posted
I got very scared today when my daughter (9 1/2 years old) started bleeding from her nose as we were walking from her school to our car.
I have been suspecting that she has Lyme and/or co-infections - probably passed on to her from me through pregnancy.
I just starter seeing a LLMD myself, and so far I am still negative for Lyme although my doctor still believes I have it along with Babesia and Bartonella.
I am now positive for Erhilichia and Salmonella since I started taking Doxy.
My daughter has some of the symptoms of Lyme, and she had literally a bloody nose today.
Looking back, I think she have had nose bleeding occasionally (not from blowing her nose).
Does anybody know if nose bleeding can be related to Lyme?
My LLMD doesn't see children, and I called another local LLMD (Dr. F), but she is not taking any new patients at this time!
I explained the situation to the receptionist, and she is going to ask Dr. F to see if she can see my daughter.
Of course, my daughter is totally scared of blood tests, and with her agressiveness (sign of Lyme?) I can only imagine her screaming and yelling to protest against any blood test at the doctor's office or a lab.
shizuko
Posts: 110 | From Northern Virginia | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I have no idea if nose bleeding is lyme related.
I will say that growing up I had nose bleeds and the best advise I got years ago from a doc was to take Vitamin K.
My son went thru a phase around your childs age with nose bleeds and it was a passing deal. I gave him Vitamin K and it always resolved the issue. Also lying down and being still helped as my old doc advised
Hope this issue resolves and your child is healthy!
Jar
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
I've had nosebleeds all my life, long before Lyme. But I've also had all kinds of allergies and I think that was the main cause. Then if you add things like forced-air heating in the winter, it can get worse.
I vaguely remember nosebleeds as being listed in one of the many Lyme symptom lists I've read since being bitten. But it also seems like one of those symptoms that can be attributed to other things as well.
I wouldn't panic, but since she has other Lyme-oriented symptoms, then definitely mention the nosebleeds when you can get into see a Lyme doctor.
By the way, do you think it would help calm or distract your daughter about blood tests if she listened to music on an iPod or headphones as they draw the blood? Just a thought.
Good luck, Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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When I was young, especially around 9 or 10, I used to just get spontaneous gushing nosebleeds frequently for no particular reason. And I had no allergies or other issues.
Don't know if that's a lyme thing because I'm not 100 percent sure I was sick then, but it very well could be. They couldn't find any explanation for the frequency/severity of them.
Alison
--------------------
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. --- Edward R. Murrow Posts: 923 | From California | Registered: Aug 2005
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
I've had nose bleeds for 26 years.
I've had 2 septoplasty surgeries; surgery on the nose on th "deviated septum" which was to stop my nose bleeds! Neither of the surgeries accomplished this.
Good luck; mine are finally more infrequent. I'd wake up to them in the morning feeling the warm blood coming out of my nose.
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I work in the Child life Dept of a hospital, which helps to prepare kids for stressful procedures (among other things), so I can understand your concern about your daughter's fear of bloodwork.
I found a couple of good links for you talking about how parents can help their kids deal with procedures.
I hope this helps!
Posts: 56 | From RI | Registered: Aug 2003
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
I never use to get them but now usually left nostril every other day? It seemed to start after my accident in 4x4 ,nose got broke then i fixed it but didnt see the bottom part was broken and it healed slightly to the right I also had a growth in that nostril after the wreck but yanked it out literally by the roots looked like a polip??
Then again I have had lyme since 1988 long before wreck.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
While by no means all ticks carry Lyme disease, some ticks carry more than one disease, and dogs can develop more than one illness from a single tick bite, Concurrent infection with Lyme and ehrlichiosis is being reported. There are three important organisms involved in ehrliciosis. Ehrlichia canis which causes ehrlichiosis, circulates in white blood cells. Ehrlichia platys causes infectious cyclic thrombocytopenia (low platelet count) and circulates in the platelets. Sometime Ehrlichia equi, which causes Potomac fever and equine granulocytic ehrlichiosis, can be found in neutrophils, a kind of white blood cell, in dogs, and make them ill too.
E. Canis is usually transmitted by the brown dog tick - Rhipicephalus sanguineus - and is found world wide. Ehrlichiosis can occur at any time of the year, although is more common in the warm months. There is usually a 1-3 week incubation period, but it's generally more than 2 months before dogs are presented for signs of illness. There are three stages of infection.
In the acute phase the organism - a rickettsial - spreads from the site of the bite to the spleen, liver and lymph nodes, causing them to enlarge. Blood vessels become inflamed and platelet survival time is reduced. There is a reduction in the white blood cell count and often mild anemia too. In the subclinical stage the antibody production against the organism increases, but thrombocytopenia continues.
In the chronic stage the bone marrow is affected and few blood cells are produced. Dogs present with a history of lethargy, fever, depression, and anorexia resulting in weight loss. Spontaneous bleeding is often first reported as nose bleeds following sneezes. Petechiae {small red blood blisters} are seen, particularly on mucous membranes. Respiratory distress (coughing) and neurological signs - head tilt, difficulty walking, and painful eyes {may herald uveitis and retinal hemorrhage and detachment in chronic cases}, may also be reported. Edematous swelling of the legs and scrotum may also be seen..
In the chronic stage occasionally arthritis and seizures may occur. Concurrent infection with some of the other tick borne diseases - babesia, Hepatozoon canis or E. Platys will worsen the symptoms of E. Canis. Fortunately, the first two rarely occur in the northeast.
Note: "E" stands for Ehrlichia
(1) E. risticii (2) E. canis (3) E. equi HGE, human granulocytic ehrlichiosis Human monocytic ehrlichiosis (HME), caused by the organism Ehrlichia chaffeensis.
Might want to keep that in mind. Thats a DVM talking.
How Vitamin K Deficiencies Occur Human intake of vitamin K comes from two main sources - our diets and synthesis from intestinal bacteria. Vitamin K deficiencies can be caused by a variety of factors. These include:
Not consuming enough vitamin K from one's diet can contribute to a deficiency. Dietary vitamin K is highest in leafy green vegetables such as lettuce, kale, broccoli and collard greens. These are foods that many people don't eat frequently.
A diet with high intakes of salicylates can block vitamin K. Salicylates are found in foods such as nuts, fruits, spices and mints. Aspirin is a salicylate. Blocking vitamin K is why aspirin can "thin" the blood - it basically keeps blood from coagulating. This is why too much aspirin can cause stomach and intestinal bleeding.
Antibiotics can cause bleeding problems from vitamin K deficiencies. Antibiotics destroy not only harmful digestive tract bacteria, but also the beneficial intestinal bacteria that is needed to create vitamin K. In order to replace the beneficial intestinal bacteria after a course of antibiotics we have found that we have to take probiotic supplements containing acidophilus.
You can usually get these at most drug stores or health food stores. The refrigerated kind is often best because the cultures last the longest when they have been kept cold.
Many health books also recommend eating yogurt with active cultures in place of taking probiotic supplements, but I've personally not found this to be as effective.
Cultured food like yogurt with active cultures or ranch dressing made from buttermilk seem to be somewhat effective for us in increasing vitamin K levels, but for significant bleeding problems after a course of antibiotics, probiotic supplements containing acidophilus seems to help us the most. One of the supplements that we've found to work well for us is Solgar's Multi-Acidophilus powder.
Replacing beneficial bacteria after antibiotics is standard conventional medical advice in many European countries, but does not seem to be common medical advice in the United States.
Vitamin K
Read my disclaimer and terms of use.
Contents:
Overview Symptoms of Vitamin K Deficiencies How Vitamin K Deficiencies Occur Vitamin K Deficiencies - A Common Link in Connective Tissue Disorders?
Overview
Many of the features of common chronic disorders, especially connective tissue disorders, are identical to the symptoms of vitamin K deficiencies. Is this a coincidence, or could vitamin K deficiencies be an often overlooked factor in many disorders currently attributed to genes or other causes?
I've been diagnosed with a variety of overlapping inherited connective tissue disorders that all have bleeding problems as symptoms, yet all of my bleeding problems stopped when I changed my diet to get more vitamin K. I've been to many doctors throughout my life, including a hematologist, for my bleeding problems, yet I was never tested for a vitamin K deficiency.
I learned about vitamin K from nutrition books and doing my own research on the Internet. It does make me wonder how many other people there are who have bleeding problems caused by an undiagnosed vitamin K deficiency, an easily correctable condition.
Note: High vitamin K intake can interfere with anticoagulant medication. Remember to check with your doctor before making any diet or supplement modifications, especially if you are on anticoagulants.
Symptoms of Vitamin K Deficiencies Vitamin K is known to be needed to coagulate blood and to maintain proper bone density. It plays a key role in proper development of the fetus. Deficiencies of vitamin K have been linked to:
Heavy menstrual bleeding* Gastrointestinal bleeding Hematuria {blood in the urine} Nosebleeds Eye hemorrhages Anemia Gum bleeding Prolonged clotting times Hematomas Hemorrhaging Ovarian Hemorrhaging Easy bruising Purpura Osteopenia Osteoporosis Fractures Hypercalciuria Liver Cancer Calcification of soft tissue, especially heart valves {See my section on Calcium Deposits for more on this topic}.
Birth defects linked directly to vitamin K deficiencies include:
Underdevelopment of the nose, mouth and mid face Shortened fingers Cupped ears Flat nasal bridges
The following birth defects have been linked to anticonvulsant drugs, which block vitamin K:
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
I believe I read somewhere, of course I can't put my finger on it! That nosebleeds were caused by babesia. I have had them many times, and they are more than annoying....they're scary.
Here's a link where they were discussed previously: Nosebleeds
trueblue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7348
posted
shizuko ~ sorry to hear about your daughter's bloody nose. It can be frightening but you'll get to the bottom of it.
Probably a lot faster than when it happened to me around 1960.
I had spontaneous nose bleeds as a small child. Gushers! They dragged me to most prominant pediatric hemotologist in the country at that time and kept testing me for bleeding disorders.
I spent a few years of my life with my nose stuffed with cotton. (I was the walrus... coo coo ca choo!)
After all the testing and cauterizations I eventually outgrew it. My last cauterization was at around 15 and it had been a few years from the previous one.
I don't think they knew what it was and I'm assuming a vitamin K deficiency. After reading Trees link I do seem to fit the profile.
My coagulation times are often off for no apparent reason and using heparin once a day to flush IV's raises my clotting time and makes me bruise even easier.
Hmmm... something esle to add to the list of things for the doc to check. Pffft.
Good luck, shizuko and your daughter, I hope it's resolved soon.
Thanks for all then information Tree!
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