posted
I just posted same in "general". Haven't heard anything yet either.
Posts: 263 | From Georgia | Registered: Feb 2006
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cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
I havent heard anything, but did get this email today about this being discussed tonite.
tune in tonite via the internet The call-in hours are Thursdays, 6PM Pacific - 8PM Central - 9PM Eastern USA and Canada Toll Free Line is 1-888-762-8153 extension 897 International Callers may call 1-321-253-9667
Please remember that the call-in numbers are for questions and comments. Listen to the show worldwide at http://www.highway2health.net
On IN SHORT ORDER, Thursday, May 25th at 9:00PM EST, Sue Vogan will be speaking with Randy Sykes, Dee Clinton, and Margie Tietjen. It's the hottest topic in the Lyme disease community -- the Dr. Charles Jones' hearing.
Randy Sykes is a Lyme Disease advocate, Lyme Disease support group leader and founder of The Greater Hartford Lyme Disease Support and Action Group. His website is one of the best, most informative sites available -- putting out facts about this truly devastating illness.
He also knows Lyme Disease firsthand -- being a victim himself. May is Lyme Disease Awareness month and last year, Randy was key in organizing and orchestrating the finest Lyme Disease conference in history.
It was so educational that people are still talking about it. Randy is our expert tonight on advocacy and conferences. And, he is scheduled to attend the Jones hearing today.
Dee Clinton has been a member of the non-profit organization Survivors of Homicide, Inc for 11 years, having served as the Recording Secretary for five years and
President for two years. She ran several annually rallies and is our expert tonight on non-profit organizations. And, she is scheduled to attend Dr. Jones' hearing today.
Margie Tietjen is a journalist who writes thought-provoking articles regarding a variety of topics. Her articles have been published in newspapers, Rumor Mills News, and other various online outlets.
Margie attends many of the conferences, health fairs, and speaks out in hopes of educating professionals and the public about Lyme disease.
Margie is our expert tonight on fairness in journalism. And, she has "reserved" her seating and received "confirmation" that a there will be room for her the Jones hearing today.
We will hear the outcome of Thursday's hearing, discuss the truths and scuttlebutt that has been surrounding the hearing, and where it all may be leading. Is there a new push for ...
more honesty in the Lyme disease community? After 31 years since Lyme disease was first named, why hasn't there been more progress? Why can one disease be treated with long-term antibiotics and not Lyme disease?
Are Lyme literate physicians (LLMDs) in danger of becoming extinct? Why is there division and conflicts within the Lyme disease community? We'll hear about legislation meddling,
a volunteer contract, reservations and confirmations, Lyme fraud, and moles. This is one show you won't want to miss.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
Can't, thanks for posting what you did! Bettyg
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daystar1952
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3255
posted
Most of the hearing consisted of the prosecution's witness's testimonies. Dr. Shapiro from Yale of course the most disturbing . There were about 70 people there but I felt there could have been much more support.
Shapiro said that the risk of aquiring Lyme in Nevada was just about non existent and also he said there was no lyme in Oklahoma however, I have heard of 4 people who acquired it there. He was basing his conclusions on the number of ticks in each area. As we know there is a very large chance thatlyme and it's coinfections are not just passed by ticks. Durland Fish made the charts they were going by
Shapiro also said that no one has ever seen a case of congenital lyme and that it can not be passed on through breast milk. He feels you should not test for lyme if the probability is low.
Shapiro then talked about signs and symptoms....how symptoms are a complaint and a sign is an objective finding , such as a rash or Bell's Palsy. He kept bring up the objective sign of swollen knees. From what I have seen and experienced.....lyme is more often a neurological disease and many, including myself never had a swollen knee,
Shapiro told the courtroom that 90% of lyme vicitms present with a rash. Symptoms such as behavior problems, headache, fatigue, etc have to accompany objective signs, such as a rash or bell's palsy. Of course many of us know that lyme rarely presents with objective signs and that's one reason we are told it is all in our head. My only objective sign was low blood flow to the brain, shown by a SPECT Scan and of course the mainstream docotrs rarely order Spect Scans
The point Shapiro was getting at was that Jones could not have determined all this over the phone, I didn't understand, haven't many of you heard about doctors online that you can pay a fee to , who will review your case and authorize for the purpose of buying drugs on the internet? Isn't that legal?
