Topic: If you are killing bugs, you have to clean up after
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
If you do any cleanse or any meds that kill, you have to do colonics. There is no way around it. Or you will eventually end up with a sick gallbladder, a sick kidney, and a sick liver. We only get one of these.
I posted about it here yesterday. I cannot emphasize the seriousness of this enough. If you don't do that, you are damaging yourself more and more.
Please refer to the earlier thread about outright assertions related to treatment. You are not a medical professional and should not be making these broad brush claims. Even the medical professionals do not do this.
Please be careful. There are many new and/or fogged people here who may not be in a position to evaluate your claims.
As for colonics, my understanding is that they are controversial and potentially dangerous.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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shazdancer
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Member # 1436
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Thanks, Suzanne.
Hi Gigi, I might put it a different way. When we kill off Lyme bacteria, they release toxins, which can make us feel sicker (Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction). These toxins may overwhelm an already sick and sluggish body, especially if it is already very weak from the disease.
The body needs to excrete these toxins to feel better. We excrete through breathing, sweating, urinating, and defecating. Aerobic exercise is out for many of us, only making us more ill, though some of us have done well with anaerobic stretching and walking to keep our lymphatic and circulation systems working better.
Sweating (through keeping warmly dressed, saunas, and hot baths) is recommended by many of us, though if you are very sick, I would have someone within shouting distance in case the bath makes you too weak to get out.
Drinking plenty of water helps keep the kidneys working efficiently. Some of us add detoxing teas or lemon.
Some of us use colonics or enemas to clean the colon. Although I have never used this approach, some people have found relief with it.
Herbs and supplements may interact with your medical treatment plan, and some are contraindicated for Lyme patients, so be sure to discuss your detox plans with your Lyme-literate healthcare provider.
Regards, Shaz
Posts: 1558 | From the Berkshires | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
My husband just set me up with the steam/sauna tent with oxygen and ozone.
We bought a massage table and the tent sits on top of the table. Then he places the ozone/oxygen tube inside the tent -- my head lays outside of the tent on the massage table headrest.
I believe he bought the ozone and oxygen generator at a different website.
I sit in it every evening for 30 minutes. This is my first week and I can already tell a difference in pain and I know the ozone/oxygen has to be working on the toxins.
5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
hi Karatelady Hi! I have to say that is an ingenious set up that you have devised. I wish I had room in my house for something like that. Thanks for the link you provided take care dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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TerryK
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Member # 8552
posted
For what it's worth, quite a few years ago I went through a course of colonics at the Naturopathic School in my city.
Initially they made me VERY ill, probably because I was so toxic. Everytime I had one, I'd be unable to function for several days. I felt like I had the worst case of the flu.
After I stopped them, I enjoyed feeling better than I had in quite a long time for many months. I bought a colonic board for home use and used it for awhile.
I've used CRA (Contact Reflex Analysis) a form of muscle testing for years and I've tested for quite a long time that it is not safe for me to do colonics.
I don't know why it isn't safe and I really would like to be able to do them but after many years of using muscle testing, I trust it enough to not do the colonics.
Anyway, that's my experience with colonics. If you decide to do them I would highly recommend that you get them while being treated by someone who knows what they are doing because they are not benign and can make one very sick.
It's important to replenish the friendly bacteria while on them as well because colonics disturb the bacteria in the colon. Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
I've done colonics. 10 times. Cleaning the colon out would make me feel like a living human being. Amazing what is accumilating in our sick bodies.
Doesn't matter what supps, herbs, meds you're doing, if the back end is not working properly then you are wasting time and money.
It's all about doing everything you can do to make sure your colon, liver, gall bladder, kidneys, spleen, etc are working as well as possible.
I thought my colon was pretty good, because I was a once a day bowel movement person. Wrong!
I did a major detox with a 7 day cleanse and on day 3 my body (during a colonic) released a long black rope of 45 yrs of crud. This black crud just keep coming out of me.
We might not be medical people, but we are real people that have found ways to clean up our very toxic body, so we have half a chance of winning this battle.
My liver, gall bladder, spleen and kidneys no longer feel like a punching bag. I now know what a healthy bowel movement is suppose to look like. And as silly as they may sound, I am so happy when I have those because I know it means a GREAT day ahead.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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but I have to say her wealth of information has helped a great many people a great deal more than a colonic could EVER harm.
