posted
i would not be willing to add meat or anything to my diet, but is it possible that something like my carnitine is defecient because vegetarians are more likely to have this, and supplementation can help? are there other things. i am okay for B12 and iron apparently... other stuff, i have no clue.
Posts: 244 | From Ottawa | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
as a long-time former vegan myself (and a passionate one at that) i strongly urge you to reconsider the strictness of your diet. may i ask what are your reasons for maintaining a strict vegan diet?
if you're interested, i can offer more of my personal experiences.
supplements tend to be hit or miss (too often the latter), while changing one's diet is a much more reliable method for achieving real difference and change
lyme (as well as health in general) presents a very complex set of issues to deal with. and i believe that having a diet based on dogma severely compromises one's attempts to get well. it's not easy, but i believe there are ways to eat animal products in a way that satisfies one's sense of morality. just remember that it's your right to feel well. and humans would not be what we are today if our predecessors were merely gatherers and not also hunters!
mike
Posts: 7 | From S.F. Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
Here is my own experience with Lyme and vegan-ism:
I was a strict vegan for 15 years. I was sick with lyme that whole time, but it had not yet been diagnosed. My symptoms, which were mostly neurological and muscular problems, waxed and waned.
In 2003, one doctor I saw was convinced I was ill due to malnourishment (ie, being vegan) and encouraged me to eat meat. Which I did, in a bid to improve my health.
Very shortly after beginning to eat fish eggs meat etc my lyme became full-blown, ie, I was debilitated to the point of being bed-ridden for weeks with extreme weakness, fevers, and aching, swollen joints.
While the change in diet was not the only factor involved in triggering a worsening of Lyme, I believe it did contribute.
I notice that some LLMDs advise people to avoid certain vitamins, as these can feed the borrelia bacteria. Perhaps the same thing can happen with a rich (ie, animal-food) diet.
I believe this is why fasting is sometimes considered an effective means of controlling disease, ie, you starve the pathogen out. Perhaps a more modest diet somehow modulates the immune system to better fight disease, too. (I dont know of any such research, these are just my observations).
Anyway I eventually got tested, diagnosed and treated for Lyme....and I find myself reverting back to a more vegetarian diet.
Theres my two-cents worth. (1.5 cents canadian ) santa_pax
Posts: 58 | From Planet Earth | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
Cheryl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 75
posted
Zinc. And I wouldn't dismiss B12. Consider a methylmalonic acid assay for this, or supplementation regardless. Also consider nutrient testing at a functional medicine lab (for anyone, not just veg) to determine individualized needs. And good quality multi-vitamin and multi-mineral and amino formulas as well as whatever else you decide for Lyme and Candida.
luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Hello,
I have Lyme and recently was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis. In reading up on it, I came across a strict vegan diet including no added plant oils. My stomach had begun to burn and the theory here was leaky gut syndrome.
Upon switching to vegan diet, not only did my stomach burn go away, but my joint pain lessened considerably.
I'm supplementing B vitamins through a homeopathic remedy. That way it gets straight into my blood stream and not in my gut where the bacteria could absorb it first.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
One of the most positive things that I have done for my health was to adopt a vegan diet. It is very difficult but the pay-off has been wonderful.
My diet is based on the research presented in the book "Eat to Live" by Dr. Joel Fuhrman. Basically he uses diet to treat many ailments including autoimmune diseases like lupus, MS, RA, etc.
I follow the autoimmune diet outlined in this book because I basically have MS secondary to lyme disease. The results have been very good so far and it has only been 2 months.
He is extremely evidence-based, which I respect, and there are almost 40 pages of medical citations in the index. He also debunks many of the "fad" diets that are so popular today.
One thing that he advocates is fasting which I have found to be very beneficial. If anyone has any questions, I would be happy to answer them.
He does recommend taking DHA (veggie based) and a high quality multi with his eating plan.
Posts: 98 | From MA | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
wow thanx for all the info. out of curiousity, have you had any luck finding any veggie DHA/Neuromin that was actually veggie in terms of what the other ingredients contain? i was looking at the 200mg source naturals version, and it had carmine in it. Posts: 244 | From Ottawa | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
Cheryl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 75
posted
Danielb, See the link I posted above for a vegan DHA. Cheryl
quote:Originally posted by danielb: wow thanx for all the info. out of curiousity, have you had any luck finding any veggie DHA/Neuromin that was actually veggie in terms of what the other ingredients contain? i was looking at the 200mg source naturals version, and it had carmine in it.
posted
OMG, how could i forget that i actually looked at that entire link yesterday (not just the neuromins, but also the other products too!)?! *bonk* *bonk* i guess i wasn't registering?!? ugh!!
thanx you so much for it!! i am definately buying some of these!
Posts: 244 | From Ottawa | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
oh i was also just wondering about EPA (as opposed to DHA)... its not really neurogenerative or helps with cognitive defecits, its just for depression right?
Posts: 244 | From Ottawa | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
David95928
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3521
posted
Daniel,
A strict vegan diet is a significant risk factor for vitamin B 12 deficiency.
It can cause pernicious anemia which causes cognitive symptoms, neurological symptoms, and without intervention it can cause death.
A somewhat different manifestation of B12 deficiency is combined, subacute degeneration of the spinal cord. This can cause movememnt problems that, without intervention, can become permanent. The scarey thing is that this has occured in cases where blood testing said that B 12 lelvel was normal. Check out PubMEd.
Other risks for b12 deficiency include chronic infection, excessive stress, and previous stomach surgery.
