posted
Can anyone explain why this happens? My Lyme test is back to normal, but now am showing strong posive for Salmonella (didnt before antibiotics).
My Dr. thinks this is the cause of my hand and foot pain. Also have developed a Kidney infection which can be caused by Salmonella. If its not one thing............. Cindy
-------------------- Cindy Posts: 227 | From VA | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Can I ask how you could have possibly gotten salmonella? My understanding is this is the bacteria you get from raw chicken or eggs, and can make you very ill when ingested. (i.e. food poisoning).
Please explain??!!
Thanks, Jill
Posts: 203 | From Jacksonville, FLorida | Registered: Oct 2005
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
Jill,
You can get salmonella many ways. Not washing hands while cooking chicken, mixing utensils, eating at a restaurant, eating contaminated vegetables.
I have salmonella as well. I never had the the expected reaction, meaning I didn't have a clear food poisoning. But salmonella can cause a reactive arthritis.
Traditional medicine says the arthritis is permanent, and exists after the salmonella is gone. There is also a school of thought that symptoms mean an active infection, like with Lyme.
Cindy - I think part of it is that the immune system just gets activated by the lyme treatment. The other is that the Lyme may hide the salmonella infection.
My salmonella antibodies have gone up and down through treatment. I stopped eating eggs that aren't hard boiled and am very careful that my chicken is well cooked. Just in case I was reinfecting myself.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Jill, I have had food poisoning in the past twice. Not very pleasant. The last time was at least 5 years ago.I wasnt tested for Salmonella at the time, but I assume this was the cause.You might think you have had a stomach flu and really have Salmonella.
Aniek, That makes sense. Do you have the reactive arthritis as well? I cant tell what is Lyme and what is anything else sometimes.
If you have the reactive arthritis, has it gotten better? Joint pain has been a major Lyme symptom that was improving until about 2 months ago.
I know I havent been reinfected because I rarely eat out (Celiac disease) and am a maniac about food sanitation and hand washing. Has your DR. recomended any change in your treatment for the Salmonella? Thanks for your help, Cindy
-------------------- Cindy Posts: 227 | From VA | Registered: Sep 2005
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I am so glad to find your posts here on salmonella.
I started taking Doxy about 5 weeks ago as an Antibiotic Challenge.
The lab work prior to that came out to be all negative/normal except for borderline Ehrilicia titers.
I did see a nurse practitioner about 2 weeks ago, and she ordered another lab work to see what would show up since I had been Herxing.
She called me yesterday to see how I was doing, because I had faxed her about the severe pain and aches in my arrms, shoulders, lower back and right hip as well as legs.
I do have tendonitis of both shoulders, degenetative diseases and a clumping of several nerve roots in the lower back as well as some problems in my neck.
The lab results were: positive for salmonella, but negative again for Lyme or Babesia (sp?)
I had never been tested positive for salmonella before this.
She didn't mention anything about Ehrlichia.
She said all my pain in the back and hip were from the salmonella infection. And I was Herxing.
I don't remember having any food poisoning, although I got "stomach virus" a few times in the past.
I have been very careful when I cook chicken or any meat to avoid any cross-contamination.
I wash my hands frequently.
I disinfect the counter top frequently.
I have no idea how I got salmonella.
My LLMD actually suspected at my first visit that I might have a septic arthritis.
Well, Lyme arthritis is considered a septic (infectious) arthritis too, but I just didn't expect salminella at all.
Just as someone said, it's so hard to know what is causing what symptom. I am very (and more)confused.
I am going to see my doctor next week, and I have so many questions for her!
shizuko
Posts: 110 | From Northern Virginia | Registered: Nov 2005
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
Cindy,
Sorry I never answered your questions. Although I have had joint problems, my arthritic symptoms are mostly soft tissue. I get some swollen joints, but most of my pain comes from muscle and tendon inflammation.
I was doing much better for a while. We lowered abx because I had some gastro issues and then the Lyme came back hard. It's hard to tell what's Lyme and what's salmonella. My doctor knows, but I don't always.
I started Flagyl for the Lyme recently, so I've been in lots of pain since then. But overall, my hand pain and stiffness is way down, my overall swelling is down, and I need less muscle relaxer than I used to.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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What do you take for pain in the muscles and tendons?
As I mentioned earlier, I have salmonella too, which was just found out after I started Doxy.
I can't really tell where my pain comes from.
Some of the pain seem to be from the joints, while some others seem to be in the muscles, soft tissues, ligaments, tendon, whatever.
Some of the pain locations don't necessarily have muscle spasms, at least I don't feel I have the spasm.