If GiGi is essentially 'muzzled' by an arbitrary standard expectation -- I fear the board as a whole would loose far too much --- far too much value.
Even if a colonic is not the best idea for everyone, within the body of her post on the referenced thread, and literally hundreds of other threads.. there is incredible value in a patient taking time to think about the whole body in this. Certainly, then to take careful individualized care. Most of us are adults here and take good care. I doubt anyone would read this -- shut down the computer and make a bee-line to the colonic clinic.
Many of our LLMD's cannot provide certain info that could be of value, and even in a brain fog folks can at least start to think about caring for themselves holistically, should they choose.
I have to say IMO - there is potentially much more harm in NOT thinking about organ care -- and taking heavy killing agents herbal or abx.. much more potential harm than a colonic or a member/patient emphasizing overall dilligence. Besides, you have to see a professional to get one.
Many of us here have allot to offer eachother as patients. We should be careful about making new 'rules' that are taken too far and hence throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Lets not forget the monster illness state some of us are facing. I take all the help I can get! -- who would be the judge about what can and cannot be said? This board is a fountain of diverse info that can be of great value. I think most members are aware this is a support group, not an MD office.
-- furthermore -- everyone has a choice to take info they need and leave what they don't. I for one, have garnered allot for myself on this board from patients like GiGi.
Mo
Pam, you said:
"And as silly as they may sound, I am so happy when I have those because I know it means a GREAT day ahead."
My dog runs around the perimeter of the house ten times at full speed after he goes -- I would like to feel that way myself!
[ 13. March 2006, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: Mo ]
-------------------- life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage -- anais nin Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I'm not sure if this should have been a new post or not;
Concerning colonics etc., I had a colonoscopy 3 yrs. ago and I'm sure anyone who's been there knows what I mean when I say you get cleaned out before the procedure.
Does it clean out the entire intestine or just the colon? Would this be considered cleansing?
I certainally felt wiped out after the cleanse and felt that it was pretty harsh on my healthy(at the time) system, not something I would do too often.
I've been really pleased with the Red Root I've just started using. It's the first time in a year that I haven't had swollen lymph nodes under my arms. I also do detox teas.
Posts: 175 | From ma. | Registered: Aug 2005
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Mo, well said!
I for one have benefited immensely from GiGi's posts and learn with each one I read. Many times, I scan the board just looking for new posts from her as I know they contain some pearls.
As you noted, they may or may not make sense for each individual person, but that is why each of us has to create our own path. I for one love the posts....
and if I had to say, GiGi probably knows more about this than many LLMDs and certainly more than most conventional MDs....
They say the proof is in the pudding....well, GiGi has proven that her approach has worked. When I met this 70-something year old lady earlier this year, I was amazed. I can only say that you better get a good night's rest the night before so that you can keep up with her... Best
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
anyone who tells you what you need to do to get better could be wrong..... EVEN an MD. for example, we went to 20-odd MDs and heard all kinds of crap about depression and hypochondira and brain tumors and allergies until we finally got diagnosed with lyme & co-infections... and that was initially by a nurse at one of these docs offices, who took us aside and risked her job to contradict her boss, and told us to see an LLMD. i'm sure this is a story many of you have also experienced in some version.
so of course this was just GiGi's opinion, and of course she could be wrong -- as anyone can. it's your job as a reader of posts and the owner of your own body to make your own decisions. getting informed is a huge part of that process.... and in my opinion there aren't many people on this board who can help with that more than GiGi. but it's great that there's lots of diverstiy of information available here; the same thing will not work for everyone.
i think when you see a post you are not sure is correct, go ahead: disagree, add information, say what you think, etc. that can be really helpul. but you gotta respect other folks' information as well, and GiGi was just telling people what she thinks needs to be done, from her very extensive experience. my thanks to her, and everyone who posts.
oops, gotta run, gonna be late for my..... colonic! flossie
Posts: 773 | From yahoo.com | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
I do not object to a post about colonics. I object to a post in which someone is telling everyone they have to do something.
Either state that something is your experience, post references, and/or present the risks as well as the potential benefits.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
"I do not object to a post about colonics. I object to a post in which someone is telling everyone they have to do something."
