posted
Yesterday I went to a naturopathic doc and we put a sample of my blood on microscope slides, she put it under her microscope and it appeared on the TV screen & she even filmed it.
I could see there were 'things' INSIDE of my red blood cells -- little things moving around wildly. It was amazing!
Occasionally we saw a little tiny wormy looking thing that was supposedly a spirochete.
Saw that some of my RBCs were sticking to each other...thereby confirming the fact that I've got some 'sticky blood' issues.
Also saw these awesome white blood cells just hanging out by my RBCs waiting for the critters to come out so the WBC could gobble the critter up.
AND we also saw LOTS and LOTS of Bb cysts in that one little blood sample.
For any of you that get a chance to have this done - do it - it's fascinating - it's like a little universe in one drop of blood. (The body is so amazing, isn't it?)
At one point she took the slide out and ran a screwdriver thru the sample, trying to break down the RBCs - then put it back under the microscope and it looked like it was snowing because of all the little parasites & various critters scrambling looking for a place to hide since the protection of the RBCs were mostly gone.
So knowing that you can take a simple sample of blood and basically see ALL 3 FORMS of the Bb...WHY ON EARTH ARE WE NOT USING DARK-FIELD MICROSCOPY AS A MEANS TO AID IN DIAGNOSIS?
Yeah, yeah, I know that Lyme is a CLINICAL diagnosis and I'm not implying that needs to be chagned...but I'm wondering why we waste time & money with all those problematic PCRs and ELISA tests, and even rely soley on the (specialized) Western Blot when we can seemingly take one drop of blood and see the spirochete, the stealth form, and the cyst in one drop of blood?
I realize that Bb likes to hide and that ideally it likes to hide in fat & tissues (to my understanding) and I've got lots of fat for my Bb to hide in - but apparently my fat is full and I've got lots of stealth forms that want to hang out in my RBCs. OR despite the plentiful offering of fat -- I've got Bb that prefer my RBCs because I've been feeing them too well. (yes, I'm going to be a good girl now and change my diet.....@#$% it!)
I've suddenly forgotten my question.
Wait............. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Oh yes - now why is it we don't seem to utilize the dark field microscope AT ALL to even aide in diagnosis??
I trust there will be a political component in this answer....I just want someone to spell it out for me so I can quit feeling both curious AND stupid.
Thank you in advance for all of your bright, insightful, easy-to-understand answers. (I'm in a fog today. Please be kind.)
If your answer is highly controversial, please free free to PM me or email me at [email protected]
Hugs &
-------------------- DR. Wiseass NOT a real doc - just a real wise Posts: 792 | From USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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hopeful123
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3244
posted
dr.,
nothing to do with your question, but how the heck are you? don't see you around. how's it going with possible tia?
hoping it's okay with you.
-------------------- some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield Posts: 1160 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
Hahahah !!! My ND does not advertise and is not in any phone book, only by referral and she does not accept you for an appt with out careful pre-screening...............
cheers !
Posts: 116 | From Plano, Texas, USA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
now why is it we don't seem to utilize the dark field microscope AT ALL to even aide in diagnosis??
--
My LLMD uses it to diagnose his patients... Along with symptoms and history of course. I really don't understand people who 'don't believe' in it. I mean, It's basically like saying you don't believe in Borrelia...
Posts: 263 | From UK | Registered: Mar 2006
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trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
I agree with nukegirl. Sounds like this practice is not very legit.
Bb is not found very easily in the blood, how could you find lots and lots of cysts there when the cystic form doesnt occur in the bloodstream, but rather in tissues?
What were all the "little parasites & various critters" she found? could she name and identify them? You may have babesia in there, as it tends to invade RBCs, but I do not believe Bb invades the RBCs.
I dont think what you saw was being explained truthfully. I have been reading about cells and microbiology and such and even in my limited knowledge, this seems like a scam.
trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
I am not questioning whether darkfield is a hoax. It is used widely in the scientific field. What I am questioning is the accuracy of the interpretation of what appeared on the screen.
Microbiology is difficult and understanding microscopic organisms by SITE is an art that takes years of practice.
The things that this specialist saw were there, no doubt, but whether they are realted to Bb and Coinfections is another story.
Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
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Areneli
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6740
posted
If it was true then any PCR from blood would be positive. And we know it is not.
Posts: 1538 | From Planet Earth | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by trails: I am not questioning whether darkfield is a hoax. It is used widely in the scientific field. What I am questioning is the accuracy of the interpretation of what appeared on the screen.
Microbiology is difficult and understanding microscopic organisms by SITE is an art that takes years of practice.
The things that this specialist saw were there, no doubt, but whether they are realted to Bb and Coinfections is another story.
My LLMD leaves them for many hours and keeps checking, he incubates them I think. He can actualy see the spirochetes grow and move around. You can see one of his videos here; http://lymerick.ulmarweb.dk/video/AndyWright2004-640.wmv
I would only trust my LLMD because he knows exactly what to look for and how to see them. I wouldn't trust someone without alot of knowlege about microscopy and Borrelia...
If this is a hoax, then I guess the Bowen lab would be a hoax, too?
They are easier to see in the blood than everyone thinks, Dr Mattman and Bowen lab can see them easily in their patients blood. You need to see it for yourself to believe it...
-------------------- May God Bless you every day. And Never say never and do not give up no matter what. We need you to help others. Posts: 1288 | From Tetons Wyoming | Registered: Oct 2000
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dmc
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5102
posted
I had it done bqck in 1998 (pre-lyme dx)by a nutricionist...she said the "round cyst" looking things are yeast. I had a lot of those and that explained why I craved sweets.
