posted
my llmd,is all for me staying on the buhner core protocol,which i recently started.i am wondering how many folks here ,who frequent this site,are doing this protocol.and are you doing it in conjunction with abx or in conjunction with other herbs,homeopathy and supplements?and how are you feeling?
Posts: 32 | From northern ca. | Registered: Mar 2005
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I feel confident that Buhner's protocol has helped me in a number of ways. Especially my vision and headaches and energy level are significantly improved.
Michael
-------------------- I'm not an MD. The above is IMO and in my experience as well as from health related books.
I've had symptoms consistent with neurological Lyme disease since 1986. Was diagnosed with Lyme in 2004. Am feeling better now than ever before. Posts: 702 | From NY | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
hi uma - i did buhner's protocol along with plaquenil and biaxin for six months - when i started to have some bruising i stopped everything and started diflucan.....haven't found any magic bullets yet as am still pretty much homebound..... good luck, deb
Posts: 122 | From richmond, ca, usa | Registered: Feb 2004
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I have been on this protocol for three months. Man, did I feel better esp neuro symptoms for about two weeks. Then I herxed, badly.
I have had a yeast infection for several months, temp, worsening of symptoms. But I am going to stick it out b/c it is the only thing I have until I see a Dr. next week. I hope he can treat me w/ IV as I would like to stay on both.
I did notice it has helped keep my urine the regular color and control the night sweats.
Lakota Queen
-------------------- Mitakuye Oysain (we are all related) Posts: 34 | From OH | Registered: Nov 2005
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
I'm just starting the protocol and so far only have been able to buy the Cat's Claw and Sarsparilla.
I began a low dose abx protocol for RA on Feb 23 and along with a very restrictive diet I have been feeling much better. With the diet, I have lost all my swelling and all over bloat. I don't know about pounds lost because I don't own scales, but all my pants are becoming so much too big I am seriously going to have to go shopping.
I only started the herbs 3 days ago so can't hardly see how they could get the blame, but 24 hrs into them I began to herx (I guess I'm herxing. My joint pain has increased 100% and my hands feel like a car ran over them. Very stiff and sore)
Is this a good thing? Everyone always thinks so, but I'm so afraid of permanent joint damage.
The Healing Lyme book talks like these herbs will help reduce herxing. sigh.......
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Thanks, Uma, for taking this poll. I have been curious also.
I started Buhner's protocol gradually, in January. I am now taking andrographis, resveratrol, samento, eleutheuro, sasparilla, and artimisinin. I know he prefers Cat's Claw to Samento, but my LLMD advised me to switch. I'm not sure if that was the right thing to do, have been considering switching back.
I probably have Lyme, babesia, and bartonella.
I do feel better on the Buhner protocol, but it is too early to tell. In February, my doc also changed my thyroid med (from armour thyroid to T3), and that backfired, and I had a Lyme relapse (or a herx, I don't know). But until the relapse, I was definitely feeling better.
So anyway, I decided to try the herbal protocol after 1-1/2 years of multiple pharmaceuticals, including IV rocephin, which gave me candida and GI problems that the orals didn't give me.
I did improve gradually over the 1-1/2 years, but felt it was time to try something new, clear my system out, and try to detox. Both the LLMD's I go to agreed.
I am also taking MedCaps, NAC, freeze-dried garlic, chlorella, and cilantro, probiotics, coconut oil, oil of oregano, and milk thistle.
LLMD's told me that I need to give the Buhner protocol 4 months.
I've also been vigilant about taking baths for detoxing, and I think that helps.
P
Posts: 449 | From Vermont | Registered: Nov 2004
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
any updates? How's everyone doing?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Well, I never got going on it. Drs have taken me in other directions. I have the book and am doing very well, so now I read it with interest in prevention.
I have babesia but am not symptomatic. Dr does plan to put me on Mepron sometime in the future. I'm going to talk to her about Artemisia instead.
Sorry I have no results to report on Buhner protocol.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
I was on the Buhner herbs for several months--twice. I had to quit them because I passed out and had to be hospitalized--twice.
If you want to work with them, you should subscribe to the buhner herbs list.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
My wife and I started our herbal treatment in March '04, before Buhner's book was published.
Our choices were similar, right down to the preference for the RainTree Cat's Claw.
We were well within 1 1/2 years of treatment-- history of Lyme disease with pronounced neuro- logical symptoms untreated for 1 1/2 years and far worse for us the, the beginning of Morgellon symptoms.
Still feeling great over 2 years later.
Blue Skies........John
Posts: 134 | From North Carolina | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Well I am definitely better but not 100% better, after doing the Buhner protocol for 9 months, taking a break to try the Salt/C protocol, then trying Buhner again for several months. Then I just got sick of making the capsules and having to take so many gd pills a day. I started a modified Cowden protocol yesterday.
So I'm not sure why I'm better, because I did the alternative protocols after taking pharmaceuticals for 1-1/2 years.
I definitely did not have any bad reactions to the Buhner herbs.
Posts: 449 | From Vermont | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I've been on the Buhner herbs for close to a year along with Abx. I'm much better. Also on Abx, lots of hormones including HGH, heparin and yeast meds.
I stopped the Buhner herbs for a month over the summer because I was trying to do Rich Vank's GD-MCB or Glutathone Depletion Methylation Block protocol.
Something was causing me to vomit and I needed to figure out what it was. It was Folapro which is something my Spectracell test showed I need.
When I restarted the Buhner herbs I did get a herx. They must be doing something!
Posts: 192 | From Dwight, IL USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Buhner's herbs are wonderful for active form of borrelia. You need to work on a good combination for you though. Not everyone can accept all herbs.
