posted
Mornings are very tough for me this go-round of abx. I wake up nauseous, with joint pain and just feel malais and sick. Around two in the afternoon I tend to perk up, and I am no longer nauseous or achey.
I am just going with it, and treating the symptoms, and stay in bed until I feel better.
But it is so weird! Why would this happen? I have read topics here about people feeling worse at night. Maybe it's just like a lot of things about Lyme -- individualized.
I post this wondering if anyone has found a reason for this, and anything we can do about it other than treat the symptoms with pain and nausea meds.
It wasn't this way the first two rounds of abx I did, so I am wondering what is different about this round. (Of course, it is a different set of abx -- ceftin and zithromax.)
-------------------- Jeff Posts: 533 | From CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I have wondered about this myself many times. I only have theories, but here they are:
1. Sleeping (provided we are lucky enough to be able to sleep lol) means that the body is stuck in basically one or two positions without moving for several hours. Even the small movements we do during the day help move our lymphatic fluid around and help with circulation.
But the body gets clogged and stiff, etc. when laying still for so long. Maybe this is why the pain, sxs, etc are so bad in the AM? And why it takes awhile for things to loosen up and get circulating.
2. And this is a theory that may be way off base, but I was thinking about babesia and how it is a relative of malaria and malaria cycles every 72 hours, and I was wondering if babesia wasn't diurnal in nature, i.e. causing worst pain in morning, then better in afternoon/pm, lather rinse repeat lol.
I tested negative for babs, despite the fact that I am in so much more pain in the morning, but...there are so many strains of babs and they can only test for a few so who knows.
I know I have more theoiries but of course my lyme brain can't remember them at the moment.
Oh - that's right....the body has 3 stages: where nutrients are taken in, absorbed, and then an excretion phase. I guess this goes back to crazy theory 1, but the excretion phase happens from 12am to 8 am, i.e. while we sleep and I wonder if die-off/toxins, etc. build up as our bodies are in this phase. And maybe this is what causes the awful mornings?
The nutrients in phase I believe is 8 am to 4 pm, and 4 to midnight is absorbtion. I think. And this is only what I've read.
These are all just random musings reallyu, not even theories....
Alison
--------------------
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. --- Edward R. Murrow Posts: 923 | From California | Registered: Aug 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
The longer you are on strong medications and the more neurotoxins you store overnight, the more miserable you feel. I went through this myself. Once you get up and head for the bathroom to eliminate, you should feel better. If you don't, you are storing too much, your organs are overwhelmed and you are reabsorbing the toxins from your colon, back into the blood stream and making you feel even more miserable -
It's best to take a breather and stop the hard meds and supplements, and do a clean-out. You will feel a lot, lot better. It's the massive toxin load that stays in your body and accumulates. The ways out are blocked. Like a stopped up toilet.
I talked about colonics the other day. But it is apparent that most people do not want to hear about it. Colonics saved me from total destruction many times while I was regaining my health. Many call it Herxheimers - I call it total and solid body toxicity.
Give it some thought!
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Gigi. I read your posts on colonics. My doc follows Dr. K's protocol, and so that is what I have been doing. I take chlorella, and use the KMT 23 machine. I just yesterday made an appointment for colonics. The first one is in a couple of weeks. I am hoping this helps me feel better. I appreciate all your information on the posts.
If lack of movement also causes this, it suggests I should be doing some lymphatic exercises or something to get the system going in the morning. But I feel too bad. I woujld have to take pain medicine to do this.
The last two days I have been very emotional too, again, particularly in the morning. And then it passes. Weird.
-------------------- Jeff Posts: 533 | From CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
The strange thing is that this has been happening to me since before I was on meds of any kind. Not only that, but I had and have done some serious detoxing and cleansing. In addition, I had a series of 12 colonics. Liver flushing, intestinal cleansing, kidney cleansing...I'm sure there's more, oh yes, heavy metal detox.
Despite all of this, it is the same thing, day after day. Worse in the morning, better in late afternoon/evening, and occasionally great at night.
Mornings I always have to lie in bed for hours in pain before I can even think about sitting up.
I am so frustrated at this point because I feel like despite being the queen of detox, it hasn't changed much of anything.
Arrrgh. LOL
Alison
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The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. --- Edward R. Murrow Posts: 923 | From California | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
So maybe it's not a cure-all and I should not get my hopes too high.
For me, it has only been this way since taking abx. And it didn't happen when I was taking flagyl and doxy. It has been present since on ceftin.
I am going to take a break for a few days from the abx and see what happens. I wonder if a few days' break will give me any information.
I have read so much on this website, and appreciate that everyone is different and this disease is so different and complex. It is hard to know what to do for oneself.
Jeff
-------------------- Jeff Posts: 533 | From CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
I symphathize with all of you.
Remembering, the worst is the die-off, the dead proteins that collect in the blood, gets thick and dark, try RechtsRegulat. I swear by that stuff.