But I know my spasm in general has become more like a background noise: it's there, but I don't notice much.
What I feel is deep penetrating pain everywhere, and no medicine has helped with this kind of pain.
shizuko
Posts: 110 | From Northern Virginia | Registered: Nov 2005
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
Shizuko,
I know that deep penetrating pain. Before my diagnosis, my hands hurt so bad I completely lost their use. I was diagnosed with tendinitis and told to stop using a computer (which was when I found a new doctor).
It turned out that the hand pain was caused by muscles in my thoracic outlet (shoulder area). The muscles tighten and put pressure on the nerves causing referred pain.
I worked with a pain specialist and eventually controlled my pain. I think you live in N.Va, right? My pain doc is in Bethesda if you want his info. He won't believe the lyme or salmonella, but he will get your pain under control.
The best thing for the pain was Flexeril. It's a muscle relaxer. It was the first thing that allowed my muscles to relax and allowed me to have permanent improvement.
Once the Flexeril worked, I found help with physical therapy. My therapist (also in southern MD) specializes in myofascial trigger point release. Prior to the Flexeril, my muscles inflamed from therapy. After I got to 20mg of Flexeril, it started relaxing my muscles.
After a few months of therapy and starting strengthening I began to do yoga regularly. It was very hard at first, and I would often be in pain for 2-3 days afterwards. But it really helps for me to stretch and strengthen muscles throughout my body.
I also take vicodin when needed. I used to use Ultracet and that helped. But it causes seizures when taken with Flexeril.
I also started taking birth control pill. Many on this board recommend against it. But once a month I would wake up and I could feel my entire skeleton hurting. It would last for over a week. I couldn't move for 1 or 2 days. The pill eliminated that.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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david1097
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3662
posted
I suspect that it all depends in the type of test that was was done. If it was an indirect ELISA (the most common) then that test checks for antibodies. If you take anitbiotics, it will break apart the bacterium and your body makes antibodies to those pieces. The indirect ELISA picks up your reaction to those pieces.
If they did a culture then you are likely in deep trouble and the antibiotics did not work, I suspect they did not use this test method....
There is also a test called direct ELISA. this test looks for the anitgens, ie the organism that causes the illness, in which case the antibiotics would seem not to be working...Direct elisa is not usually used.
My best guess is that you had a low grade, simmering infection, perhaps sequentered in an encysted area of some sort and you where not producing particulalry large numbers of antibodies. The antibiotic where started, they penetrated the infected area and released the antigenic fragments, your body reposnded and thus the positive result.
Thats my guess (only a guess)
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
David, I think I would go with your guess. I don't know the exact test used, but it was a blood test (not for culture).
I have checked on salmonella on google, and the bacterium in the bloodstream doesn't seem like a good thing.
Aniek, I had started taking Zanaflex about 3 weeks before I started on Doxy, and I thought it helped a lot.
Then, when I started on Doxy, Zanaflex no longer helped.
My muscles were tighter, tension-type headaches came back, and the deep penetrating pain came back with a full force (at least that's how I felt.)
The NP gave me Arthrotec, which messed up my stomach on the day 1.
Now, I am on Robaxin 500 mg 4 times a day plus Zanaflex at night, and I don't think they are helping (well, not yet.) Both are muscle relaxants.
I can't take any narcotics, not even Ultrum or Ultracet because they make me very sick - worsning the muscle spasm, especially in my neck, giving me a severe headache and nausea.
I'd rather have my normal pain.
I am glad Flexeril has been helping you.
shizuko
Posts: 110 | From Northern Virginia | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
This is a little off topic of salmonella but I thought it interesting.
I have been wondering why my son's OCD got so much worse after starting lyme treatment..
And I have been thinking maybe Pandas but he did not have OCD as a child....So then I start thinking that maybe the treatment for lyme is waking up strep in his gut...
Am I off the wall thinking like this?
I had tried Transfer Factor with him prior to knowing of lyme dx and his herpes of the eye infection came back after years of not having an outbreak....3 days after starting the Transfer Factor....Which is in the same line of thought with virus being awaken by treatment...
Thanks for any input Eileen
Posts: 127 | From Rock Tavern, New York | Registered: May 2005
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PANDAS is a condition developed as a child to an untreated strep infection and the main symptoms are OCD....It has something to do with the body fighting itself instead of the strep infection....something like that anyway...my brain isnt working too well tonight...
Now here is how naive I am...I did not know you could have strep in your gut...I thought only your throat...
Does anyone know if there is a test for strep in the gut? Thanks Eileen
Posts: 127 | From Rock Tavern, New York | Registered: May 2005
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