So noted...... certainly your perogative to object.
In my opinion, several kicks in the pants to pay attention to detoxing helped me tremendously, so I have no problem with GiGi's style, especially in the context of what she is emphatic about (paying attention to toxins).. occasionally some urgency in healthful advice is useful...especially when one is overwhelmed and ill. I also give the board members credit to evaluate and consider posts themselves.
and in the context of who GiGi is .. (a selfless member with allot of experience who is well and here only to help, and help she does! -- her origional post on this was to someone in distress...she is emphatic, I suspect, because she cares)
But I have an objection of my own to this:
"Either state that something is your experience, post references, and/or present the risks as well as the potential benefits."
Shouldn't that say 'in my opinion' or 'I would prefer it if...'
Respectfully, what justification or position do you have to direct a member in how to post here?
GiGi has been around a loooong time - I just don't think she needs this kind of direction from another member.
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Yes, of course she/anyone can say "in my opinion". The point is that, as per the discussion last week (or whenever it was) there are many people who are new and/or fogged who may take advice offered with such authority and run with it without further investigation.
As such, I think it is irresponsible and potentially dangerous to make such emphatic statements.
If Gigi and others do not agree with me, fine, then my posts serve as a reminder to others that the advice given should not be taken at face value, regardless of the level of a posting patient's expertise.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
I just posted this on another thread - addressing jaundice, etc.
Thank you for your friendly commentary. I often wonder how Dr. K. has held up for so many years doing this kind of thing. The man deserves a monument for just dodging the bullets, saving lives and surviving with a medical license intact.
Sick people, toxic people, we all know can be horrible people to deal with. Some on this board are just that. I was one of those myself where Dr. K. silently crossed himself when I walked in. Today we laugh and he keeps fighting his fight and I keep fighting mine.
Cave, nasties do hurt, I just hope that you also eventually will get well.
Here is my story of the "black tar" -- don't get upset at it - that's reality - to the poster wondering what to do about jaundice:
First of all, I would call my doctor right away. There are many ways he/she can help. It is serious, that much I know.
Taking a chance that I will get hit again by some of the disagreeables, some of those that just like to disagree, no matter what, I will tell of a quick experience I had just a couple of days ago:
I accompanied a person who could not manage things herself, could not walk or navigate her steps, to the place where she was to receive a colonic by a Certified Colonic Therapist.
The patient not only could not walk, etc., she also looked yellow - a bit more and it would be the color of a banana. Her doctor told her it was high time that she get a series of colonics. She had been doing numerous long-term treatments with abx to combat Lyme, herbals, and several parasite cleanses with medicines that cross the blood-brain barrier (where often the parasites are!)
I watched the colonic because I was there to help. Having had numerous ones myself during my early days of Rocephin, etc., I had a vague idea of what was to happen.
That colonic was not directed at cleaning out the colon, old stool; - that had long been functioning well for her for a long time and she was therefore reluctant to get the colonic. She had three colonics just a couple of weeks before that delivered almost nothing, but clear with a little candida. Doctor said - there's got to be more; get another one.
All I can tell you, on this, the 4th, there came an uninterruped flow of black sludge that lasted for about 45 minutes. In their jargon - this is called a liver dump, several liver dumps with short pauses in between. They also refer to it as bile toxin, also containing pulverized parasites.
I think if we stood on our head, ran ourselves rugged, did teas and pills, and all that is recommended short of a colonic, there is just no way in the world to get this toxic mass out of our organs in an hour's time.
There is nothing that takes the place of a professional colonic. Some of the greatest MD's/LLMD's who have learned a little bit more since medical school are recommending them to their patients.
My doctor certainly did. One of the first things when I would call and complain about not feeling well and after making certain that everything else was on course would be the recommendation of a couple or three of colonics. I did just that - very reluctantly early on. But I soon learned that reabsorption of toxins and a dysfunctional gallbladder and liver would never get me well.
I want to add here that when the lady was through and done, she got out and walked out of the place without any assistance whatsoever. Forget the wheelchair. She walked.
She knows she will need several more before all accumulation is gone. She said she felt great. I know she will feel even better the next time.
