Topic: ANY THOUGHTS OR EXPERIENCES ON BUHNER'S PROTOCOL?
daystar1952
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3255
posted
Hello....I'm just beginning to gather and take some of the herbs on Buhner's protocol. Is anyone here still on it and what do you think of it in general or does anyone have specific experiences with any of the specific herbs?
My Lyme doc had told me to get his other books....The Secret Teachings of Plants...and another one...so I had already heard of him when this Lyme book came out. For some reason tho, I wasn't excited about it right away. Now, I'm excited and hope to get some systemic results. I guess one has to be on the protocol at least a year...according to him...to get good results?
posted
My main advice would be to go slow -- much slower than book suggests. Add one herb at a time. Start with one pill of each and build up as tolerated.
Hubby is taking 6 Cat's Claw, 6 Sarsaparilla, 3 Resveratrol and only 2 Andrographis. Also Red Root tincture -- 60 drops 2 or 3 times daily.
The Andrographis is the one most people have problems with.
Has taken these while on IV Primaxin, oral colloidal silver (Argentyn 23), and now Quinine/Clindamycin.
I really don't think any of the herbs suggested are contraindicated with other treatment protocols unless one has specific health problems -- the book is pretty thorough in explaining who can and who can't take these herbs.
As soon as hubby's back benefits check from social security disability comes in will be stocking up on all herbs and nutritional supplements and trying to increase doses to therapeutic levels.
If I remember correctly I had hubby wait an entire week to try andrographis again after he had such a strong herx from the 1st pill.
In my opinion, the herbs work on Lyme, but I don't think they do much for Babesia or Bartonella.
The Resveratrol allows hubby to take 5HTP at night without activating the quinolinic acid pathway -- at higher doses (6 capsules) he actually made it through the night from time to time without having his normal 1 or 2 nightly seizure-like episodes.
After being awakened multiple times just about every night for the last 3 years this seemed almost too good to be true.
Will be retesting neurotransmitter levels again soon as the effect seems to have worn off, although it may simply be the result of decreasing the dose of Resveratrol due to budget constraints. Very curious to see what serotonin levels are now.
Good luck and be sure to let us know how this works for you.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
I am on MOST of Buhner's Protocol and Expanded Protocols.
I am taking about 80 pills a day. I am encapsulating my own as i cannot afford to buy them all already done. I did in the beginning but cost was killing me.
I agree to start out slow as does his book. I started out with one a day of each of regular protocol and week later added in a couple more herbs. Then on 2nd week went to 2 a day, then third week to 3 a day, then on 4th week to 6 a day, etc., etc..
Andrographis is THE most important one to take for Lyme. Artemisinin is the one for Babesia. Along with Red Root tincture. I make my own of that too, much cheaper than buying one ounce bottles.
Devil's Claw is also very important. I took that from the beginning. I started taking herbs on Novemver 25, 2005.
They help tremendously. IF you are having BAD herxes or symptoms, it COULD be from abx IF you are taking them. I quit the abx as they were really tough on me. Feel much better, most of the time on just herbs.
I started out slower than Stephen's book, because I had had such stomach problems before I even started any kind of medication for several weeks.
Otherwise I would have started exactly like Stephen recommends. HE IS the Master Herbalist.
Every person is different though.
Be SURE to take the Red Root tincture, Milk Thistle AND Sarsaparilla, and you probably won't have any or many bad herxes.
daystar1952
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3255
posted
thanks so much for all the good advice and experiences. I have been taking the knotweed powder, cat's claw tincture, ginseng, sarsparilla tincture for only about a week. I have been on Juice Plus for half a year which has lowered my homocysteine levels and has given me more stamina. I just ordered the hawthorn berry powder and andrographis powder because it seems like it must be cheaper to make your own capsules. My husband just ordered a cheap capsule filling machine. I'll see how that works.
My problem is going to be keeping track of all the pills...especially if it's 4 times a day. Maybe there is some sort of organizing container out there that will help me.