-------------------- Dave Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
Cheryl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 75
posted
Marine algae. Where do you think the fish get it? EPA is in wakame, but you'd need to eat a lot. DHA can be converted to EPA. It also helps to keep the omega-3 up.
posted
For my own personal beliefs I despise having to eat meat and feel it is unethical...but unfortunately I have found that no matter what, the only way I can feel well and truly get that good source of protein in through meat.
I eat chicken , fish, turkey and eggs... I am not a fan of any of them... I never really liked the taste of meat to begin with, but my body seems to only do well with animal protein.
Posts: 437 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I eat predominitly vegan, and feel it si great for healing. I Got very sick last year while/after doing IV rocephin, I got way out of control candida, lost 15 lbs in one month, and lots of other things....
Anyway, I needed to be very strict against the candida, so I stopped eating fruit and wheat and most other grains, and I needed to stop losing weight, and so added eggs to my diet. In retrospect, I don't think this was necessary. They are not even as high calorie as I initially thought, I think they are only 70cal per egg. A piece of whole wheat toast with nut butter has more calories and other nutrients, including protein, than 2 eggs! The eggs I used were homegrown, not store bought.
Tofu and soycheese and beans are great even for anticandida. Dairy feeds candida, no Lymie on antibiotics should be doing much if any dairy. Meat is hard to digest and generally old, dead, and from questionable sources. I have never heard of any reason why meat would be better for healing than tofu or beans etc...
Before the candida got bad, I had no nutrient problems being vegan. But, after 10months as a ovo-vegetarian, my blood checks started to show borderline anemia. Right, this is after stopping vegan and adding eggs. I researched this and figured out that whole grains have lots of folic acid, which is needed to assimilate iron properly. I was told to cut out most grains, so didnt have a good source of folic acid. I now supplement this, and I have been adding more whole grains back into my diet, eating less eggs, and the anemia is gone.
So, this is the struggle, no matter if your vegetarian, vegan or eat meat, how to have a balanced diet while on antibiotics and not feed the yeast. Grains contain folic acid and other B vitamins that we need.
Right now, I pulse my heavy antibiotics, 2 weeks on and two weeks off, so I can be more relaxed for half the time. And, I only do 100% whole grains, and limit wheat, I liberally use quinoa, buckwheat cereal and buckwheat pancakes and corn tortillas and brown rice. No sugar. No fruit.
So, I would say to supplement with the usual things all Lyme patients take. The only thing different about vegan is B12, and you already know about that. If you find that you have to limit your diet, like I did, then take a B complex with folic acid. I think most Lyme patients take a B complex, lots of Vit C, borage oil, flax oil, magnesium, etc, etc, but his has nothing to do with being vegan
Posts: 222 | From Santa Cruz Mountains, CA USA | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
Daniel,
I am just sharing my experiences. I'm in no way telling you to go this way.
I was a semi-vegetarian for 14 years. I did eat seafood, but primarily ate vegetarian. I began this diet 2 years after contracting Lyme, but I wasn't aware that I had Lyme.
I stopped the diet when I started Lyme treatment to follow an anti-yeast diet. From past experience, I knew I had difficulty getting enough calories on that diet as a vegetarian. This is particularly so because I had pain in my hands and couldn't prepare my own food.
Most of my Lyme symptoms were related to muscles and tendons. I really needed to work on strenghtening muscles to end my pain.
I found a huge difference in my ability to build muscles when I added meat protein in. Of course, I was also eating much more protein. And it may be that I diversified my nutrients.
That's just my story.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by mountainmoma: So, this is the struggle, no matter if your vegetarian, vegan or eat meat, how to have a balanced diet while on antibiotics and not feed the yeast. Grains contain folic acid and other B vitamins that we need.
Liver is an excellent source of folate and other B vitamins. Americans generally don't appreciate organ meats anymore, which is a shame because many are packed with nutrition!
Posts: 369 | From Ohio | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
You may be missing some important protein
I have been using Whey protien powder-sugar free twice a day.
I think it helps.
Keep up the B's but I have heard B-complex may not be good to take with lyme. B12, B6, B1 are all good along with the mag.
Take care
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
switching to a raw organic vegan diet is one of the best things i have ever done for my health and spirituality. i spent years doing oral abx and even a year on iv, which was not very productive. I have had lyme for about 8 years. Many good doctors and even Einstien do not believe that we were meant to eat aniamls. Check out dr. lorraine day, she cured her self of cancer going vegan and natural. "So I am living without fats, without meat, without fish, but am feeling quite well this way. It always seems to me that man was not born to be a carnivore." Albert Einstein
This is a brilliant man whos revelations are still a cornerstone of much of our knowledge and understanding of the universe. For years i ate meat not because i liked it, but because i was brain washed to believe it was important nutritionally. growing up meat would make me gag but i was forced to eat it.
To me its clear now that we are better off not eating meat. there too many benefits to list. for one all of my mostly raw vegan friends dont smell at all in any way. I have literally no need for deordorant or anything, except if im fasting and detoxing then i smell! this is a good thing
There are many many health benefits from being vegan. I even got heavy metal poisining from eating a lot of fish because I didnt like meat. I got high mecury, cadmium, arsenic, and thallium.
I could go on and on about how eating animal products is harmful, and the help you will get from cleaning out. I will post some more later.
About having problems with the diet. This can happen with any diet, reguardless of what you are eating you need to have a complete balanced diet that meets your nutritional requirements. I have been doing this for over a year and have had no problems beyond the small initial detox from switching all at once, and i have been blown away by the results and things that have happened to me with my health and spiritually / psychically.
Posts: 245 | From connecticut, the lyme state | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
)![[puke]](graemlins/puke.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[dizzy]](graemlins/dizzy.gif)
i guess i wasn't registering?!? ugh!!
Printer-friendly view of this topic