We were told that mood swings, irritability, depression, etc are not indicative of lyme but are symptoms generally associated with psychiatric problems. We were told that the child recieved meds for anxiety and was doing much better.Shapiro then said that anxiety and stress can then cause somatic disorders which momic disease. Loss of memory and concentration come from the psychiatric problems.
Shapiro said that there are no "specific" bands on the Western Blot, that they judge by the number of bands someone has. The statement that really blew my mind was when he firmly stated that mycoplasma fermentens was found in most of the population and was no big deal because it did not cause disease.
I've asked an expert in this area and was told that mycoplasmas are pathogenic and can cause death. Shapiro said that there are no studies out there that show that mycoplasma causes neuro disease. I think this was an attempt to discredit Jones for perhaps testing the child for mycoplasmas.
After Shapiro's testimony, Jone's lawyer asked for more time to get together his cross examination. It shouldn't be difficult to find the research that proves Shapiro wrong on most counts. So, the next Hearing is on June 22 where we hope Jone's lawyers will produce his expert witnesses. If there is any way for you do get there, it's very important. Remember there is no need for reservations or confirmations....just come. I was disappointed that the courtroom was half empty. No one was there checking off names deciding whether or not you could attend if you didn't have a reservation. It is illegal to reserve seats at a Hearing. In fact the officials in govt can't even do that
posted
I am amazed at the outright falsehoods of the incompetent lying Shapiro. Even Steere published on the rashes question. If this is the kind of person Yale hires, their reputation is undeserved. A cow college in the midwest has much better expertise.
Is this hearing being recorded? It should be presented to the board of trustees and president of Yale along with the evidence of this man's incompetence.
It is also clear that due process does not seem to have a place in CT medical board hearings either, just like NY. Why were Shapiro and his henchman allowed to present testimony with no prior notice to the opposing attorneys? Durland Fish is contemptible.
As for attendance, maybe all the squabbling discouraged people from coming. When will lymies get it into their heads that we are in a life or death situation and there is no room for egos and infighting? Steere, Shapiro, et al must laugh their heads off everytime this kind of thing happens. Anyone who says a simple email notifying ellen they were coming is a great imposition is silly. Do you think all lyme actions should be completely unorganized?
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
"Thus, compared with previous reports (11, 12), lesions were smaller in our study and often homogeneous in appearance. Classic erythema migrans (a bright-red outer border with partial central clearing) had not yet evolved in most patients. Similarly, only 7% of our patients had multiple annular erythema migrans, compared with 48% of patients in the initial series (11), presumably because the spirochete had not yet disseminated in many cases. The signs and symptoms associated with erythema migrans were similar to those in previous reports but occurred in fewer patients (11, 12).
In summary, this study gives an overview of microbiologically confirmed erythema migrans as seen in a clinical trial in endemic areas in the northeastern and north-central United States. During the first days of infection, most patients had homogeneous erythema, sometimes accompanied by nonspecific flu-like symptoms. Classic bull's-eye rashes with central clearing were infrequent."
These are quotes from:
Ann Intern Med. 2002 Mar 19;136(6):421-8. * Ann Intern Med. 2002 Mar 19;136(6):477-9. * Ann Intern Med. 2002 Oct 15;137(8):698; author reply 698.
Clinical characteristics and treatment outcome of early Lyme disease in patients with microbiologically confirmed erythema migrans.
First case of Lyme disease found in state Man worked at Lee Canyon camp
By Mary Manning LAS VEGAS SUN
A Clark County man is the first ever confirmed case of Lyme disease in Nevada, health officials reported Monday.
The middle-aged man had lived for several months in the Lee Canyon area of Mount Charleston, Clark County Health District epidemiologist Rose Bell said. No other details about the person were available because of confidentiality laws, she said.
"This is the first laboratory-confirmed case," Bell said. "It's the first I'm aware of."
The man reported his symptoms within the past month but did not have the characteristic bull's eye rash, Bell said.
"At least we know there is a possibility of acquiring Lyme disease if there are deer in the area," Bell said.
The man worked as a camp host in Lee Canyon this summer, Don Eastis, U.S. Forest Service recreation officer, said.
State Health Officer Randall Todd said 27 people have reported symptoms of Lyme disease in Nevada since 1994, but none of the cases were confirmed in a laboratory.
"We don't see very much of it in Nevada," Todd said.
In most of the cases, exposures from a tick bite occurred out of state, he said.