80 pills.....holy cow Jim Bob. How's your stomach? What do you think of consuming that many capsules? Do you use gelatin or vegetarian?
Posts: 1176 | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Jeff Posts: 533 | From CA | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
daystar1952
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3255
posted
so far I have gotten some of them at 1st Chinese Herbs. The author also recommends Raintree Nutrition. You really have to read the book to know which herbs do what, what form and how much to take
Posts: 1176 | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
TheCrimeOfLyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4019
posted
I just started the protocol yesterday. ( part of it) I had intended to start it earlier, but came into a money fix so commonly ran into with this DD, so I had to wait.
Anyways, I am a STRONG herxer so I JUST started out with sarsaparilla on top of my bicillin shot. All I can say is holy cow.
Its doing something
-------------------- You want your life back? Take it. Posts: 3169 | From Greensburg, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
Do you practice this technique with stuff like andrographis and cat's claw?
How does it feel??? Posts: 71 | From germany | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
I'm on them too for months now (since November). But I never reached (and probably will never reach) the largest amounts Buhner recommends. Too strong for me!
I do think andrographis works wonders as a 'killer'(but I'm still on 3 a day only), sarsaparilla rain-tree(6-8 pills), cats claw rain-tree (3 pills, I went on 8 a day in the past, now decreased to 3 and feel good), stopped resveratrol, and I'm on 3 astragalus.
This last regime was 'tailored' for my actual needs with ART. On top, there are garlic pills, some chlorella, some enzymes, royal gelly, coconut oil and many minerals.
No herxes at all in the last weeks! I have babesia and bartonella, had good initial experiences with artemisinin (strong dosage), then it became hell (extreme breathless attacks).
Now ART says 'no' to artemisinin for the moment. I'm fighting babesia only with the KMT for the moment, and waiting for the PC-Noni (drops) to come.
Feeling good, except for fatigue that is more important. Cats claw (with and without TOAS) always made my liver painfull (or gall bladder), so decreasing the dosage was good for me.
Adrographis is bitter, you could mix it with honey if you don't want to put it in pills. I find it's much more practical to put everything in vegetable capsules so that I can go out and take the stuff anywhere.
Buhner recommends to adapt the dosage to your weight (I'm less than 100 pounds, I remember I calculated everything to about 2/3rds of what he recommended - I just decided to take the stuff 3 x instead of 4 x day). I think he wrote to me that his protocol was supposed to be for a person of 150 pounds, if I remember well.
I also learned with the naturopath to 'hit' with your fingers in certain acupressure points AFTER taking the pills so that these will be better absorbed by all organs. If anyone is interested in which points, send me a PM with your email address as I don't know how to send attachements here.
And in the end, to do a 2 min massage on the middle finger (top of it) of both hands, it's a reflex point of the head, to help carry the herbs to the brain. The naturopath swears the finger 'hitting' and middle-finger massage is important.
Sorry for my awful English! Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Selma, that is called "tapping", or MFT (mental field therapy), that is taught to all patients by Dr. K. I have "advertised" it and posted it here several times and have taught it to some people over the phone. But for most people it is tooooo faaaaaar out. It is one of the very basics for every Dr. K. patient. It's one of the first things a patient learns to do for him/herself. It is not EFT. Roger Callahan is the brainchild. Dr. K. refined it to his liking.
I still do it, especially on a day when I stumble over things or hit my head - on that really clumsy day. It works like a charm. It is an instant (about 2 minute) acupuncture treatment that costs nothing but a little waltz rythm.
I am so happy Sabine taught you. Just don't forget and brush it off........ it works. Many meds we take never get to where they need to go, because the road is blocked, and so we never get the benefit. Tapping is a great tool that, for once, costs nothing - not even more than a couple of minutes. It takes a while to appreciate all these crazy ideas, but, believe me, they work.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
Ann-OH
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2020
posted
I am a skeptic, but I know someone who gets benefit from tapping.
posted
I was using the gelatin capsules, at first as they are cheaper, but the more I thought of it, I didn't want to put a lot of bovine stuff into me. So went to the veggie caps. I now buy them from WonderLabs as they are the cheapest.
