posted
I know there are different schools of thought out there and that some believe Lyme can be spread from male to female. Any thoughts on the subject?
I never had a rash, bite or anything. I just got sick one day. I usually am aware of anything that might be on my body but I know ticks can be the size of a pin head and they can bite and just fall off. Is it true 50% of people never notice a bulls-eye or some type of rash?
Posts: 204 | Registered: Jan 2005
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Sadly, no way to know. There are many different discussed ways of transmission that are not confirmed - mosquitoes even. Breast milk, in utero, etc. all confirmed. Sexually transmission widely argued....
Even with the argument that Bb is like syphillis in terms of it being a spirochete, most people also have coinfections. So if Bb is transmitted, then does that mean all the coinfections are as well? And if they all are, does that mean almost everything is? Who knows... I am not supporting either side of the debate at present.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I don't know for sure about this; all I can relate is what I suspect from what I've heard and experienced. I've heard about a number of cases where sexual transmission of lyme was extremely likely to have occured. Both ways. But it's definitely not a sure thing, for I know of a particular case where it could have happened but didn't.. But it is something people should be very careful about. I suspect that once either partner is on abx, the incidence of transmission plummets. About coinfections, I have no idea-- but while lyme can live in many different cells and in between cells, I believe the co-infections are just in the erythrocytes, which are less likely to be exchanged. DaveS
Posts: 4567 | From ithaca, NY, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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Think that Ignex using urine to detect Bb, this definitely means that Bbs are present in urine.
However perhaps the Bb number is too low to transmit to the partner; or depending on how strong the immune system of the partner.
To my opinion, the presence of Bb in semen might be impossible, but comtamination from urine might be possible.
So some protective measures should be taken.
Posts: 77 | From USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
I'm not one of those effected, but since I joined here 1.5 yrs. ago, I have read at least 24-30 couples post about them getting it from one another as well as their kids. Hopefully, they will see this thread this weekend when they come on.
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posted
well, impossible or not, my boyfriend tested positive (via PCR) for Bb at Igenex -- in semen.
this was repeated, and positive a second time.
not many people are sending their semen, so the numbers are small, but it's quite possible to have at the very lease enough DNA to get a positive PCR. i think we must therefore assume it's possible to have a live spirochete as well.
after unprotected sex with my actively infected partner, in addition to becoming positive myself, i also had repeated abnormal pap smears, which resolved with antibiotic lyme tx and use of condoms.
regarding co-infections, in my personal experience, since getting sick, i have tested positive for all the same co-infections as my partner has. again, we are sadly lacking studies.... but it is shown that babesia is transmitted sexually in horses via semen... so why not us. according to garth nicolsen, m. fermentans is transmittted via close contact, doesn't even have to be sexual, just prolonged and intimate (i.e. families, etc). i don't remember what the data on bartonella is, but perhaps someone else does.
perhaps we all need to come to our own conclusions about sexual transmission until a real study is done (shame on the cdc), but not coincidentally, we (and most of our docs) believe i was infected via sexual transmission.
by the way, there are a number of threads on sexual transmission which might be interesting to folks thinking about this. just search using the terms 'sexual', 'sex', and 'transmission.'
best, flossie
Posts: 773 | From yahoo.com | Registered: Dec 2002
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
I personally don't think we can "assume" anything, can we?. IF that were done, we would all probably just commit suicide as there would be no hope for anything, and we would probably die from fear anyway.
I am wondering WHAT it will take, if anything, to actually get some tests started?!?!
Until then, we could probably assume, (see there is that word again), that it probably doesn't happen any more than Holes in One at the golf course, or people flying without an airplane or copter of some sort. Otherwise in about 5 years, the whole country will be infected at the rate the ducks are going about curing it or even diagnosing it.
posted
We MUST assume that it does happen. to not do so has some pretty dire consequences. As for my story I gave it to my wife. My LLMD ALWAYS tested both partners and both would invariably come up positive. There is one study which showed horizontal transfer in mice. After that nothing. That in itself should tell you something.
Posts: 731 | From Humble,TX | Registered: Feb 2005
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My husband does have twitching sometimes but not really anything else. He has gotten the Lymerix vaccination at work 3 years in a row now.
Posts: 204 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote: not many people are sending their semen, so the numbers are small, but it's quite possible to have at the very lease enough DNA to get a positive PCR. i think we must therefore assume it's possible to have a live spirochete as well.