If you are not taking Chlorella to pick up any heavy metals that used to be part of the cells of the microbes, you are recirculating these too back into the blood stream to settle elsewhere. That does not feel good at all. If you have lived on this planet for a stretch of time, you have these metal toxins in you. No doubt about it.
We all have a biological clock. Organs have different activity levels at certain times of day and night. For instance, gallbladder is very inactive between 11Pm - 1 AM - that's why many gallbladder attacks happen at night.
My advice would be - see to it that you get rid of the black sticky blood so that circulation can improve, toxins transported, etc. It should be bright and thin. Not like dirty dishwater in your sink!
Other than that, they only way out is the way through. How often did I hear that. Keep doing - you will make it. But use every bit of common sense that you can muster. Learn, and the misery will fade onto the sidelines. I learned to navigate the computer - Dr. K. pushed me into it - when I was at my worst. He pushed me to researching everything. It left less time to feel sorry for myself and think of my misery. I started to think of people anywhere around the world that were a lot worse off than I.
Your thoughts determine much of how you feel.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
colonics...coffee enemas...look on curezone.com
they are all your friends...you will feel lots better when you are all cleaned out, i know i did...colonics are nothing to fear,really. after the first on you will ask why you didnt want to do it sooner...
greg
Posts: 740 | From frederick,md,usa | Registered: Jun 2001
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That was me too...for the first four months of herxing I would feel crummy until 2 p.m. and then it was like this magic of feeling a bit better.
For my husband it was exactly the opposite...he would feel better in the morning then crash around 3 p.m.
While I am sure there were less toxins flying around my body as I got better and this left me feeling a bit better in the mornings I do feel there is a cycle to the little critters being active.
When I was my sickest every morning between 4 a.m. and 5 a.m. I would be awoken by excruciating pain on the left side of my lower abdomen. With treatment that immediately stopped.
I hope you start feeling better soon...Take care...
-------------------- �Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right.� - Ezre Taft Benson Posts: 655 | From NC, Exit 88 on the Deer SuperHighway | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Thanks everyone. Here it is, 2:55, and like most days, I am starting to pick up a bit. The joint pain lessens, the nausea goes away, and I have more energy. I still could not work -- so all these things are relative, aren't they? by that I mean that even though I am moreorless out of bed @ 2, there is no way I could handle the physical and mental stress of a job. (I say that, after 30+ years of hard work, and an excellent career -- cut short by Lyme.)
-------------------- Jeff Posts: 533 | From CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
Jeff- i started cedax about a month ago, and i have noticed for about a week my stomach has hurt more so in the morning. I did have what i think was the stomach flu.....so i dont know if this is lingering affects of that or from the cedax.
I can not work either, carrying my laptop into the building would wipe me out completly....and my office makes my NS go crazy. i work in a office similar to a small mall....very busy. too mch for my NS to handle right now.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Jeff, I always feel the worst in the morning too. I have ever since I got sick, way before I had ever taken any medicines. I wake up sometimes in the middle of the night REALLY sick.
When I wake up in the middle of the night I feel like I'm going to die. I hurt really bad all over, but mostly my back and spine. I'll have a sore throat, upset stomach, and my head is so foggy I feel like I'm on the verge of hallucination. My insides feel like they are shaking or vibrating. It's awful!!
What I've wondered is if low blood pressure could cause this. I've gotten up in the morning and taken my blood pressure it and it was 92/51. That was after I've been up, so I don't know how low it drops when I'm actually sleeping.
This doesn't happen every night just once in awhile, but I do usually feel really sick when I first wake up.
-------------------- You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. Posts: 807 | From South Dakota | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
in my house, a.m. is always the worst. my daughter wakes with headache, jt pains, and more tired than if she did not sleep. Some sleep disturbance adds to this. Rheumatologists say joint issue are worse in morning from no movement. migraine can be worse in morn too... so many factors.
i dont understnad all the cleansing issues and some of the Rx/alternative stuf people here sometimes refer too.
i'm not sure how to change mornings. i've had morning headaches and fog for over a week straight now -- thinking of going neurology route before more meds. have never gone that way before.
an answer for anyone would be great! wishing u well
-------------------- mom & co. Posts: 31 | From ny | Registered: Feb 2006
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Nobody has yet mentioned adrenal fatigue. Supression of the H-P-A axis is often a very real part of this illness.
Your cortisol level is supposed to be highest around 8 am, but for many of us it is too low, and you feel really awful, just when you need extra energy to get up and running.
A big clue you may have this problem is loss of body hair. When my adrenals are fried, I do not have to shave my legs or underarms for weeks at a time. You can go to www.drrind.com and take a test to see if you have adrenal and/or thyroid problems.
I have found low doses of Armour Thyroid and DHEA and plenty of vitamin B5 to be very helpful, as well as planning to do more exerting things around 4 PM, when I start to feel human.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
would an endocrinologist during a general workup be able to detect this?
