Topic: Still Thinking Outside the Box?? Mixing it up w/ABX
Jellybelly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7142
posted
There has been some discussion lately and in the past about how we use ABX. The general consensus is that ABX MUST be used long term, at full dose, and WITHOUT let up.
As much as WE have had to fight to get out of the mainstream medical box, we have actually jumped right into another box. Thankfully there have been open minded thinkers who were willing to go out on a limb and create a new box that has proved to be a major step in our getting well. My question is though, have we gotten stuck in that box?
There are on the horizon another set of open minded individuals who are climbing out of our new box and challenging it a bit. I hope that no one thinks that this is a bad thing, because we surely don't know everything there is about LYME, and if it had not been for open minded thinkers we would still be in horrible shape. One thing that seems to be often under estimated is just how smart and wiley Lyme is, the latest group of new thinkers is really giving Lyme the credit for being so smart.
There is a growing number out there that believe constant, prolonged use of the same ABX is not such a good idea. There are a number of people out and about who through experience have found what they are saying is true.
A herx is an essential part of getting well, and it is believed by many that if you are not herxing, then the ABX you are on is not the right one. A lot of people will say that I am feeling so much better, and there is a likely reason for that.......you may possibly be sending the critters into their dormant stage where they really don't bother us much, but come back out when the coast is clear. There are numerous other reasons that we might not herx on a certain ABX.......like the Lyme may already be immune to a particular ABX, due to our use of it in the past, maybe totally unrelatdto Lyme.
Over to the left there is a "Shop Amazon" advertisement, which features many excellent books on Lyme. One book that is advertised there is "Lyme disease and Rife Machines" by Brian Rosner. I am not using the Rife method right now, but have found the bood to be extremely valuable in my own treatment.
I'd like to share some of the things stated in this book. The autor DOES believe in the use of ABX under certain conditions and carefully.
The writer describes our slow healing process as peeling the onion. Working through layer after layer, deeper and deeper.
On page 154 this is some of what he has to say aboout ABX use.
#2 Dormant layers of the infection will not activate while on antibiotics, so antibiotics effectively slow the peeling of the onion
This could explain also why some do not herx after awhile, they have reached a dormant layer that is not effected by ABX.
#3 Antibiotics can be used as surprise attacks. Antibiotics can become counterproductive after the infection has become resistant to them, which can occur as soon as a few days after the antibiotic is started or as late as a few weeks after it is started (recognized by the slowing or complete cessation of herx reactions). If an antibiotic is only used for a short period, and discontinued before the infection becomes resistant, it can effectively lower the bacterial load.
It recommends ONLY using the most appropriate ABX annd on page 147 gives a list of ABX in an order of worst, to best. The list of worst is VERY long, the "better choice" list includes, Zith, Biaxin, Minocycline and Doxy.
The best choices are Tinidazole, Flagyl, and Secnidazole. The first and the last having the least side effects, but Flagyl being the smallest molecule which migh allow it to achiever higher tissue concentration.
So by looking at that chart, you can learn a lot. Like what order you would want to take these ABX of course after discussion with your doc. For me, I would never touch the final three until I can tolerate the Mino and the Doxy. It makes sense.
Anyways, it seems to me, that we need to keep our thinking caps on and not rest in the box we have grown comfortable. There is STILL much to learn and someday when Lyme is no longer such a problem and treatment has been established, and we can wipe it out quickly, we can all sit back and smile, knowing that we had a part, all be it a small part in establishing a treatment protocol for the world.
Keep thinking, keep researching and we all need to keep brain storming with each other. Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Right On JellyBelly!!!!!
If we just had some kind of great mechanism to monitor exactly when a layer has been peeled away so we know to move on to the next layer.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Brian Rosner is ANYTHING but an expert on antibiotics.
-------------------- "Life is wasted on the living." Posts: 795 | From nyc | Registered: Sep 2004
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Jellybelly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7142
posted
Luv, there is a mechanism that we can use to monitor how we are doing.....the herx. When I can no longer illicit a herx from Mino, I will move on to another, maybe I will try Doxy again, real slow this time though.
Cave, look forward to your essay.
And Zipzip, you know it was my LLMD who recommended Bryan's book to me, he thinks it is really good. My doc may not be one of the well known specialists, but he has had several articles written on him and his recovery from Lyme, he has had a few things published as well. I agree with my doc, I think Bryan has a great handle on how Lyme affects us and his explanations are really clear. I couldn't really find anything in his understanding of the Lyme organism that was wrong. You may not agree with his use of Rifing, but that is your opinion and you are welcome to it. You are clearly happy in your little box and that is all that matters for you. Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
I agree Jellybelly- Im stuck in yet another box right now. So, im beginning my search for alternative treatments.
I havent been able to do a complete month of abx witout an oportunistic infection popping up. I think my body is trying to tell me something.
After todays letdowns....im going to need to come up with a plan B.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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