posted
I have been thinking about the massive spread of Lyme disease. Here are 3 things I think have contributed to it.
1. Forest fire suppression. First Nations used to regularly burn to keep pests under control 2. Global warming 3. Fragmentation of wilderness and the subsequent imbalance of predator prey relationships resulting in the explosion of deer and rodent populations.
posted
my guess? Nos. 1 & 3 = real big contributors, esp. No. 3.
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david1097
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Try the wholesale discontinuation of heavy duty long life insecticides like DDT. This stuff is finally worn off. Now we are going back to square 1 but have a much larger population that is at risk than in the 40's.
Some idiots around here will not even treat their standing water with larvacide or allow their kids to put on insect repelant. In fact the CDC came here to see why there was such a large cluster of west nile cases. As it turns out the yuppie invasion aroound here has resulted in no spraying if any sort and no use of personal insect repellant due to the "risk to the environment and possible side effects of DEET".
I am rather PO'ed about this since they put everyone at risk, including their kids. With out this type of insect control we are not much better than developing countries in terms of controlling insect vectored disease. The only thing saving us from an even worse situation is the fact that an adjacent state does wholesale spraying at the state level.
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I just have to say Amen David, this is very true here in the Pacific NW (just above California) where spraying is openly defied and hasn't been attempted for many years.
Joe! Good Job--at least 6 lymies on the road to help....and word is spreading.
luvs2ride
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posted
I disagree with the pesticide spray theory.
I grew up with horses. We sprayed, sprayed, sprayed, sprayed, sprayed, sprayed, daily. There were more flies at my friends houses than at our barn. We fogged the barn, sprayed the horses and ourselves.
I grew up with annual doses of abx from multiple, persistent respiratory illnesses. I wonder how much all that inhaled toxin contributed to my sickness.
One thing I know for sure, none of those riduculous toxic sprays protected me from Lyme disease and none of the TONS of abx I was fed my entire life protected me from Lyme disease.
What POPPYCOCK!!!!!!
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
The trouble with toxic sprays is that the target insects become resistant. This is way evolution works. The spray, in fact, accelerates the development of resistance. So, while it might work for a while, ultimately it will fail, because the genetically resistance individuals will cause the population to rebound, and now you have the bugs resistant while the spray is harming all sorts of other innocent critters, including humans.
I have been worried about this with permethrin. It is being used to spray large areas, as well as any number of other applications, for insects of various kinds, not just ticks. In fact, there was already a report of resistance in the biological literature.
Poisons will never be the only and best answer to pest problems.
That is why the solutions that are more narrowly applied have the best long term future, like the deer feeding stations and the mouse de-ticking stuff that works when the mice collect treated material for their nests. Neither of these requires big spray applications. And it works just on the ticks, not everything else.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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For decades, in July and August, there were thousands of baby toads in my yard. I sometimes didn't go into the yard because I was afraid of stepping on them.
Fast forward to West Nile. The town sprayed, nightly.
Now there are no baby toads in my yard, ever.
I don't think the spraying reduced the ticks and I still see a lot of mosquitoes.
Worthless tests & labs, a dangerous vaccine, insurance companies refuse to pay, undertreatment the norm, all about money. MO. Posts: 281 | From CT | Registered: Oct 2005
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david1097
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posted
re: What POPPYCOCK!!!!!!
How much did the spraying reduce the indidence of disease in the horses.....Probably a lot. Why was it spryed in the first place? It is cheaper and more effective than treating the horses for a wide sprectrum of ailments.(sort of sounds like lyme disease does'nt it). This is something that is easily forgotten.
Also with horses and barns, there are cats and mice and maybe cows. If these as well as the horses (or people for that matter) go into areas that are not protected by previous spraying you will still see the insect problem, but you can avoid those areas if you want.
On the other hand is is pretty hard to avoid your front or back yard, city parks or any "domestic use area". In some studies (finland for example) they are finding infected ticks in city parks. They couls easily spray to cut down on the population of these BUT THEY DON'T. Why... because some set of idiots will protest. They they shold close the parks as a helath hazard.
I know a number of people who where around horses in their youth (and in their adult carrier). Many have have recurrent episodes of "unknown" disease, many of which persist well into later life. I was/am one of these. Based On this I strongly believe that the barn environemt is a definate risk factor for insect bourne disease in humans. Even today, there are some areas that it is manditory that horses sold out of certain areas of the country be tested for Lyme before being transported to their new home. The same thing goes for babesia in dogs.... again a tick bourne disease. Don't all the diseases in cats too....
re: resistance to the spray. This is definately true. It is for that reason it is imporant to use as high a dose ad as high a potentcy chemincal as possible to eliminate as much of the population of insects as possible, thereby not leaving some marginally resistant bugs alive. Only the fully resistant bugs will survive if any but you will have knocked down the population significnatly. You then switch to a different chemical or bacteria or even virus. Simply state get rid of the vector, get rid of the disease.
Oh yes..... and what about H5Nx bird flu. Millions and millions of birds (wild and captive) are being culled (nice way to say KILLED ON A SCALE BOURDERING GENOCIDE) because they have POSSIBLY been exposed to the bird flu (not even a human disease!!!!) yet you don't hear anyone protesting this fact.
Compare that with spraying to eliminate known and debilitating threats to humans from mosquitos and ticks... MANY SAY "We can't do that...". Well I really hope that these people or there family are someday in my situation, all from a insect bite... they deserve it.
Oh yes, one last thing..... Second hand smoke... There are smoking bans all over the place to PREVENT PEOPLE FROM DOING THINGS THAT MAKE THEM FEEL GOOD BUT HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO HARM OTHERS.(ie smoking in public)
How is this different from those that FEEL GOOD about saving the environment by stopping the use of insecticide that is used to control insects that ARE a clear and ever present danger and therefore have the proven potential to HARM OTHERS. Yet it is these same bunch of hypocrits that support both.
AND NO I DO NOT SMOKE, NEVER HAVE TRIED A CIRGAREETE AND NEVER WILL.
[ 12. March 2006, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: david1097 ]
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JimBoB
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posted
THE ONLY WAY to get rid of diseases is to get rid of the REAL cause. HUMANS.
It is NOT the animals fault we have all these diseases. It is not the BUGS fault we have ALL these diseases. It IS humans fault. Period.
Left to nature, everything has its balance. It was designed THAT WAY. But NO, mankind in general THINK THEY have all the answers to this and to that. THEN WE the peons have to suffer the consequences.
SAD but TRUE.
We wouldn't even HAVE global warming IF it wasn't for mankind.
We wouldn't HAVE Mutated germs IF it wasn't for mankind.
We wouldn't HAVE all this DOMINO EFFECT IF it wasn't for MANKIND.
THOSE in CHARGE can't think past their noses that they have stuck so HIGH UP in the air.
THEY ONLY look at the CURRENT situation, NOT what the things THEY change will do.
Mankind has proven beyond ANY doubt at all, that THEY cannot rule themselves and are just bringing this wonderful earth to RUIN.
Get rid of THEM and you have gotten RID OF the PROBLEM.
david1097
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posted
Not to perpetuate this post but....
There were no humans around when the dinosaurs went kaput... not much balance there.
The meteorite theory is losing credability these days... maybe it was the dino-flu that killed them.
I have a much different view on the whole thing.
Man cannot do to the planet what the planet has not already done to its self. What ever is done by man may not be natural or desired but no mater what it likely happend before due to purely "natural" causes (this includes a nuclear power disaster, believe it or not).
So while we may hasten our own demise, the planet will still be there after and some living thing will take our place. Maybe it will be just the bugs.
[ 12. March 2006, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: david1097 ]
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
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luvs2ride
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David
I am one of the idiots who does not want to inhale toxic sprays. As Lou said, the bugs and bacteria mutate and adapt quicker than we can kill them. We, however, do not and we are greatly harmed by the poison in our air, water, food, environment.
Horses have definitely been affected by the toxins in the sprays as well as the worming medicines and vaccinations. This is why many vets are moving to alternative care.
I had a horse whose immune system was so compromised, each time I had him vaccinated, he caught the very thing we were vaccinating against. I finally said "forget it. I'll just wait for him to get sick and then I will spend the money to treat. I don't need to spend money to get him sick just so I can then spend more money to treat. Well, guess what. That horse has not been vaccinated for 6 years now and he has yet to get sick with anything. His outward condition is the best it has ever been and I have saved alot of money. He does get rabies shots as they are mandatory.
