posted
From what I have read, Not Necessarily. Lyme is a clinical dx. There is no definitive test for it. However, a positive Western Blot is pretty compelling evidence, especially if there are clinical symptoms.
I am not a doc, just a pt.
-------------------- Jeff Posts: 533 | From CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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the link is not active
Posts: 146 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jun 2005
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
I've read the same thing that JeffM has read, that even a CDC positive Western blot may not mean that you have lyme disease but I would guess that situation is rare.
I think the reason that a CDC positive Western Blot *might* not mean you that you actually have lyme disease is because apparently you can have a CDC positive result and have none of the specific bands show up for Bb. There may be other additional reasons that I'm not aware of.
The only person who can tell you if you have lyme or not is a lyme literate medical doctor because as has been mentioned before, the diagnosis is a clinical diagnosis so it is based on symptoms, history and test results.
If you haven't already, I'd find an LLMD ASAP. Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
I know . sorry about the link,I am working on it
posted
Hi, Coach, Is it your western Blot? what bands are positive? or was it just a general question?..Jill
Posts: 83 | From Northern Illinois | Registered: Feb 2005
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Below is the breakdown of the Western Blot bands: 9 cross-reactive for Borrellia 12 specific for Bb 18 unknown 20 cross-reactive for Borrellia 21 unknown 22 specific for Bb, probably really the 23/25 band 23-25 outer surface protein C (OspC), specific for Bb 28 unknown 30 unknown; probably an outer surface protein; common in European and one California strain 31 outer surface protein A (OspA), specific for Bb 34 outer surface protein B (OspB); specific for Bb 35 specific for Bb 37 specific for Bb 38 cross-reactive for Bb 39 is a major protein of Bb flagellin; specific for Bb 41 flagellin protein of all spirochetes; this is usually the first to appear after a Bb infection and is specific for all Borrellia 45 cross-reactive for all Borellia (sometimes people with Lyme who have this band positive also have the co-infection Ehrlichiosis) 50 cross-reactive for all Borrellia 55 cross-reactive for all Borrellia 57 cross-reactive for all Borrellia 58 unknown but may be a heat-shock Bb protein 60 cross reactive for all Borrellia 66 cross-reactive for all Borrelia, common in all bacteria 83 specific antigen for the Lyme bacterium, probably a cytoplasmic membrane 93 unknown, probably the same protein in band 83, just migrates differently in some patients
No Lyme test is completely reliable and results can vary by lab. Lyme reputable labs often have more sensitive testing and test a greater number of bands. Tests should be used to aid in diagnosis not determine diagnosis. Although the CDC requires a large number of bands to show for the test to be considered positive, many people who have Lyme do not have this many bands show. Often, Lyme doctors focus on which bands show, some are specific for Lyme disease.
I believe in order to be CDC positive you have to have a minimum of two lyme specific bands,meaning only Bb can show up on these bands. Those bands are as follows:
23-25 which are grouped together 31 34 39 41
So if you have at least 2 of these starred on your Western Blot you are considered CDC positive and it must be reported by your dr. You can be positive by having any other 2 bands starred but it is not considered CDC positive. My llmd says he does not believe there are too many false positives from Igenex. Peace!
-------------------- I'm gonna get that lyme !!! Posts: 61 | From Erie, PA | Registered: Dec 2005
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IgM 18 + 22 - 23-25 IND 30 + 31 - 34 IND 37 - 39 + 41 IND 45 - 58 + 66 IND 73 - 83 - 93 -
Posts: 146 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jun 2005
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Thanks for putting the link up 5dana8. I think the information in the link you supplied compared to Dr. B's "Advanced Topics In Lyme Disease" clearly illustrates that there are differing opinions in interpretation of the signifcance of the various bands in the Western Blot.
I typically go by what is listed on the ILAD's (International Lyme And Associated Disease Society) website, mainly because the website seems to represent the views of the prominent LLMD's.
Doesn't mean that the others aren't correct though.
States: you should see at least 41 and one of the specific bands.
Reading the front of my IgeneX Western Blot test:
IgG IgeneX criteria for WB IgG - positive if 2 or more of the following are positive: 23-25 31 34 39 41 93
CDC positive if 5 or more of the following bands are present: 18 23-25 28 30 39 41 45 58 66 93
IGM Reading from the front of my test IgeneX positive if 2 or more of the following are present: 23-25 31 34 39 41
CDC - positive if 2 of the following bands are present 23-25 39 41
Your test results for IgG CDC positive with 5 of the required 5 bands needed.
Burrascano positive with 3 of his specific bands and 41 positive. He requires at least 1 specific and 41.
IgeneX positive with 4 positive bands. They only require 2 of the bands that they list.