If PCR is positive for semen, that almost, if not 100%, means that there are live spirichete in the semen.
quote:I have read at least 24-30 couples post about them getting it from one another as well as their kids.
quote: doesn't even have to be sexual, just prolonged and intimate (i.e. families, etc).
Probably this is too scary, but it might be true.
Remember that skin is the largest organ of our body and the organ that might have the highest Bb infection according studies on primates.
The govement and the CDC should take action now untill it's too late.
One urgent and simple project should do is to test all familly members and analyze the data, then we will have a clear picture whether Bb can be transmitted from human to human.
The cost for this will be much, much less than the consequences of unprotection.
At first, the meadia sgould gather information about horizonal transmition among humans, and warn the public and urge the CDC and goverment to conduct the project mentioned above.
The number of Lyme patients reported each year far exceeds the number of other major infectious diseases (Aids, heptatis)) combined.
If CDC not spend money on this, where it should spend?
Posts: 77 | From USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
just to clarify, when i spoke with garth nicolsen and he said that thing about intimate transfer, he was speaking of M. fermentans, NOT borrelia.
no one i've spoken with seems to think Bb can be transferred that casually i.e. airborne or touching etc.
and jimbob: i said we must assume it's possible -- meaning consider using condoms, worry about fetal infection, address partner's health, etc -- not commit suicide. sheesh.
flossie
and yes, igenex wll run PCR's on semen. (there's a place you can fill in the 'other' blank when specifying sample on the form) but i would call them and ask whether the semen should be frozen or not, etc. we were local, so just brought it in... uh.. fresh, so to speak.
[ 18. March 2006, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: flossie ]
Posts: 773 | From yahoo.com | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Well, I do know that my little granddaughter was born with Lyme, so I have no doubts that it can be passed to the fetus from the Mother. There is NO way she was ever bit by a tick as an infant.
There is also no doubt that she has Lyme and possibly babs. We traveled all the way to CT to see the best and he says she has it. So that is good enough for me.
Since starting treatment her night terrors have gone and her fevers from nowhere are also gone. She doesn't rub her head all the time now, either. Her behavior leaves a bit to be desired, but she is now nearly 4 and "SPOILED" rotten.
We can't get my daughter's husband to get tested, although I think he shows some symptoms, and if I have it, I won't get treated anyway. I just take take the natural stuff to maybe ward it off, just in case.
I for one totally believe that it can be passed sexually, but who am I??
-------------------- ICEY Posts: 468 | From Las Vegas NV | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
A number of top llmds have told me that it is sexually transmitted. There are no published studies, as mentioned, just their experiences.
I have also heard from lymies who think they either gave it to or got it from a partner.
Posts: 925 | From California | Registered: Sep 2004
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
My wife claims she does NOT have Lyme, and she doesn't have any symptoms that I can see.
And we have been together for over 5 years now with no protection.
posted
My LD seems to think it is possible. I am wondering just out of curiosity if someone lives in PA and wants to have a PCR test done on Semen, would it still be viable by the time it gets to Igenex or another laboratory?
I'm not sure what labs do the PCR's near me.
Posts: 204 | Registered: Jan 2005
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
JimBoB,
This is good to know, but was she ever tested for it? Lots of people don't have symptoms and are still positive on the Western Blot. It may be years later that things finally become to much and things go south.
Note: I am not taking a position on whether it is or is not as I don't know....
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
My husband contracted Bb from me within a month of my tick bite. He has few symptoms but is being treated. All of his tests for co-infections came back negative for which I'm thankful. I tested positive for babs, ehrilica - both mono & gran and I'm currently being treated for bart.
I have a friend that worked a few years in a ld docs office and she said altough she has seen several cases of Bb transferred she doesn't recall any cases of co-infections transferred through sexual relations.
Edited to add - just because she didn't run across a case of co-infections transmitted sexually, doesn't mean that that doesn't happen. I didn't test positive for bart and I'm being treated ( I obviously have bart). My husband will also be treated for bart because the few symptoms he does have are very much bart dominant. Just didn't want to mislead by my statement . . .
[ 21. March 2006, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: elle ]
-------------------- When I feel blue . . . . . . its time to take another breath Posts: 296 | From East Coast | Registered: Aug 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Scott:
NO, she has not been tested, and won't. But I have not been tested either, for lack of money.
BUT, I had just about all the symptoms. And BIGTIME on some.
My duck just clinically diagnosed me back in 2000.
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