One of those cases was reported in Clark County in 1997 through the Nellis Air Force Base Hospital, Todd said. Nationwide, there were 3,446 cases reported in 1999, most in northeastern states. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta reported 2,141 cases so far this year.
"When you look at a map of Lyme disease, Nevada kind of disappears," Todd said.
Lyme disease is caused by an organism that lives in certain types of ticks. The ticks are found May through October throughout the United States, especially on the East and West coasts and in Wisconsin and Minnesota.
Although the Food and Drug Administration has approved a vaccine for Lyme disease, the best way to avoid it is prevention, Bell said.
Before hiking in remote areas of the Spring Mountains, check with park rangers or forest officials, Bell said.
Wear light-colored clothing and make sure arms and legs are covered. For extra protection, tuck pant legs into hiking boots.
Spreading an insecticide such as Deet on clothing before a hike will heighten protection, Bell said.
After a hike, check the whole body for ticks. If one is discovered, gently pull it out with tweezers held close to the skin. Cleanse the site with soap and water.
If any Lyme disease symptoms develop, check with a family physician, Bell said.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
(So, how many first cases can a county have? Or do health officials have amnesia?)
Review-Journal Online Monday, June 23, 1997
County waits for tick tests Physicians in Atlanta will determine whether a case of Lyme disease is Clark County's first occurrence. By Zach Thomas Review-Journal
Clark County health officials are confident that a Las Vegas woman diagnosed with Lyme disease earlier this month marked the first Clark County-derived case of the illness in a human. However, they are waiting to take action until the Atlanta-based Centers for Disease Control and Prevention examines the case. A former Las Vegas woman believes she contracted the tick-borne disease during a trip to Mount Charleston in April. "Whether or not we go up there and do anything will depend on what the CDC says," said Dan Maxson, a Clark County Health District environmental specialist. "Then, just like the plague and hantavirus program, we can tell the public." Maxson said the CDC has asked to do additional blood tests on 25-year-old Annette Nu-ez. A mother of two, she and her family recently moved to Texas after her husband was transferred to an Air Force base there. After checking Nu-ez's medical records and visiting the laboratory that performed the initial blood tests, Maxson said he was confident the diagnosis was not a false-positive. Lyme disease is often misdiagnosed because the disease can manifest itself in various ways, from a skin rash to nervous system problems. District Environmental Supervisor Lon Empey said the CDC tests could take a week. Maxson said the health district could begin a tick-trapping program in the area to determine where the tick-borne disease is prevalent. "We would go up there and do some surveillance and try to find ticks that have this," he said. A potentially fatal bacterial illness spread by certain types of ticks, Lyme disease is common in the East and Midwest but is rarely reported in Nevada. Although 16 cases have been reported in the state since 1992, the victims were likely infected out of state, said Luana Ritch, a state health division spokeswoman. Nu-ez said she believes she contracted the illness after an April 11 family trip to Mount Charleston. A bank worker who spent little time outdoors, she had not left the state since the beginning of the year. Lyme disease may be new to humans in Southern Nevada, but health officials have recorded its presence in wildlife. "I know of one case in a bighorn sheep found on Mormon Mesa, about 40 miles northeast of Las Vegas," Maxson said. "There have been a few deer ticks found, but that doesn't mean they're carrying the bacteria." Deer ticks have been pegged the primary culprit for spreading the disease in the East and Midwest. The bacteria also may be found on the western black-legged tick and the lone star tick. Rene Landis, who coordinates the Nevada and Friends Lyme Disease Group, said although the disease may be less prevalent in the Las Vegas Valley than elsewhere, people need to be informed. "There's a risk anywhere that there's a humid condition and wildlife," said Landis, who also is on the board of directors of the Northern California-based Lyme Disease Resource Center. "The drier and hotter, the less the risk," she said, adding the only likely place with no risk is Antarctica. "The minute somebody says there's no risk, somebody gets infected," she said. Landis agreed the county should take action to test the tick population and inform residents, but advocated public awareness above merely testing. "If you go out there to find something, you don't necessarily find it," she said. "But if the world around you knows you're looking, they can help." After infection, Lyme disease's first symptoms are usually nausea coupled with a circular rash surrounding the bite point, according to the Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey. In later stages, the disease may affect various organs, the nervous system and the brain. Hikers and people who spend time in the wilderness may reduce their risk by checking frequently for ticks, according to the New Jersey network. If one is found, use tweezers to remove it, gripping the body as close to the skin as possible. The insects may be tested for the disease, so save the tick in a sealed container. A Lyme disease vaccine for dogs is available, and a human version is in the works.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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Previously, Lyme disease was recognized in three endemic areas: the coastal areas of the northeast (Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island), the midwest (Minnesota, Wisconsin), and the west (California, Nevada, Oregon, Utah). Although these areas are within the range of the known tick vectors, I. dammini and I. pacificus, some areas where Lyme disease has occurred are not. However, B. burgdorferi has been found in Amblyomma americanum (11) and Dermacentor variabilis; these and other ticks may be vectors in some areas.