So, for IgG, you test positive by CDC, IgeneX and Dr. Burrascano's criteria. You have 3 Bb specific bands and more if you use other, more liberal criteria than Dr. Burrascano's.
On page 6 of Dr. Burrascano's document he states that
"Lyme Borreliosis is diagnosed clinically, as no currently available test, no matter the source or type, is definitive in ruling in or ruling out infection with these pathogens, or whether these infections are responsible for the patient's symptoms. The entire clinical picture must be taken into account, including a search for concurrent conditions and alternate diagnoses, and other reasons for some of the presenting complaints."
There is more but I'll let you read if you are so inclined.
Hope this is helpful and not more confusing. I think your best bet is to see a reputable LLMD in person and let them determine your diagnosis. Terry
[ 21. March 2006, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: TerryK ]
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
my 31 band is strong too. from what i hear, that generally doesn't just come out of nowhere...
Posts: 244 | From Ottawa | Registered: Dec 2005
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Danielb Me to. Band 31 +++ I have read that also.
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
Hi Coach.
Is some doc trying to tell you now that you never HAD Lyme disease to begin with?
Are you doing anything about that foot drop?
'Cause your western blot doesn't leave a lotta doubt in there, and I know you WERE treating with an LLMD.. who stopped treatment after a brief stint of IV, with no follow-up on orals, even though you were still highly symptomatic.
Did you find someone else to help you get better yet?
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I found a new LLMD that I will see next week. Hopefully he will treat me until all symptoms are gone.
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
quote:Originally posted by Aligondo Bruce: Hello, thank you for your question.
A positive WB does not mean you have lyme disease.
It DOES mean you have been exposed to Borrelia, and may have an active or inactive infection.
lyme disease is not a disease, it is a syndrome. The disease is borreliosis.
Ross River virus is another known infectious cause of lyme syndrome.
Thats bull !
Lyme is a disease caused by spirochetes.
Main Entry: syn�drome Pronunciation: sin-drm also -drm Function: noun : a group of signs and symptoms that occur together and characterize a particular abnormality.
Syndromes are usually named those things when they cant find the real cause. Lyme cause is known even if it isnt well known.
Its a system wide attack every organ nerve bone cell is fodder for the spirochetes.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
My LLMD gave me 8 weeks of IV and cut me off, with no further treatment. I asked about more IV or orals and he said no. He said I would get better but I haven't. I found a new LLMD that is affiliated with a major university. Also have a new WB but haven't received it yet.
Posts: 146 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Aligondo Bruce: Hello, thank you for your question.
A positive WB does not mean you have lyme disease.
It DOES mean you have been exposed to Borrelia, and may have an active or inactive infection.
lyme disease is not a disease, it is a syndrome. The disease is borreliosis.
Ross River virus is another known infectious cause of lyme syndrome.
Thats bull !
Lyme is a disease caused by spirochetes.
Main Entry: syn�drome Pronunciation: sin-drm also -drm Function: noun : a group of signs and symptoms that occur together and characterize a particular abnormality.
Syndromes are usually named those things when they cant find the real cause. Lyme cause is known even if it isnt well known.
Its a system wide attack every organ nerve bone cell is fodder for the spirochetes.
people do not understand what has gone on with american borreliosis.
the steere types DO NOT consider ANYTHING other than skin and joint disease to be "lyme disease".
eugene shapiro says he has never seen a case of neuroborreliosis.
almost ALL of the CDC serum samples are from joint patients.
however, it has been demonstrated by EUROPEAN scientists that what we have in north america is no more arthritogenic than garinii or azfelii.
and yes, you can have a syndrome and know the cause. epilepsy is a syndrome; it can be caused by a tumor or scar tissue or genetics etc.;
"lyme" is a syndrome according to how the CDC defines it. it's a skin rash followed by arthritis. Ross River is the same thing and there are other causes as well.
there is virtually NO RESEARCH being done on neuroborreliosis in humans, bone borreliosis, or any other manifestation of the disease in humans.
the klempner study selected for LYME SYNDROME patients and intentionally avoided neuro patients by ruling out depressives. They selected for an outlier group that has a genetic predisposition to autoimmune disease. When chronic borreliosis is studied in europe, they study late stage neuroborreliosis patients.
Borrelia are TISSUE SPECIFIC in their protein expression and thus disease pathology.
Posts: 523 | From Stillwater,OK,USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Aligondo Bruce: [QUOTE]Originally posted by treepatrol: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Aligondo Bruce: [qb] Hello, thank you for your question.
it's a skin rash followed by arthritis.
Are you serious? You think Lyme disease is a skin rash followed by arthritis???
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