Maybe someone here wants to be brave and take a poll and see how many people are minus their gallbladders, how many go jo-jo-ing with their liver enzymes, and how many just feel sick and nauseous on and off. Turning yellow is just one sign of bile toxin. If you have no strength, are weak like a kitten, can barely make it from one couch to the other---- start thinking about colonics.
I mentioned several other remedies on my other posts on this subject, but they will never take the place of a colonic, a professional colonic, with an implant of good bacteria following the colonic.
Really, Cave, wonderful that your "cured lymies" don't need it. Believe me, the 40% that do not get well with antibiotics only, will benefit and it will get them closer to a cure. We are all different, and your organs may function better than others or mine did. But none of us are wonder-children that have organs made of steel that will continue to function forever no matter how much we abuse them with substances that were never meant to be in our body.
You and I have never seen eye to eye. You have your beliefs. I will stick to mine because they worked to my benefit; they got me well.
Just some reemedies are - that will never take the place of a colonic, but help:
Livit 1 and Livit 2 by Ayush Ayurvedics Dandelion Liverlife Heel hepa compositum along with support Heel products - any good doctor should know KMT 23 & 24
There are more that maybe others can add here
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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i hope you never get brought down by the criticism you receive on this board.
your advice is priceless and so helpful.
whenever i read one your posts i become hopeful that i can beat this stuff and become well again.
thank you for that gift...it is indeed priceless.
my np recommended colonics to me last week. i'll follow-up on it this week.
i just feel so crummy it's hard for me to believe that anything can help...but after reading your posts it makes sense how it could help.
i'm one of those who believed that since i have daily bm's...i must be clearing everything out...guess not since i still feel like sh_t.
gigi, my warmest regards and appreciation go out to you...sincerely!!!!!
Lisa
Posts: 92 | From berkeley, ca, usa | Registered: Jan 2005
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shazdancer
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1436
posted
Hi Gigi,
No, I certainly don't ever want you to stop posting. I think you bring a wealth of knowledge. Perhaps I will need it someday. Perhaps my son will. I just don't think that either of us needs it right now.
My only objection to your post was the "you have to" about it. I feel strongly that (unless you cannot take them) antibiotics should be the first line of treatment for Lyme disease. And I speak as one who hates to take ANYTHING.
But I absolutely agree with you that detoxing of some sort can help with symptom relief. Your last post about having a very ill person get a colonic done professionally and followed with probiotics sounded like a better idea than (what was in my mind) a pretty healthy new patient rushing home and doing the Colon Cleanse without telling his doctor.
I've been sicker than some, not as sick as others. And all my organs are just fine, so far!
Regards, Shaz
Posts: 1558 | From the Berkshires | Registered: Jul 2001
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
I have intended to get colonics many times but I have not found a place in NYC that I trust. The first place I went to, first of all, they don't use disposable instruments. That means that, no matter how they swear about autoclaving and sterilizing, I am depending on the integrity of a staff member I don't know and may never meet to give a truly clean instrument that doesn't pass on germs.
As I sat there, I saw one of those lab people running around in a torn coat. The staff was mostly minority and did not speak good English and their whole manner did not give me a sense of professionalism, meticulousness etc.
Then the head of the center came out and invited me into her office but it was not a private office, her book keeper was in there working and yet she wanted to take a history that I consider private, and I just said, tear up my deposit, and walked out.
The next place I went to, downtown, did use disposables. I went on a Saturday with a friend. IT was in an office building and I had to buzz repeatedly to get in, and then the elevator stuck! I was scared. But then it started working again. I got off on the 9th floor and was ushered into the colonic room. I asked the woman to explain what she was going to do but we only had an hour and she did not want to explain the whole thing or we would waste her precious time. I went to the bathroom, and the bathroom door stuck and I couldn't force it open and they had to pull it to open it and let me out.
At that point, I said, no thanx, and left.
I heard of another colonic therapist recommended by a nutritionist but when I told her that I wanted to follow a program based on a naturopath in Atlanta that some friends had done (start with colonic, then small intestine cleanse, then liver flushes, in that order) I think I put her off with my honesty, as she promised to call me back and never did. I guess she didn't like the idea I was following another practitioner and she would not be my sole source of wisdom. SHe might indeed be good but...I'll never know.