posted
"Disjunct populations of Ixodes pacificus in Nevada..."
J Med Entomol. 1997 Jul;34(4):441-50.
Population genetic structure of Ixodes pacificus (Acari:Ixodidae) using allozymes.
Kain DE, Sperling FA, Lane RS.
Department of Environmental Science, Policy and Management, University of California at Berkeley 94720, USA.
Genetic analysis of the population structure of the western blacklegged tick, Ixodes pacificus Cooley & Kohls, was conducted using allozymes. This vector tick transmits the Lyme disease spirochete, Borrelia burgdorferi Johnson, Schmid, Hyde, Steigerwalt & Brenner, in the far-western United States. It ranges from British Columbia to Baja California and disjunct populations are present in Oregon, Nevada, Utah, and Arizona. Host-seeking adult ticks were collected from vegetation across the range of the species and were partially fed on rabbits prior to analysis. Twelve putative loci were resolved using starch gel electrophoresis. One locus, glucose-6-phosphate isomerase, formed an apparent north/south latitudinal cline and showed significant geographic structure. None of the remaining loci exhibited much genetic differentiation. Estimates of gene flow were high relative to other arthropods. Isolation-by-distance analysis suggests a recent and rapid range expansion. We conclude that the overall lack of differentiation is due high rates of gene flow.
PMID: 9220679 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Sorry everyone, but as you can see, I am enraged by Shapiro's testimony.
Rev Infect Dis. 1985 Jan-Feb;7(1):41-50.
The global distribution of Lyme disease.
Schmid GP.
In the United States three geographic areas endemic for Lyme disease are recognized: the coastal areas of the Northeast; Minnesota and Wisconsin in the Midwest; and parts of California, Oregon, and western Nevada in the West. These areas correspond to the recognized distribution of Ixodes dammini in the Northeast and Midwest and Ixodes pacificus in the West.
PMID: 3885366 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I noticed that too, betty, that the guests were more numerous. A handy way of knowing when the trolls are spying on us. Of course, they could also be registered and still be trolls.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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shazdancer
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1436
posted
Quick answer to your question -- yes, the hearings are being transcribed.
The attorney knew that Shapiro would testify, but i guess his point was that the defense team wasn't given a synopsis of what he would say.
And I agree with you -- let's support the doctor and the cause, and stop worrying about what group is organizing what.
Regards, Shaz
Posts: 1558 | From the Berkshires | Registered: Jul 2001
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valymemom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7076
posted
lou
You are always one to find the evidence; make sure ellen sees this.
Wouldn't you love to get to the next hearing!!!
Posts: 1240 | From Centreville,VA | Registered: Mar 2005
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sizzled
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1357
posted
Go to the Rally and show your support on June 2 in Hartford, Ct!
Help get others ther as well.
Posts: 4258 | From over there | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
If shapiro made some of the statements that were claimed that he made, then I expect Dr. Jones, himself, his expert witnesses, and attorney(s) to bury 97% of shapiro's(et.al.) arguments. Posts: 2708 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Someone asked if it was recorded. The court stenographer (or other title) transcribes from a recording. Also, Open Eye taped the entire hearing and interviewed people too.
posted
Chester County Pennsylvania 700 cases per 100,000 of population with CDC criteria ( I didn't: 3 bands: only lyme, babs, bart, erch EBV and Parvo so far). Perhaps the good doctors from Yale would like to have a cup of coffee on my cement patio in a 22 building apartment complex ( Hush, dont tell them I got bit in the concrete jungle) let them have a cup of coffee there, get bit, and parade their bogus statistics and denial around. Better yet, God forbid, if it happens to someone that they know or love: let see the reaction then.
Posts: 719 | From Delaware | Registered: Jan 2006
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