I too had the roulle (sp) of the red blood cells...they were mushed together forming a chain. Yes, sticky blood. She put me on digestive enzymes, a liquid to change my bloods ph to an ackaline ph, and in 2 weedkss the rbc were seperate. She even gave me videos of my blood both first visit and the second.
Posts: 2675 | From ct, usa | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Wow. I've started quite an active discusion.
Let's see if I can address all questions/comment.
I have been on oral abx for almost 18 months now - various ones. I don't know if I could list them now - feeling like crap.
My naturopathic doc has been dealing Lyme patients & has been involved in Lyme studies for several years - so I have confidence that she knows what she's talking about.
She has a certificate in microscopy - didn't examine it - just noticed she had one...don't know where she got it - but I doubt that the 7-11 gave it to her.
Among other things -she pointed out yeast in my blood sample. They looked a certain way; and yes I had an embarassing amount of it. I'm now on a good girl diet and have NO energy because my body wants SUGAR!
I DO, in fact, have babesiosis - which could have been the parasites that were literally dancing inside of my RBCs.
My ND did not say - "Hey, look there's some babesia - she said: 'those are parasites'.
I know that Babesia is a parasite. Not a big leap on my part - but I thought I could make that assumption quite safely.
As for spirochetes - only saw a few in my blood and those, of course, were on the OUTSIDE of the RBCs but they looked like they were trying to get IN the RBC - so don't know about that.
Those were more difficult to differentiate with the other wiggly stuff - but if you stared at them and watched their movements - you could see there was a difference in their movement and in their overall look.
Yes, there was some other junk in there that she didn't really try to explain to me.
In fact, she said that as an ND in my state - she is not allowed to DIAGNOSE so if she were to see spirochetes in the blood of someone that is not diagnosed with LD, she would suggest they see another (LLMD) doc - but she couldn't point and say = 'oh look, it's a spirochete'.
With me - because I was already diagnosed, she felt more comfortable doing so. That's what she told me.
As far as the stealth form - IF some STEALTH form was INSIDE the RBC's it would have been too hard to differentiate between those and the above mentioned parasites.
I guess I made an assumption that many of the thingys that were floating around everywhere after she crushed up the RBCs were STEALTH form because I guess I thought if the critters had shed their cell wall (which is what the stealth form is..) THEN they'd have to be inside the protection of something with a cell wall, right? Or am I missing a good foundation in biology?
So - I freely admit I may or may not have seen the stealth form. I've not received a degree in microscopy but I'm about to head up to 7-11 for a Big Gulp in a minute....oh wait, I can't have Dr. Pepper anymore...@#$^% it!!
As far as seeing white blood cells - she pointed out a few that were neutrophils and I compared it to the picture from a poster on her wall. Yep. Looked pretty much the same.
Now - about the cysts....saw oodles & gobs of cysts - especially considering we were just dealing with a small sample of blood.
I have not taken any Flagyl or other cyst-busting abx, so this probably shouldn't be that surprising.
She pointed a few clusters of cysts - which even I could tell the difference between the yeast & the cysts - basically because of the shape. The cysts looked a little rounder & consistent in shape. I can't really describe it because my vocabulary center of my brain is being blocked today.
I wish I could upload my video onto the net somehow - I'd be happy to show it off.
My family is starting to get embarassed that everytime someone walks in the door I say: "Wanna see my infections?"
Thank you to whomever showed the link for the lymerick site. I think the general site is:http://lymerick.ulmarweb.dk/
THIS IS A GREAT SITE - with lots of microscopy videos and pics and stuff.
ALSO - I know of someone that was going to post instructions on the net of HOW TO CONVERT ANY MICROSCOPE INTO A DARK FIELD MICROSCOPE . Unforuntely, I can not find that link right now because, again, my brain is full of yeast & critters!
Thank you to those that asked about my other health condition - you are very kind. I am still trying to live quite calmly as I do believe it was quite probably that I had a TIA or a TIA -like experience.
I haven't been back for my followup with the doc because he postponed me - so I just said I wanted them to fax the findings from the MRI and yeah, there were some lesions (or is it legions?) or maybe a legion of lesions on my brain - but said it was 'consistent with Lyme disease or small vessel disease'.
After I read the report - I don't know why I calmed down. It's like "I'm on heparin. I'm trying to stay calm. I know of other LD patients that have had TIA's - what am I supposed to do about it? I try not to think about it because it makes me irritable as I'm a profound control freak and it's hard to control embolisms and such. So please free free to keep me on your prayer list.
I don't know if I've addressed all the question/comments - but I'm tired now so don't care.
For all you doubting thomases that distrust MY ND or the information gleaned from a dark field microscope --
Gotta take a nap now...since I can't have a Big Gulp.
Hugs &
-------------------- DR. Wiseass NOT a real doc - just a real wise Posts: 792 | From USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by DR. Wiseass: I don't know if I've addressed all the question/comments - but I'm tired now so don't care.
[/QB]
You're so funny!!
Hope you feel better soon! That sugar craving will decrease the longer you are on treatment for the yeast. Then you will feel ALMOST free of the incessant desire for a Dr Pepper!!
PS... Hope your dr decides to get you some flagyl very soon!!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by DR. Wiseass: My naturopathic doc has been dealing Lyme patients & has been involved in Lyme studies for several years - so I have confidence that she knows what she's talking about.
She has a certificate in microscopy - didn't examine it - just noticed she had one...don't know where she got it - but I doubt that the 7-11 gave it to her.
That's the main thing, the test is fine. It's the person who's doing the test. You need to trust the person, I know my LLMD knows exactly what to look for. I will ask him exactly what he does, I think he leaves them overnight and keep an eye on them.
The website was http://www.lyme-diagnosis.org.uk/ I am actualy getting a darkfield microscope in about a month or so, so I will let you know what I see and take some pictures.
Posts: 263 | From UK | Registered: Mar 2006
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