I know that this subject has been tackled lots of times before but I am struggling with a decision so I'm laying it out again.
My daughter has a low functioning gall bladder that in retrospect has probably been sick for a while, way before treatment, but even just 500 mg of Biaxin makes it flare so much that I can't bear to give it to her. I am waiting for the general surgeon to decide whether it should come out or not but want to be prepared.
Her llmd wants it out and feels like when we want to get serious, we will find someone to take it out. I want her well yesterday so if this will help, take it away! What has been your experience-I know some of you still feel it after it is removed, but has your lyme improved after?
Your replies are greatly appreciated, McKale
Posts: 13 | From Winchester, VA | Registered: Feb 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Here are some websites to help you understand the gall bladder functions, what happens when it is removed and in what situations this is indicated:
A hidascan basically indicates blockage or otherwise of the outlet tube from the gall bladder - usually caused by a stone which may or may not be seen on ultrasound.
Definition: Acute cholecystitis is a sudden inflammation of the gallbladder that causes severe abdominal pain.
Alternative Names: Cholecystitis - acute; Gallstones - acute cholecyctitis
Causes, incidence, and risk factors:
In 90% of cases, acute cholecystitis is caused by gallstones in the gallbladder, which obstruct the duct leading from the gallbladder to the common bile duct (which drains into the intestine).
Severe illness, alcohol abuse and, rarely, tumors of the gallbladder can also cause cholecystitis.The trapped bile becomes concentrated and causes irritation and pressure build-up in the gallbladder.
This can lead to bacterial infection and perforation. The attack may follow a large or fatty meal.Gallstones occur more frequently in women than men, and it becomes more common with age in both sexes."
Note: alcohol converts to ethanol...which Bb is causing...ie., ethanol...too much.
Documentation:
"Spirochetes have a limited metabolism and can only ferment a few types of organic molecules.
They ferment carbohydrates to acetate, ethanol, CO2, and H2 as major end products.
All spirochetes so far examined use the Embden-Meyerhoff-Parnas pathway to take glucose to pyruvate.
Under anaerobic conditions this is converted to acetate and ethanol using common fermentative pathways.
Interestingly, the facultative anaerobes in the group use both oxidative phosphorylation and substrate level phosphorylation in the presence of air and seem to be dependent on at least some fermentation. The TCA cycle has not been detected in these microbes, and it is unclear how they get their ATP by oxidative phosphorylation.
B. burgdorferi will also move away from ethanol and butanol."
Aniek
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Member # 5374
posted
According to my LLMD, the reason people sometimes still feel the gallbladder after it is taken out is because the pain is not coming from the gallbladder but from a spasm next to the gallbladder.
There are definitely potential problems from having the gallbladder taken out. One is that some people can no longer digest fat. But I know people who have had it out and are fine.
If she can't take abx, then it's a problem I would think. There is a good chance it isn't working properly because it is infected with the Lyme. If that's true, the only way to get it better without taking it out is by taking abx.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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AZURE WISH
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Its true some people have problems with the connecting (best way I can think to describe it is a tube like structure)
It is called the shpinctor of odi (sp?) and it conintues to spasm. It can cause pain.
I had my gullbladder out cuz of frequent gullbladder attacks. I had stones from rocephin.
I am ok as far as my lack of gullbladder goes... I had it out in summer of 2003.
I can eat fat without any problems too. Although my diet was never really high fat to start with.
TheCrimeOfLyme
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Member # 4019
posted
I had my gallbladder taken out when I was 24 ( 7 stones)
I got fat, couldn't lose the weight. I had to run to the bathroom ( and I do mean run) after eating,
and worst yet? It didn't cure the pain. I suffered for 6 years with gallbladder attacks day in and day out, even though it was gone and taken out years earlier.
After 6 years, getting lyme, and getting alternative, I did a liver flush for gallstones ( they are FORMED IN THE LIVER, NOT THE GALLBLADDER, SO removing the gallbladder does NOTHING as so far as a tendency to make stones)
and .. believe it or not.. 6 years after NTO having a gallbladder, I got gallstones out doing a liver flush - they were black. My surgeon way back then told me when my then husband
asked what kind of stones I had ; the surgeon looked and said "such and such kind, they are black". I cant remember what they were called.
And .. my pain is now gone.
After six long agonizing years.
I dont know how old your daughter is. I have three precious kiddos myself. But ...
if you can.....
and if you want.... www.curezone.com Hulda Clark's liver flush. My boyfriend avoided surgery ( gallbladder obviously) and no longer has gallstones as well. And he got to keep the gallbladder
Jodie
-------------------- You want your life back? Take it. Posts: 3169 | From Greensburg, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I wholeheartedly second what jodie wrote. I have done the Hulda Clark flush (found on curezone.com) several times and got out thousands of stones and sludge. To me, it is truly amazing.
I have found that doing the flush while sick is less fun than doing it while well, as it is more taxingon the body, but still worth it definitely.
The one modification that I made that seemed to make it work much better for me when I was sick was to not eat anything the day of the flush, rather than the low fat breakfast and lunch recommended. When I did that, I only got out a few stones, but when I didn't eat anything, it was much more effective.
Alison
--------------------
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. --- Edward R. Murrow Posts: 923 | From California | Registered: Aug 2005
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Health
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posted
Hi Mckale,
Did your daughter have the liver tests done? and did they show high biliburim?
I am having something that sounds very similiar happen, and my liver tests showed normal the LLMD said to me.
I cannot process the herxing it seems like.
Very ill I am, will be going up to see the GP to get testing.
thanks,
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Thank you all for your input. Yes Trish- she has had a high billirubin count but I was also told her liver was healthy.
She has had a ultrasound, didn't show any stones, and a HIDA scan that said she had an ejection fraction of 17%. When not flaring, she still has general nausea and diarrhea often. I have been restricting her diet for a while and yes its definitely worse if she eats the wrong foods.
It's gonna be hard to get this stubborn 15 year old to drink olive oil and epsom salts but I'll give it a try!
Posts: 13 | From Winchester, VA | Registered: Feb 2006
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Aniek
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Member # 5374
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Check the olive oil with a doctor first. I was told to stay away from all fat, including olive oil, when they thought I had gallbladder problems.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Prior to getting my diagnosis of lyme I had horrible gall bladder problems for years that the doctors could not figure out. I had the gall bladder out the year before I found out I had lyme and started tx. The pain I experienced was gone after they removed my gall bladder. They found stones and sludge. Many pts. experience gall bladder stones due to lyme and a recent article specifically discussed it in conjunction with bartonella infection. I highly recommend you consider removal for your daughter. I had pain one time ( a herx like pain there ) 2 years later for 20 minutes, but other than that, no problems. It was the best thing I could have done for myself.
Posts: 55 | From Mamaroneck, New york | Registered: Apr 2006
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