I use their own manure to fertilize the fields and have great pastures. I feed a natural product called Bug Check which keeps flies and mosquitos to a minimum and is healthy for my horses. I also feed this to my dogs and they have no fleas or ticks.
I don't worm the horses unless they are wormy. I determine this by having their poop tested twice a year at $10 a pop and so far (4 yrs) they have not had worms.
We abuse the use of chemicals and we are paying the price for it.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
It's very true that bugs will adapt faster than the toxins we use to try to kill them. Also when we are using pesticides we are indiscriminately applying a toxin that affects other lifeforms including us, with little understanding of the long-term effects.
I believe most of the spread of Lyme disease can be attributed to our radical modification of the natural environment.
I wish there were a silver bullet to stop lyme disease but pesticides won't do the trick in the long run and would have a devastating effect on nature.
trails
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posted
The book titled BIOGRAPHY OF A GERM by Arlo Karlen explains the "explosion" of Lyme disease in a geographic sense. Geography is the study of humans' relationship with the earth. His theory is based on how our relationship with the earth has changed over time and especially since the 1940's.
We have MUCH more suburbia, many more transitional areas: woods to shrubs to lawn areas than EVER before in the USA. This occurred after the clearcutting of old growth forests that may have harbored some balancing predator-like animals that kept the Bb more "in check." (like the western fence lizard)
There is more, I dont have the book here, this is from memory. I agree with his theory--it makes a lot of sense when you look at where Lyme has become endemic and how it has spread.
Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Spraying with chemicals is extremely short-sighted and is NOT a solution.
For many reasons, it is a recipe for yet more disease and weaker immune systems with which to fight them.
It would only further aggravate the imbalance we observe in nature at this time.
Humankind's relentless and drastic modification of the environment is the number ONE reason we are confronting beasties like borrelia-bearing ticks.
They are our come-uppance for careless, unchecked expansion as a species.
The more we humans spread as a species, the fewer other "hosts" there are to bear the infectious disease of the world.
An ecosystem needs diversity to be stable. Ecosystems that have been robbed of their diversity are unstable and are prone to being toppled by virulent species.
Our lawns of grass are prone to dandelion invasion because it is unstable, being a patch of earth populated by a single plant species.
Strength is in diversity, not monoculture of any type, whether it be a population of a single grass species or a single animal (ie human) species.
You cant correct mono-culture with poisons.
Posts: 58 | From Planet Earth | Registered: Nov 2005
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kelmo
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posted
I've pondered this very question. We live in Arizona where we don't have the massive tick problem, yet my daughter has Bartonella. It could've come from a mosquito, as some people let their pools go green. West Nile virus is prevelant in my area, so I'm sure Lyme is undiagnosed (it took me 12 doctors and my own research to find someone who would think outside the box).
My daughter came down sick the same time she contracted mycoplasma pneumonia. At the same time she had a traumatic experience in school. I believe that at that time her immune system went whacko.
It could be the Bartonella was spread by our indoor cat. Animals can be asymptomatic. I've been scratched and bit by our cat numerous times. And, although slow to heal, I don't have active infections. The doc says I may have the Bartonella bacteria, but my immune system is fighting it.
So...I don't know. If tick-bourne, then all your theories have validity. If not, then there's something else going on. Maybe it's because with all our medical care and vaccinations, we have changed our body chemistry. We have to die of something! So, things are going to mutate to make sure we die someday.
That doesn't mean I'm not fighting this bug til it cries "uncle"!
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TerryK
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Mankind has adopted an approach that I do not believe will ever work for controlling microbes.
Microbes have been around a lot longer than humans and they are very adaptave as we've seen with Bb and co-infections and many other microbes. Brute force has not worked to date and likely never will.
Taking a more balanced approach, hopefully one that will not create super microbes or injure innocent by-standers (including humans) seems like a wise idea.
I feel that we should be developing more methods along these lines.
I realize that many people will think that these methods are a bunch of baloney but I can tell you from my own experience that they work for me and for others that have used them.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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GiGi
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posted
I posted this on the Lyme Alzheimer thread that is circulating here. It fits here also.
David said: "Does this means that some of the plasmids from the bacteria can be inducted into the DNA of the host cell??? At least the posibility exists....)"