I use either the 0 or 00 sizes. The machine works better on the 0 size for some reason.
The gelatin caps do seem to work better in the machines though.
I have never got up to Buhner's recommendation of 4 pills, 4 times a day. IF using the 0 size, I am on 4 pills, 3 times a day of SOME of the herbs. IF I have made up the 00 size I make that 3 pills, 3 times a day. I only take them with my meals.
NO Stomach problems at all since I quit the abx and am taking the C-salts from nutri.com that Buhner recommends strongly. It cleared up all of my stomach problems. A 1000%.
Here is what I take of what:
All POWDERS in 0 size capsules, unless I state different.
Andrographis: 4 pills, 3 times a day. Cat's Claw, WHOLE, 4 pills, 3 times a day. Devil's Claw, 4 pills, 2 times a day. Resveratrol, 4 pills, 3 times a day. Sarsaparilla, 4 pills, 3 times a day. Stephania Root Powd., 4 pills, 3 times a day. Stinging Nettle, 1 pill, 3 times a day. Garlic Powder, 1 pill, 3 times a day. Milk Thistle, 1 pill, 3 times a day. Olive Leaf powder, 1 pill, 3 times a day. Oregano Leaf powder, 1 pill, 3 times a day. Viramax, 1 pill, 3 times a day. (Not for Lyme).
I guess that is probably more than 80 pills a day, but I was generalizing before.
Every two weeks, I take Artemisia annua, 2 600mg pills a day. On two weeks then off two weeks.
I also take Red Root tincture, 30 to 40 drops 3 times a day, or 90 tp 100 drops if on Artemisia.
I will be back to Periwinkle tincture again soon as it is almost ready now. I forgot how much I took of that. I think it was about a half dropper full in water twice a day.
I also took Siberian Ginseng, but was having problems with my skin burning around my stoma on my illeostomy, so quit it. I may try it again in the future, but not right now. I also took ginger root for a short while, when I was having stomach problems, but didn't seem to help so quit.
When I was on abx, I took Acidophilus also. But don't anymore when on herbs only.
I have been on this heavy of a protocol for about 4 months now. I will probably stay on it for another month or two, then gradually cut back.
IF you are talking BULK herbs, I get them from 1st Chinese Herbs, Starwest Botanicals and the C-Salts from Wholesale Nutrition, (nutri.com). Order from nutri.com only by telephone so you get your order. They are not set up to order on the net. Shipping is free there. 1stChinesesHerbs as free shipping at $35 or more. BUt you MUST click on it when placing your order to get it.
You can get the machines for encapsulating your own herbs from either Starwest or from WonderLaboratories. Wonder is a little cheaper, and has the capsules cheaper also. Get the machine for 24 capsules at a time, if ordering from StarWest. It is the same at Wonder.
You will save from 4 to 7 times as much doing your own capsules. Bigtime savings. Does take time, but I do it while watching TV at night.
posted
Another thing. WHEN buying Sarsaparilla, do NOT buy the stuff from India. It is adulterated. I bought a bag, and it just sits here, don't know IF I will ever use it. It didn't pay to ship it back as it was so cheap to begin with. I got my last stuff of Mexican origin. They also have from Jamaica, but a lot more expensive. Don't know IF it is better or not, haven't heard.
posted
i would like to know what it costs if u follow the protocol, what did u pay for the last 4 months if u take 80 pills every day?
Posts: 21 | From Detroit | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Its doing something
![[dizzy]](graemlins/dizzy.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I have babesia and bartonella, had good initial experiences with artemisinin (strong dosage), then it became hell (extreme breathless attacks). ![[bonk]](graemlins/bonk.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic