Topic: more co-infections...IgG vs IgM reliabitity of testing?
trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
I was speaking with my LLMD about co-infections and the tests for them. In his opinion, when the tests are positive they can tell a lot about the infection. (By this he means a negative test does NOT rule out the possiblity of co-infection.)
It is his belief that co-infections are NOT like Bb: when they produce IgG antibodies that are detected, your body IS actually producing long term POST-infection antibodies to the co-infection.
This means that IgG positive tests do NOT indicate current infection with Co-infections.
This is not the same with Lyme as many of us know.
This is also just HIS opinion and he said there are other LLMDs that believe otherwise.
Reason I bring this up: 1- lots of people chatting about co-infections lately.
2- I have plateaued at this horrible place where I have MORE pain, fatigue and new symptoms than I had before treatement and during the first 4 months of treatment....now in my 6th month of treatment.
3- I test IgG pos for HGE, bart, and babs.
This plateau has occurred while on Amoxy/probenecid and Plaquenil. I did seem to have some progress while treating Babs with mepron/zith. (4 bottles total)
But ever since starting this reg--I have had new and worse pain symptoms than I had while NOT in treatment. I am NOT cycling, or herxing in cycles...I am just going from bad to worse and back to bad again.
I discussed the co's yesterday with the LLMD and he will treat babs again and toss in artimisin this time and might treat for the other co's but doesnt think they should be a presenting problem for me, given my IgG levels.
It is his belief that I am CONSTANTLY herxing...I am unable to clear toxins fast enough...we are killing Bb constantly.
This doesnt seem to jive with the "monthly" cycles of Bb or what I have been reading.
Sorry so long.
Any opinions about IgM vs. IgG co's tests and treatment protocols?
thanks everybodies! Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
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timaca
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6911
posted
Trails~
No input on what you are asking BUT I had wanted to address another issue with you, and I haven't gotten around to e-mailing you yet (but I will)...
So...here goes my thought...
I was troubled by one of your posts that mentioned that you feel worse after hot tub soaks.
I and you both know that you have a tick borne disease(s). But, I am also wondering if you don't have some MS stuff going on now too. (I know, perish the thought!) But, I have to mention it because of your feeling worse after hot baths.
In trying to figure out what was wrong with me, MS was looked at. And I knew that people with MS feel worse in the heat. That has never been an issue for me.
I'm sure you've considered the MS issue in the past. Do you think it could be part of your issue now?
Do others here on this forum feel worse after heat exposure? (Maybe you could post this as a new question).
Sorry to jump from co-infections to heat intolerance...but I did want to mention it to you...
Timaca
Posts: 2872 | From above 7,000 ft in a pine forest | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I feel extremely tired and weak after a hot bath, and can't tollerate it well. I don't think many Lymies can tollerate hot baths because there was a thread about this on a different forum - which got loads of replies.
Posts: 263 | From UK | Registered: Mar 2006
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cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
I cant tolerate the heat at all.
not looking forward to the summer.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
thanks blue hope! LLMD thinks I am herxing constantly. I dont understand how that can be though.
Anyone else want to comment on what their LLMD thinks about IgG vs IgM reliability of coinfections tests?
Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
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riversinger
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4851
posted
Hi trails!
I can only comment specifically on two, HME and Bartonella. I tested positive for both of these on IgG only. I was treated based on both the tests, and symptoms that match the infections.
I had very clear, obvious Bartonella herxes, and then a clear improvement, plus a steady decrease in IgG titers. I am now clear on both HME and Bartonella, but my doc is continuing to treat, because he wants to be sure it is gone, since I had some damage to my retinas.
You might look at your test results. You will see that Igenex remarks that positive Bartonella IgG titers are known to cross react with another Bartonella strain, I forget which one. It made some sense to me, as some of my symptoms in the beginning of treatment matched that particular type of Bartonella very well.
With treatment for these two coinfections AND consistent neurotoxin treatment, I am having monthly cycling of my symptoms for the first time ever. Before this, I pretty much felt bad all the time. I think maybe this is the first time that only Lyme is left behind.
Now, your doctor could be right that you are having a lot of die-off, and you might need to do some clearing of that. But it sounds to me like you could have some active coinfections, as well.
Mathias
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5298
posted
I disagree with "IgG antibodies that are detected, your body IS actually producing long term POST-infection antibodies".
My experience is that IgG antibodies are produced due to long term infections, not post infection. My IgG was way higher than my IgM with an active mycoplasma infection. IgM was close to normal.
-------------------- Mathias Posts: 1250 | From New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I think it's harmful for any doctor to consider all indications of IgG to be a sign of a past infection. IgM is the 1st antibody to respond to an infection and then a few weeks later IgG responds. It's not to say that it's not showing up because of a past infection but generally a test cannot specify whether IgG is responding to a current infection or not. It's like saying IgG does no work on antigens, it's just a marker for past infection and that's completely false.
-------------------- The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back. -Abigail van Buren (Pauline Esther Friedman) (1918-2002) Posts: 409 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2005
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