Root for Babs. Plus don't forget Resveratrol, Devil's CLaw, and some others that will help with whatever YOUR symptoms are. I also take Nettle Leaf powder, Oregano, Olive leaf powder, Artemisinin, and some others.
klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
I have been on Samento for most of the past two years and recently started alternating with Cumanda. Both products make me herx like crazy. It took a whole year for me to work up to 5 drops per day of Samento, and only after I added Cumanda was I able to get up to the "normal" dose of 15 drops per day. I also take many supplements,as Gigi mentioned. I do not have any coinfections, and I spent a year getting rid of reactivated viruses and getting insulin and thyroid resistance and yeast overgrowth under some control,with the help of a holistic doctor. I am now seeing dramatic improvements 3 weeks out of each month. The other week, my Herx week, is HELL on wheels. I had a serious brain injury before Lyme, and a lot of Bb seems to be hiding out there, so I have a major Lyme rage problem. Even that has improved though, since it only bothers me for 6 days per month now. I have never taken any conventional ABX, since I am allergic to all of them except Cipro. Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
You keep saying this Jim. I am a patient of Dr. K's. He isn't "leaning more and more towards the herbs". He has been using them all along. While the majority of other LLMDs have been hooking people up to IVs full of antibiotics, he has been treating it naturally.
Of course, some prescription drugs are used. In my case, they have been for thyroid, parasites and neurotoxins (cholestyramine).
He leaves the door open to anything that might help and of course, he adds/changes things all the time.
quote:Originally posted by JimBoB: Glad to see, YOU and Dr.K are leaning more and more towards the herbs for healing though. I for one can hardly wait till I can get OFF the abx. I personally don't know HOW some on this list can and have been able to hang in there on abx all the years they have been on them. Ugh!
How did you get rid of the reactivated viruses. I have high tests for HHV6 & EBV IGG & HSV1. My LLMD just tells me he doesn't have much luck with antivirals, and when the lyme is gone my immune system will be able to control the viruses.
I'd LOVE to try what you did for that year.
Thank you. Tempe
quote:Originally posted by klutzo: I spent a year getting rid of reactivated viruses and getting insulin and thyroid resistance and yeast overgrowth under some control,with the help of a holistic doctor. I am now seeing dramatic improvements 3 weeks out of each month. The other week, my Herx week, is HELL on wheels. I had a serious brain injury before Lyme, and a lot of Bb seems to be hiding out there, so I have a major Lyme rage problem. Even that has improved though, since it only bothers me for 6 days per month now. I have never taken any conventional ABX, since I am allergic to all of them except Cipro. Klutzo
posted
Well, TeaquesLADY, I was only going by what I have read on this groups writings, plus a couple of articles I read by Dr. K a few months ago.
I just got done reading his lastest, updated on 1-7-06 and I see he has much of Buhner's protocol listed now. I did not see this before.
Regardless, the main thing is HE too recommends herbs, more and more. As a matter of fact, I just read where he says, he doesn't understand all there is to know about this disease either. Course, WHO does? Also he says that man-made medicines are "dumb" and plant medicines are "smart".
I AGREE!
I would further inject that those who tout the man-made medicines as the saviour of our world, medically speaking, are "dumb" also.
I re-iterate: "I can hardly wait, till I am off the antibiotics".
klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Hi Tempe, First, my holistic doctor used AK (muscle testing) to test me to see which viruses I had. They were: HHV6a CMV Coxsackie B3 Ekrongruben fiber (tick virus)
Then he ran water through an MHA machine, which is kind of like a Rife mahcine, in that it matches the vibrational frequency of the organism you want to kill. This was run through the machine at the frequency of all of my active viruses, put in homeopathic vials, and I drank them each day for a month.
Then he AK tested me again to see if I was still positive. I was not.
Whether my viruses were actually killed by this, I do not know, but it was pretty cheap, about $55, and had no side-effects.
What I do know, is that I agree with what your LLMD said, ie. that as Lyme is killed off, and the immune system returns to balance, the viruses will be beaten back into dormancy. That should happen once TH1 immunity is no longer supressed by Lyme.
I take Samento, which modulates immunity, and should help this to happen faster. You could also try Colostrum for this purpose.
What really helped me most of all the things I got from the holistic doctor were Armour Thyroid, low dose DHEA, and L-tryptophan at bed time. I would not be without them. The thyroid alone doubled my energy in the first two days.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
I dont want to jinx myself here,, but ive been taking the cats claw whole herb now every day for 2 weeks about.
THinks are looking better!!!
My skin is less in pain,, i have some less brain fog and no burning in my feet after eating.
Its definitelly doing something.
My LLMD sugested I try it because my last test of my natural killer function was 2.
This was even lower then what it was 6 months ago.
Ive has some herxes and I get a headache about an hour after I take it,,, but then things get better.
I was so supprised today,, I dont advocate it but I went out for mexican food today,,,, Lots of fried crap.
99 out of one hundred times I would get burning and nueropathy and air hunger from eating this food.
Today all I got was some brain fog. Everything else was ok for that matter.
So im sticking with the cats claw!!!!!!.
Also there was a day last week where the constant brain fog cleared up for like a couple hours.
It felt like "summer" Thats the only was I can describe it. It felt like I hadent felt that way mentally in about 6 years.
I felt almost like a child. It was beutiful.
Then it was back to fog city. Im realizing again how for most of us,, life is one big fog with a dysfunctional immune system and lyme.
The brain fog is always there,, it just lets up a little at points.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
pps...
I still have typos though....here comes the fog
that damn muffin!!!
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
LymeHerx:
Glad the Cats Claw is working for you. IF I were you, I would ALSO add Devil's Claw to the Cat's Claw, as I feel IT helped my brain fog even more than the cat's Claw, and I hope you are already taking Sarsaparilla, as that is super important to keep your blood cleaned out so you don't herx so bad.
THose were the first herbs I started on, and did wonders for my symptoms almost right away.
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