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Well, I tried an experiment. I went off abx for two days. This morning I was only 1/10th as sick as I am when taking the abx. I have significantly less nausea, pain and fatigue and neuro symptoms. I was able to get up, take a shower, and return a rental car for my daughter -- all done by 11 a.m. I have not been out of bed before 2 pm in four weeks.
So my conclusion: For me, it is herxing from the toxins that is making me worse in the morning.
Now that I know this, I wonder if I can go on and off, like take mini breaks, so that I can have a mind/body break from this misery.
It sure does feel good to be able to function this morning without any pain meds. But I am not going to cling to this improvement because it is only temporary and I will get sicker again when I start the abx tomorrow.
Also I am going to try taking the zithromax in the a.m. instead of at night and see if that makes a difference.
-------------------- Jeff Posts: 533 | From CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Hi, I used to rally around 9am,then 10, now my rally is around 4pm. I think Klutzo is right on cortisol problem.
Appears ours goes all over the place.
Been told while back we should have it checked every hr. for couple days to see what is going on with it.
Think mine goes up at night which keeps me up all night sometimes.
Someone asked once do you feel afraid to go to sleep. Many answered yes. I feel so much worse after even long awaited sleep. If I have to travel early for some reason, I stay up all night or would not be able to function, make plane etc.
BTW/ person using colonics please be careful!!!
Our natural flora is already upset with all the problems,meds,treatments.
Colonics disturbs our natural flora we dearly need to keep in as tact as poss. Think that is addressed to Allison.
Kerry
Posts: 746 | From Clearwater/fl/Pinellas | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
An interesting topic, but hubby is just the opposite of you all.
He gets up around 9 a.m. and eats breakfast and then runs an errand or two. Then he exercises -- over the last year he has worked up to being able to walk about 3 miles and stops a couple of times during the walks and does about 100 pushups. He is 50 and has been disabled for 5 years now.
Prior to babesia treatment he had not exercised much at all for 4 years although he was a jogger (about 2 miles daily for many years).
After lunch something as simple as walking up the steps to our apartment (2nd story) or lifting a gallon jug of water can set off tremors/myoclonus or seizure-like episodes. Most episodes occur between 1 and 3 p.m. He usually spends 1 or 2 hours in bed most afternoons and wakes up feeling even worse than when he went to bed.
After supper he is usually in bed by 9 or 10 and often has the 2nd seizure-like spell before bed and then 1 or 2 more times during the night -- usually between 1 and 3 a.m. It is almost like clockwork and the pattern has been very consistent during the entire 5 years with him feeling the best in the mornings.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
When I first had the lyme etc. hit, I was nauseous, too, in addition to having monster fever that peaked in the morning, and came down a bit in the afternoon. I started the doxy, a couple days later. For awhile, nothing happened; ie, this continued. Then, this pattern was intensified-- I believe this was from a "herxheimer reaction". Then I got a lettle better, and the nausea and fever lessened considerably.
I suspect these super- acute symptoms were due to ehrlichia, which I also had along with lyme and babesia. It's hard to say for sure, but I have read that the high morning fever is a trademark of ehrlichia.
The first combi in my "llmd-supervised treatment", Doxy 400mg along with ceftriaxone axefil 500mg/day for a few months probably pretty much got the ehrlichia. You might want to make sure the combi you are on is effective against ehrlichia, as well as lyme. But then again, it might be the lyme, which can cause a huge variety of symptoms. How high is your temp going? If it's going higher than 101, seems likely it's a coinfection. Babesia is another possibility. I hope progress will be apparent for you soon! DaveS
Posts: 4567 | From ithaca, NY, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Hi All, I'm in the same camp as Alison P on this one. I have stopped all abx and have done a really thorough detox (from a master herbalist)for the last month or so with not one jot of difference.
My tiredness was better while I was on the abx, but mornings have always been a problem for me - I always feel as though I've been hit by a truck.
I come round a bit, late morning lunch time and then dip again and have to have a sleep at about 3pm. Evenings are my best time from about 5 onwards. Luckily I'm self employed so I can work around my odd times. I am unemployable in a 'normal 'world!
Posts: 229 | From United Kingdom | Registered: Jul 2005
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Andie333
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7370
posted
This has been an interesting thread to read.
Like Bea's husband, I also feel best in the morning. That's when I try to schedule appointments, get all my errands done, etc.
I've attributed this energy, in part anyway, to using detox foot pads almost every night since last June. I know from taking breaks with them that they help me sleep more soundly.
I also think they help me awaken feeling better.
By evening, I'm usually done. Period, which makes me a real bust when it comes to parties, etc. Friends know to get together with me for lunch or brunch.
I've started staying up a bit later than when I was at my sickest, but I'm not especially social or active during those hours.
Andie
Posts: 2549 | From never never land | Registered: May 2005
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