From Gitte Jensen's research (read her publications) we know that to be so. We know that RBC's do not have DNA - they do not have a nucleus with DNA in it. She simply looked for DNA in the Red Blood Cells; when she finds it, we know that it is foreign. It is alien. She found that over a lifetime the DNA in our RBC's is in a linear progression, more and more toward the end of life.
Another study she published (which should have been on the cover of Time Magazine!!!): that there is a direct relationship between the subjective feeling of wellness and the amount of foreign DNA found in our Red Blood Cells. It simply shows that illness is nothing but an accumulation of foreign bugs in us.
She also found that the DNA in white cells and other body cells, which do have a nucleus and have DNA in them, is twice as long when we die as it was when we were born. That means, as Dr. K. puts it, that at the end of our life we are only half "us" and half "them". Dr. K. calls it a huge discovery. ``Lyme Disease is just one of the many bugs that contribute to that.''
I have become convinced that with some luck and with the help of a doctor that understands all this, we can clean up our body to the extent that residing in our body is just not attractive for the bugs any longer. Right now, most of us are so toxic; the microbes in their quest for survival that is threatened by our pesticide mentality and our could-care-less attitude at our environment have become so aggressive, and more so every year, that they are getting the upper hand. Dr. K. calls them highly intelligent in a less evolved body.
Lyme microbes are not the last ones that threaten us, I suspect, it is probably going to be even tougher as we move along in our SUV's and our petroleum clothing, plastic water bottles and Teflon pans eating our take-outs.
Too bad many do not live long enough to comprehend the damage of our attitude and the attitude of the politicians we elect to office.
The only way out of this dilemma is - detox your body with every means at your disposal, just as we did and are still doing every day by avoidance.
Did you ever have a course of antibiotics in your life? That should clarify it for everyone, because all the experiments done on the spirochete/cyst form confirm: you give one patient one abx pill, and immediately you have the cysts appearing everywhere in the body. Obviously it's not the solution. We also know that the spirochete cyst can withstand fire up to 1000 degrees. Survivors. DEET?? Whom are we kidding.
Scientists recently found the Bartonella spirochetes in Finland in a mass grave of Napoleon's army. They found them in the teeth. Researchers recently cultured Lyme spirochetes from swobs taken at public telephones and door handles in Germany!
The partial pressure of oxygen on the earth at sea level has decreased from 30% to 19% today. The oxygen producing algae in the oceans are dying.
Dr. K.'s motto: Detox and bring your body back up to snuff, so that the cysts will no longer want to hatch. The proof comes with every patient that got well -- "change the inner environment, the milieu, so that the cyst does not feel like hatching."
That's our only chance.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
i dont buy the toxin bit,sorry,just my opinion.Im sure it may help.Why i dont feel it is so effective is that i have very many friends,and all the people were i live,live normal lives.Lyme disease is lyme disease,different people have different strains that some are not even known to man.So all my friends i know that drink like fish,smoke like chimneys,and are 70 years old and are in better shape than myself must be on the right detox program.I was in great shape,before coming down with lyme.My father-in law,is 67,he retired from the military,where he recived free dental,,he has most of his teeth,mercury fillings,root canals,etc.He jumps in his pool at 6am every morning,it is a shame i am 39 and wish i was in his shape.Everywhere in the United States is perfect for tick growth,and reproduction.At the pace the lyme movement has been going,most of us will be dead from this illness,before anything is done too help some of us.As i said most have tryed everything,probably even stand on there head,lol,to rid there disease.
Posts: 510 | From NEVERLAND.USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
WELL, it appears MOST on THIS thread agree it is we humans that ARE the culprits destroying the earth by our "artificial" intelligence.
Except, David, I guess.
David: WHAT makes you THINK that there were NO humans on this earth the SAME time as the dinosaurs? From all the history I have read, that is NOT the case at all.
It wasn't the bugs that killed the dinasaurs, it was the FLOOD, according to history. I am not talking according to "theory" now, you mind.
Keep up the good work, GiGi. SOME of what he says may be theory also, but most sure makes sense. However, we will NEVER get ALL mankind to change his ways to how we were disigned to live, at least NOT in THIS system. When this system is destroyed, then, I think it will happen.
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