I'm weaning from lyme treatment now. I was not only on Buhner, but on a few other types of treatment (detox and phsychological therapy following dr. K; homeopathics following ART; co-infections following my own muscle tests). I'm on Buhner's herbs for very long (since end of 2005).
Now the only things I am on is astragalus and cats claw once a day, for maintenance.
I believe I'm lyme and coinfections free again. I'm a very big fan of Japanese knotweed and stephania. The herbs I used less were smilax and astragalus. The most constant herb for me was cats claw. Andrographis helped me a LOT with big loads of infection, but didn't help me much when my load of infection fell (then it was the knotweed/ stephania + cats claw that did the job).
good luck! Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Wow Selma that's really interesting!
I had just read that astragalus is a no-no in late lyme because it can actually cause a worsening of symptoms. I would think that, if you are able to take it without feeling worse, that's a really good sign!
From what I was reading the Japanese Knotweed & Stephania are the ones I'm REALLY anxious to try. They sound like they could be helpful for me too.
I really hope I can handle the capsule making/taking thing. I guess it's better than having another PICC shoved in my arm, if I can avoid it.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Alig, if you read more about astragalus (from users), you'll see quite a few do well on it, even being late stage lyme sufferers.
I wrote to Buhner once talking about that, as not every chornic lyme sufferer is a Th1 dominant as he suggests. Just check here, you'll see many long term sufferers that think they're Th2 dominant (so do their doctors). Quite a few articles on that too.
Buhner still recommends astragalus if you're rebitten even if you are a chronic sufferer (see planet thrive, I think).
I'm a chronic sufferer, had been bitten again in May 2006 (reinfected), but have been using astragalus for my skin fungal infection mostly.
I think both Stephania and knotweed are good plants to start with. If you like these, you can try then to add smilax and cats claw then. Both clear the brain and head (eye region for some) very fast. For me, cats claw has been the most constant herb that I test for since 2005, even though it was a bit hard to get used to it.
Good luck! Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
So far as part of Buhner's protocol, I've only been on Cat's Claw and Andrographis, as well as abx -- Doxy, Rifampin, and Biaxin.
The Andrographis has made me herx and herx and herx though. The abx actually never made me herx as bad as the Andrographis. So I've been off and on the Andrographis because it's too much to continue herxing for such long periods.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
About doing Buhner's core protocol with abx - I'm wondering about drug interactions. I know Buhner says they can be done together, but I've also read that resveratrol and cat's claw can both inhibit CYP3A4 which is affected by so many drugs. Has Buhner addressed this anywhere (CYP enzymes specifically)?
Maybe it's just in vitro, or maybe you'd need massive quantities of the herbs to make a difference. But here's one article that concerned me: http://tinyurl.com/yo8ful "...inactivation of CYP3A4 by resveratrol may cause clinically relevant drug interactions with CYP3A4 substrates."
Getting back to the "poll," I'm not on the protocol but know someone who is. Abx alone got him most but not all the way back, now he's on just the Buhner core herbs and they seem to keep him stable. If he goes off he relapses. (Though he was never severely ill like some here.)
Posts: 621 | From US | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
His herbs helped immensely with symptoms, but I couldn't tolerate heavy duty kootie killing, because I had detox problems.
He recommended a liver herb combo for this problem that I haven't tried yet.
Posts: 233 | From United States | Registered: Oct 2006
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Susan, doing killings without cleansers is bad per se. In my experience, of course.
Never forget organ supportive/cleansing stuff, specially if on stronger herbs like andro and cats claw.
I never forgot my milk thistle (liver), artichoke (pancreas) and bear garlic tincture (kidneys) while killing. Then chlorella (for me it worked wonders to bind toxins), in great amounts. All other cleansing stuff came as 'additional', and believe me, the list is long and varied according to critters I was killing/ to herxes.
Without cleansing, I believe, I was not going to be where I am now. Cleansing is extremely important, in my opinion, even more than killing.
Buhner said that adding chlorella to his protocol is an excellent idea (personal email and in planet thrive he said that too, I think). He's also a good fan of standardized milk thistle (as it's a strong antioxidant for the liver).
While a single herb will have THOUSANDS of chemicals, it has very little to do with single chemicals that are manufactured by man for the simple fact that you're dealing with thousands of components that already interact in between themselves.
These are Buhner's 'thoughts'. His book is still 'poor' on cleansers, in my humble opinion. His protocol (and any other protocol) would work much better with thorough attention to cleansing.
I dont' know how is it for most of you, but once I got my levels of infection lower, adding stronger killers was not the solution for me.
Milder killers IN COMBINATION worked much better longer term when levels of infection got lower. Stronger killers worked only temporarily but what did the rest of the job were milder things like knotweed, stephania, astragalus and low amounts cats claw, combined with LOADS of cleansers, heavy metal cleansing, pshycho cleansing (no joke!) etc.
Just a few thoughts...
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I had to quit because I can't afford all the herbs and supplements. Especially when I got up to the point where you are taking 4 Andrographis, 4 Resveratrol, etc, per day. It was costing me about $100 a month and I wasn't seeing enough improvement to justify it.
also, one of the herbs but I am not yet sure which one (though I suspect the Andro) really messed with my blood sugar levels. I am already hypoglycemic, and something kept making my levels drop to the point where I would almost pass out.
Posts: 220 | From central TX | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Like Texas Chaos, Idon't have the financial resouces to do the protocol properly, so I haven't seen great results.However, I bought some TOA-free Saventaro (root extract) which was more expensive, but when I doubled the dose,I got more relief from the arthritic pain. I also started taking turmeric, which is a known inflammation fighter. Resveratrol and sarsparilla seem to be helping some of the sx, also. I don't know what my current infections are, since my last tests all came up neg. Buhner mentioned that one of the herbs will lower blood pressure drastically, so that could be the problem, rather than blood sugar.
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