Of course this is NYC where everything is crazy, but this reminds me of dentists. If I get a colonic I want someone who is very clean, very meticulous, knows how to massage, is very calm, uses disposables, and will explain the procedure to me ahead of time and not have a crazy ego.
I haven't found one yet and it is very disappointing. There is one more center, near my doctor's office, where I spoke to them and they do use disposables and are very nice.
I bought a colema board 2 years ago and never used it. I just can't bring myself to use it so obviously I need to get colonics.
I do agree those are probably liver dumps (the black bile), not stool that was stored in teh colon. There may be also stuff dumping from teh small intestine for all we know.
As I am somewhat finally on the road to recovery from the tooth extraction/fracture of jaw...I finally feel I can get back to what I was planning months ago, which is indeed to do a cleansing program. Its obvious to me its my liver/gallbladder that needs cleansing, but you have to start with colonics.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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I'm curious if the cleanse you were considering reccomends an oxygen based oral cleanse for the small intestine? (Like Homozon or Oxy-Powder, both are forms of magnesium.)
Some practitioners feel this effectively gets the small intestine cleansed. Or....did you hear of another treatment?
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I had a hydro colonic done about a year ago. I felt AMAZING after it. However, i felt like i did a 1000 sit ups. In other words, i had a lot of pain. Im not sure if it is because i have endometriosis or not. They replaced the good bacteria when it was over, which i feel is very important.
I would love to do another one, or even a series. Im just worried because i had so much discomfort. I did go see someone who was suppose to be very good.
posted
GiGi's posts have brought me to certain things I would have never known exsisted had she not posted about them.... A couple I am currently using are helping me.
I hope she does not stop posting either...I think out of all the posts here I have benefitted from her posts the most .....
I have a hereditary collagen disease that disrupts my electrolite balance and is very dangerous for me... So most likely colonics are not something safe for myself.
But I think that the concept is right on.....
Posts: 437 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
GiGi's posts have brought me to certain things I would have never known exsisted had she not posted about them.... A couple I am currently using are helping me.
I hope she does not stop posting either...I think out of all the posts here I have benefitted from her posts the most .....
I have a hereditary collagen disease that disrupts my electrolite balance and is very dangerous for me... So most likely actual colonics are not something safe for myself.
But I think that the concept is right on.....
Posts: 437 | Registered: Sep 2004
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This is a timely post cuz I feel like I a walking toxic waste dump and since starting tetra going potty has been a major problem.
I was just searching for someone in Ct. who does this and only found someone over an hour away and I dont think I could drive that far, have treatments and get home. Done have anyone to drive me.
Any ideas where to look for a practioners list and then what to look for to decide if they are any good or not.
DIY colonics?? I found a lot of places that sell do it yourself stuff for home colonics. Anyone have any thought about this route?? What would I llok for to buy and then any tips for the process???
For the record. I think GIGI is a wonderful resource and am so glad she continues to post here.
Posts: 561 | From connecticut | Registered: May 2004
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Thanx Mo. The intestinal cleanse was proprietary but I think homozon etc would probably be good. To do the small intestine cleanse I might have to go to Atlanta and I'm not so keen on that at the moment. (A whole trip for one treatment)?
But the order made sense, start at the bottom and cleanse slowly upward. Don't dump liver stuff into a toxic colon.
Re: do it yourself, I think this can work if properly trained but you have to have gumption and discipline of a certain kind to use home colemas. I just never could bring myself to do it so I realize I need to pay for a real colonic.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
So..... the small intestine cleanse is an in-clinic treatment?
Hmmmm .. I haven't heard of that but it sounds interesting, I know the small intestine is difficult to cleanse effectively.
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
Mo, thanks but I don't run around in circles like your dog. What I do is life. You know energy, house cleaning, errands. I have umph, get up and go. Chronic fatigue is gone.
Colonics should cause very little cramping during the procedure if they are using water at body temp. Severe cramping is water too cold and being instructed to hold it too long. It's like an ugly enemia then.
There is a good percentage of lyme patients that are chronic and there seems to be no amount of abx that can make this group better.
When this group of people read about some of these alternative suggestions they are given hope that they do not have to live their lives like this. Many people will actually have a "light bulb moment".
Hope. So read all sides and then make a decision with your gut and go for it. Gigi posted the other day her long list of treatments she used. Look at that list and ask yourself if you are doing some of this stuff (besides the abx)? What's your next step?
That list was all about detoxing and restoring lost necessities for a healthy body. Out with the bad and in with the new.
Gigi is so knowledgable (and blessed) by being treated by Dr K. She is just trying to make sure the message about cleaning out our toxic bodies will help those who are wanting to look outside the box.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Most alternative clinics, naturopath clinics, have certified colon therapists on their premises or they know where the send their patients. Usually they have experience with them and know who does it well.
I have not seen such equipment as Oxygenbabe mentioned. I have a feeling that if you walk into those places with doubt written already all over you, and an overly critical attitude, things are bound to fail and toilet doors will get stuck!!!!!
Yes, most will allow an hour and if they have patients coming, they need to stay on schedule, unless you want to pay extra to get a half hour explanation. Inform yourself before you go there about the equipment used and is the therapist certified?
These therapists also have to put up with the slow patient, the MS patient, the ALS patient that takes a half hour to get undressed, etc. Remember, these people work for a living like everybody else.
I was amused at the post a few days ago what people expect to find or would like to find when they enter their doctor's office. Who is going to pay for all this????? On the other hand, some cry about how expensive all this is. There has never been a free lunch as long as I have lived on this earth. If you want to have someone available every minute of the day to answer the phone calls from sick Lymies, they would have to hire extra people just for that. Who is going to pay for that. I remember making a few frantic phone calls myself -
Save on something else. I think you will get much quicker with colonics as you would without. I have no comment about the different techniques used, whether the small intestine should be involved or not. That doesn't interest me. They only get with their techniques as far as my body lets them go.
All I am interested in is seeing what comes out; learn to relax; signal when the pressure is not comfortable, and relax. If you have never had a colonic, it will feel a bit strange the first time. But it should not cause any pain.
It pays to expect the good and I have found that most the time when my attitude is positive, things will work just fine; and vice versa, definitely.
I have only ever used the hydro system, where the "tools" used are opened in front of you sealed in a package like a sterile bandaid. All you see is water flowing in the tank and the matter leaving your body, all behind glass, and in tubes, totally sealed, flowing directly into the sewer system. You can follow every step of the way and see what you had been carrying probably for a long, long time. If it weren't so human, it would be disgusting.
The colema boards and the do it yourself stuff just does not work as well. Spend the money and thank God there are some people that do not mind doing that kind of work.
I always am grateful, especially when they when I was really still very ill. They were able to help me through it while I was in total distress, depressed, brain fogged, sick everywhere and filled with pain! and cyring.
If you happened into a negative situation, move on and away from there.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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quote:Originally posted by GiGi: If you do any cleanse or any meds that kill, you have to do colonics. There is no way around it. Or you will eventually end up with a sick gallbladder, a sick kidney, and a sick liver. We only get one of these.
I posted about it here yesterday. I cannot emphasize the seriousness of this enough. If you don't do that, you are damaging yourself more and more.
It is just wrong to make such a blanket statement.
And it is just not true...IMO...
The human body is perfectly capable of cleaning up the die-off and toxins from many infections.
It really depends on the general state of your body.
But of course IN SOME INSTANCES, BUT NOT ALL, people may have to resort to colonics.
And yes, some Lymies may need colonics more so than others.
But it ain't no if-you-don't-do-colonics-you're-gonna-loose-a-kidney thingy, right folks? Where's the no-holds-barred data backing this up?
Even though I have learned a lot from Gigi, it has surpriced me over and over again how someone like Gigi can make a blanket statement like the above given exactly how much she knows.
It's just a wrong statement, even though sometimes it is true...or is it? But for sure it is not ALWAYS true.
And I continualy fear for those who have not yet garnered enough experience wrt lyme treatments and wrt how to use this message board that they will be overwhelmed by the authority of Gigi's posts and gobble up every word she has to say.
To those I can only say one word..."hesitate".
Basically wait a few days (it won't hurt to wait a few days) and see what others have to say.
Michael
-------------------- I'm not an MD. The above is IMO and in my experience as well as from health related books.
I've had symptoms consistent with neurological Lyme disease since 1986. Was diagnosed with Lyme in 2004. Am feeling better now than ever before. Posts: 702 | From NY | Registered: Jul 2004
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I do not believe our bodies are equipped to deal with the toxins and die off from chronic multiple infections without any assistance..
and when you add 'killing agents' as GiGi states .. even MORE trouble for the body as far as these organs are concerned. How can they possibly process such a toxic overload over time?
Healers and old MD's (pre- 1950's) .. medicine men, shamen, herbalists.. you name it.. all include forms of rather intensive detox with any killing agent or herb when the illnes is chronic and infectious. (that even without the use of abx, sleep meds and other meds)
So, maybe - or maybe not colonics perse.. but I don't believe the body can handle these agents and infection die off very well on it's own.
Seems to me .. One could feel sicker - allot longer - and not know what it's from. --many then assume it's 'just' the infection.
I know I am one who used killing agents without much more than the standard detox reccommendations (milk thistle, detox tea, detox baths, actigall, regular use - I was 'good about it' got my scans, all clear...)
and yet I did indeed end up with a sick liver, sick kidneys, and sick gall bladder (and lymph system too)
I did not do colonics initially once I was in that state, but I did a very intensive cleansing focus on each of these organs and the colon that took allot of effort and dicipline. (must be well done, carefully - best with a Doc skilled in it to oversee you)
Colonics may have helped me better at some point in the journey. Don't know. I am thinking about that now. I figure I'd get some answers as to the state of things now --
I mean..you wouldn't run your car without changing the oil, right?
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
No, I did not enter with a critical attitude...I don't trust a place where the elevator isn't working, the toilet door is so screwed up it sticks and the patient gets stuck in there, and the therapist doesn't want to spend 5 minutes with me.
I think you get a vibe off a place. You know if they are meticulous, clean, thoughtful, careful. It is very important.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
cmichaelo, there's no way a sick lyme body can eliminate the toxins in that body without some serious help. This is not just about one illness, it about several at one time.
That's the thing with this illness....it is so overwhelming that many of our systems shut down or perform poorly due to the tremendous amount of toxins.
The point is the colon is the best place to start with cleaning. It doesn't matter what abx, supps or vitamins you take if your body can't absorb these because of stomach, intestines and organs being overloaded with toxic matter, these aides are not going to help you heal.
When all these organs are full of crud, the crud continually is reabsorbed by the body. This is called self-poisoning.
There are other ways to clean the colon. But a good doc doing some colonic treatments is a quicker fix. Once you have seen what comes out of a infected toxic colon....you know how important this step truly is.
I've seen it first hand and it will make you a colon cleaning advocate like Gigi.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
You said it well, Cave. But saying it well once, should be enough. You don't have to repeat your constant warnings on everyone of my posts. It and you get to be a huge pain in the neck. Nobody on this board is too stupid to decide for themselves.
Take care.
[ 27. March 2006, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Hey GIGI,Thanks for your OPINION on colonics.I will THINK about what you have said and practice my Own Personal JUGDMENT...now that Ive been given permission to practice it by others on this forum! OxyBabe..I think overall service is a reflextion of quality thinking.Well said MO. Alan
-------------------- Charter member of the ~ Delux Toasting Club ~ Our Moto: "Take No Prisoners" Posts: 95 | From San Diego | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Just my opinion . . . Even without being sick, I think colonics are important to keep our insides cleaned out. If we ate, drank, and breathed only pure substances 100% of the time . . . then maybe an ocassional colonic wouldn't be necessary. But our food chain, air and water is beyond that even when we are very careful. In addition, colonics were used as far back as the days of Ancient Egypt . . . this is certainly not a new idea. I've had a few in my life . . . and I also clean myself out with enemas at least twice a month. I don't think this idea is radical and dangerous. I am surprised, however, that some of you have experienced pain afterwards. My experiences have not been painful.
Just wanted to add my 2 cents. I know the thought of this type of cleanse can wrinkle the nose on many of us because let's face it most of us aren't used to talking about and messing around with poo. So I am hoping that the differences of opinion on this thread don't push someone already uncomfortable with the idea of a colonic into the "not me" camp. Personally, I'd bring the idea up with your LLMD and take it from there. And I wouldn't wait to turn yellow to consider one.
If anyone wants the name of the person I've gone to in Naugatuck CT just send me a pm. She's an RN, professional, compassionate, and meticulous. She has a cozy, clean colonic room set up in her home with a private bath. She doesn't rush you . . . she's happy to talk.
I wish you all good health, Judy
Posts: 35 | From Litchfield County | Registered: Mar 2006
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BostonLyme2005
Unregistered
posted
Hi,
Everyone here has many physical problems we are dealing with, no doubt.
I for one read threads on this site everyday. Some I listen to, others I say, MMMMMMMMM???
Now, having stated that, we all have something to offer one another and it is up to each and every person to decide for themselves what they want or need to do with our info.
I do know for a fact that we need to be slow in choosing a method of recovery...
Slow in the sense that we need to learn more about something before we jump right in....
Not everything will work for everybody!
Just simply read and learn, ask questions, read more, learn more, more ?'s....
posted
I went and had my first colonic and it was a very easy experience and I liked the prctioner very much.
She uses all disposable equipment which I wanted. The thought of cleaning & sterilizing long tubes that have carried poop doesnt do it for me.
Someone here pmed me the name of a practioned not too far for me to drive and said their experience was good with them.
I cant say it made me feel any different but its benign and since I always feel like im full of toxic sh!! this seemed like a no brainer.
Had no problems after either. Will go again but not too soon cuz of the drive and the cost. Wont be able to do it till after the middle of next month at the soonest.
Posts: 561 | From connecticut | Registered: May 2004
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posted
I just had my 3rd colonic yesterday. Finally, the black sluge has started to flow out. My skin has started to get that healthy look again. I truely wished I had started these 6 months ago.
Posts: 582 | From milwaukee wi | Registered: May 2005
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Interesting about the black sludge. I am doing my third on Tuesday. My colon therapist says that she rarely if ever sees the black sludge, but I still believe that these are potentially a useful part of detox with all the things that most of us have with chronic Lyme. I am glad that GiGi brought this up again as it made me get off my duff and do it....
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Boomerang
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7979
THIS is the first time I read this thread. That being said; I say GO GIRL.
I can NOT have a colonic, simply because I do not have a colon.
It had been gone for about five years before I got Lyme. Or about 12 years ago.
Even without Lyme, most people here in America cannot get their systems to work "properly" since they do NOT eat PROPER.
IF you are growing ALL your own food, AND doing it organically, AND NEVER eat from fast food places and restaurants, you MIGHT be able to get by without things like Colonics, etc..
But WHO does?
I NEVER ate properly, most of my life, though back in the early days, living with my parents, it was better than my adult life.
You don't want to have to have your colon removed, IF you can help it at all. Sure my colon pain is gone, but there are plenty of other problems once it is gone.
Learn to respect your body and HOW it was created and HOW it SHOULD be used. AND IF you don't want to take the time to do that, then just suffer. You will deserve every minute of it. I know I do.
posted
2 more cents about colonics. I will always put my $$$ bet on something that might HARMLESSLY HELP me.
They might not help you but as long as you pick a practioner who uses disposable equipment and all the proper sanitary procedures they cant hurt anything but your pocketbook.
I never hesitate to do something that might help, as long as I can afford it, as long as it is benign.
Posts: 561 | From connecticut | Registered: May 2004
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posted
I had my first colonic this week. It was neither comfortable or pleasant, as I wasn't relaxing into it AND I had a lot of stuff in there binding things up. It did get a little more comfortable near the end as we worked things out. During the whole thing I thought "I can't do this again, I must be crazy", as I was cramping quite a bit.
BUT...... (no pun intended), I felt GREAT that day and the next. I noticed a big difference in increased energy, less fatigue, no food cravings, feeling lighter, and cheerier thoughts. So I've decided to go for another couple of sessions. Like Gigi says, it usually takes more than one session to get years of old stuff out. I sort of thought of the process as like that of going through labor: some intense physical discomfort, followed by a big reward at the end.
I'm currently off abx and am using the KMT to suppress the critters and help move the heavy metals out. NOw that the heavy metals are being addressed, the candida is coming up big time. The colonic also seemed to help that.
That's my $0.02.
Posts: 50 | Registered: Jun 2005
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