posted
Hey folks.. I have been doing some research and I've come to realize that the European strain (what i have) seems much less severe than the strain of lyme and co-infections found in North America (initially at least).
Anyone else here bitten in Europe? Any comments?
Posts: 170 | From Vancouver | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Well, I had a boyfriend who lived in London in 1985, I was already sick, but undiagnosed. He came to visit quite often, and he got sick when he was at home.
Could be that we both got a dose of both European and North American strains. It didn't dawn on me even years later that was a possibilty.
But, There is information that lyme is transmitted sexually like syphillus. Do you know what the European strains are?
Thanks
Gael
Posts: 121 | From philadelphia | Registered: Feb 2006
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I read that European strains usually begin with mood swings, fatigue, and swelling and stiffness of the neck along with headaches. They also said that they were usually mild.
These have been my main symptoms for the last 8 months after i returned from europe.
Posts: 170 | From Vancouver | Registered: Apr 2006
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I have had just about every symptom on the long list. I was diagnosed in 1999 with lyme, bart, babs and erlichiosis, collapsed in 1983.
I am much better, since taking herbs, but I still have infections. I had severe neuroborrellia.
I do have swollen hands from the bart, and some mood swings which used to be a lot worse. Do you know the names of the European strains? What symptoms are you having?
Gael
Posts: 121 | From philadelphia | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
The ones i listed... (the neck pain is really more just a feeling that my head is too heavy for my neck. (with swelling feeling of neck) ) I used to have sudden rreally hot burning feelings in my face and it would feel like i had a fever. Since starting herbs i dont have that anymore. I had really weird depression and anxiety when this first hit.. also i dont have this anymore. Sometimes i get pain in my skin.. its really hard to describe but when i touch it feels very sensitive and hurts.. Right now it feels that way on my head. oh yeah and brain fog. i have no joint, neurological problems and my brain can function fine perhaps 99.9 percent as good as before this all happened.
NOthing i have is serious or debilitating the constant fatigue is really annoying however, makes me so lethargic ( I personally call it jet lag syndrome, cause its exactly how i feel when i'm extremely jet lagged ). hopefully nothing like that will develop when i start taking proper medication.
This is something I found through google:
There are tremendous differences in how this disease manifests in Europe versus in the United States. For one thing, in early neuroborreliosis, in this country the vast majority of cases have facial palsy. These patients have subacute basilar meningitis, with or without cranial nerve palsy, whereas in Europe you see lymphocytic meningoradiculitis as the most common manifestation of early disease. There are, in fact, many, many differences in the clinical manifestations of Lyme disease. In Europe, early disease is quite indolent. The patients may not even notice an erythema migrans lesion. It's not terribly inflamed; it's very slow growing and fades very slowly as well. Whereas in the U.S., there is often intense inflammation in this rash and early dissemination is common. In Europe, we see acrodermatitis atrophicans in association with a polyneuropathy, and we don't see that in this country. In Europe, arthritis is quite uncommon, whereas in this country arthritis is extremely common in untreated patients. The severe encephalomyelitis, as I mentioned, is seen almost exclusively in Europe, whereas this subtle encephalopathy, while extremely rare, is predominately seen in this country. The difference probably has something to do with the differences in the Borrelia subspecies that we see in this country versus those seen in Europe. When you isolate Borrelia burgdorferi from acrodermatitis lesions, they are always from the subtype Borrelia afzelii and you don't see that strain in this country. In this country, basically all infections are caused by Borrelia burgdorferi sensu stricto. In Europe, they have three subspecies. They have sensu stricto, but they also have this afzelii that we see in the acrodermatitis lesions, and they have Borrelia garinii
Posts: 170 | From Vancouver | Registered: Apr 2006
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I don't really know if it is 'mild' or not, but it doesn't feel mild!
Mine started with Fatiuge, anxiety and light sensitivty. Then heart skipps/palpitations, flashing vision, blurry and double vision, jumpy vision, floaters, aches and pains pretty much all over my body, severe vertigo, confusion and difficulty concentrating, insomnia, headaches, panic attacks, muscles twitching and various other weird symptoms. I do seem to have alot of symptoms, it would be interesting to find out the differences but everyone with Lyme is different, so it's impossible to tell.
Posts: 263 | From UK | Registered: Mar 2006
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
The European strains can be much WORSE than the US strains - including almost instant paralysis. In Germany, they have wards in hospitals of people with paralysis from their Bb infections.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
I am wondering how many people/medical articles your opinions are based on.
For instance, your statement about facial palsy being very common in North America. I don't think that is true.
And what is being said about these diseases by govt officials is extremely suspect, in my opinion. Likewise, a lot of crap is being published about tickborne diseases.
I have heard of euros with arthritis and americans with severe neuro problems. Maybe there are some differences in manifestations of various strains, but not enough is known yet to make categorical statements like these.
I have read research that shows it is the virulence of the strains acquired that determines the disease severity, not related to geography or tissue type of the patient. That is, various species of borrelia are made up of many strains, and those strains can have sub-populations that vary a lot in the disease manifestations they cause.
Another factor is that borrelia can hide out and only present symptoms in an erradic pattern and over a period of time that can be quite extended. Don't know what determines this pattern, but all in all it is quite a complex subject and cannot be overlaid with a few simple ideas like this. Not to mention the effect of multiple coinfections.
[ 26. April 2006, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: lou ]
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Like it was said, there are 3 main streams of borrelia around in Europe (while americans have to be content with just one - Bbss): Bbss, bor.afzelii + bor.garinii. Also minorities of other tribes here and there...
I read @ several places, that different tribes may cause different symptoms for infected people.
But, when I move from german borreliose-forum to american lymenet, I don't have the feeling to visit an unknown new world: Very similar stories - difference mostly in language.
If you would translate the texts, take away some cultural idiosyncrasies maybe and reduce them to medical information essence, then - I guess - it would be impossible to see a clear difference between americans suffering from american borrelia and europeans suffering from european borrelia.
Posts: 71 | From germany | Registered: Mar 2006
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
I don't know who started this story that lyme arthritis is rare in Europe. Every person I heard/ met that had lyme suffered/ suffers from arthritis here (Germany, Belgium, Switzerland). But I suppose in the UK, the rates are lower.
Arthritis was my first lyme symptom. Then all the neuro symptoms appeared a little after.
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Every person is different. I do think it is wrong and untrue to say the European strain is 'mild'. Europe and the UK have three strains - B.burgdoferi sensu stricto, B.garinii and B.afzelli. Surely it depends on the person, immune system etc as to how bad it is in a person? I know plenty of people in Europe who have very severe arthiritis from Lyme.
I recommend you read this report, it explains the U.S strain and European strains better.
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). hopefully nothing like that will develop when i start taking proper medication.
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