posted
not simply MSG but also foods with inherent glutamate content... like soy sauce, mushrooms (i think), many meat products (which i don't eat anyway)... i don't have a actual list (does anyone?)
it seems to be recommended in a lot of new anti-chonic fatigue, anti-age-related-damage scientific babble but it seems to also have a possible ring of sense to it.
if glutamates are hard to avoid, can other nutrients/chemicals nullify their deleterious effects? or does it just mildy attentuate them, and at only certain receptors? i read that theanine (the amino acid) might help? maybe taurine? (since it's an anticonvulsant)
does anyone know much about glutamate management and the theories and possible sense behind it and have wisdom/advice to share?
Posts: 244 | From Ottawa | Registered: Dec 2005
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Yes. With Mg and Zn low (they block the glutamate/NMDA receptors) = glutamate is going in = "rapid firing" = need for the body to compensate by upping GABA which will decrease dopamine...
Note to those having problems following:
The workhorses of the brain are GABA (think: red light) and glutamate (think green light). We gotta have traffic control. The green light isn't supposed to be on all the time.
Probably would be a good idea to avoid all glutamate rich foods.
In an ideal world, we would focus on restoring the nutrients that are missing that are supposed to block the glutamate receptors.
Major problem due to choline deficiency. It reduces cysteine.
Choline deficiency -> "fatty liver" We have HUGE stores of Mg in our liver that aren't "available" to help.
Why? Low choline -> low Cysteine which carries fatty acids INTO the cells.
Caffeine, America's #1 antioxidant, releases fatty acids and then cysteine is supposed to carry the fatty acids into the cells.
Think about the following:
ADHD kids are told to drink coffee.
ADHD and dyslexic kids are known to have a fatty acid problem.
Autistic kids and the above kids suffer from oxidative stress. Too many Hydrogen, not enough bicarb. pH is screwed up. = metabolic acidosis.
Instead of caffeine, they Rx another "stimulant" Ritalin which RAISES cortisol. This increases the need for Mg (they work together). Up goes plasma, not RBC levels of Mg. But...where was that extra Mg coming from? Storage? What happens longterm?
Coffee helps prevent diabetes.
Coffee, taken with lecithin, helps transport choline into the cells.
Green tea also contains caffeine.
Thanks to Prof. Bruce Ames for "Juvenon". I finally "get" it.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
ah, yes. this is starting to make sense to me.
for CHOLINE: i am currently taking galantamine ("Galantamind" supplement not RX version), but also Piracetam and Alpha-GPC/Choline-Alfoscerate... wondering if these are helpful. (IT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL IF THERE WAS DOCUMENTATION INDICATING FOR SURE WHICH CHOLINERGIC SUPPS/MEDS REALLY HELP.) i am really hoping to improve fluency and executive functioning ASAP! it would help everything in my life immesurably! my cognitive functionning is completely immesurable and i am practically always a WRECK! (i'm guessing this isn't unfamiliar, and any lingering doubts i had as if i don't have lyme i can continue to discard.)
i took some magnesium a few hours ago (Sisu mag citrate 250mg w/malic acid), and my aim is to take it hopefully 3 times a day. it is a BIG coincidence that i have constant BRUXISM, or i think it's the proper term, i gnash everyday constantly while AWAKE, who knows what i do when i sleep (one side of molars is flat because of this, this has gone on for years, initially gathered to precipitated or partially triggered by PAXIL but continued way way way beyond discontinuation of the drug.)
a problem i am wondering about magnesium though is how they say it impedes absorbtion of things... as does fibre. how much of this is an issue?
Oh! and Zinc! ZINC! OH GOD! Is Zinc easy to supplement and treat deficiencies with?! it seems magnesium supplementation takes forever!! Is ZINC any easier? I figured since I am VEGAN anyway my stores of ZINC are probably very inadequate.
OH, SO MUCH TO COVER!!! better just post this. it is so easy to get swamped and then not be able to cover anything! Posts: 244 | From Ottawa | Registered: Dec 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Inadequate or imbalanced neurotransmitters is a problem for many.
I posted about it a few days ago. Do a search. You will find the books that tell you all you need to know, how to "guess" at your imbalances, etc. I would not approach amino therapies without the help of a doctor who is up on the subject. Not many are. There is new info all the time.
I will repeat the literature here:
The Edge Effect and Healthy Nutrients Within, both by Dr. Eric Braverman. Read what Marty Hinz tells about neurotransmitters.
Maybe you want to do the "free" test on the computer to which I gave the link. It is fascinating to see the connections and to learn about them.
I repeat the link to where you can do your own neurotransmitter testing. It is the same test that is covered in detail in the Edge Effect book, which you will need to get a detailed interpretation of the test results. But it is easy to do the test on the internet -(some friendly Los Gatos institute posted it on the internet) - it calculates your results right then and there. With that result (print the last page to you will remember them), you can get the explanations in Dr. Braverman's books.
The Edge Effect gives you the symptoms that certain deficiencies of the different neurotransmitters cause. It also gives you the foods that are important and the nutrients that are important. The trick is to really understand the deficiencies/imbalances and what causes them. Don't buy a magnesium mine yet and it is usually caused by several factors. Lyme Disease is a multi-factorial disease. It may sidetrack you a bit from ABX etc., but it can be an eye opener for many ill people.
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Careful with zinc. It can be overdosed. Too little is not good, too much isn't good either.
And...
Borrelia burgdorferi contains a gene that codes for a Fur homologue. The function of this Fur protein is unknown; however, spirochetes grown at 23 or 35�C expressed fur as determined by reverse transcriptase PCR.
The fur gene (BB0647) was cloned and overexpressed as a His-Fur fusion protein in Escherichia coli. The fusion protein was purified by zinc-chelate chromatography, and the N-terminal His tag was removed to generate recombinant Fur for use in mobility shift studies.
Fur bound DNA containing the E. coli Fur box sequence (GATAATGATAATCATTATC) or Bacillus subtilis Per box sequence (TTATAAT-ATTATAA) with an apparent Kd of ∼20 nM. Fur also bound the upstream sequences of three Borrelia genes: BB0646 (gene encoding a hydrolase of the α/β-fold family), BB0647 (fur), and BB0690 (napA). Addition of metal ions was not required.
*** Binding activity was greatly decreased by either exposure to oxidizing agents (H2O2, t-butyl hydroperoxide, cumene hydroperoxide, or diamide) or by addition of Zn2+.
The toxin from Bb belongs to a family of toxic proteins known as "zinc endoproteinases" or metalloproteases, and includes the toxin from the organism causing tetanus as well as those from many other well-known infectious diseases.
The structures of this family of toxins are all very similar, as determined by x-ray crystal analysis.2
They all contain zinc
and perform the same proteolytic function, namely, cleaving the chemical (covalent) bond between two specific amino acids in a particular protein found in nerve cells.3
The substrate for this enzyme is very large, implying that any inhibitor of enzyme activity blocking the entry of the substrate into the active site must also be very large.
One reason for learning the structure of the toxin (including the active site) is to determine the geometry of this site, the exact positions of the atoms that bind other atoms in the substrate. Knowing the arrangement of these atoms permits the development of inhibitors of the toxin, substances that compete with the normal substrate for active site occupancy.4
Action of Toxin The action of botulinum (as well as the toxin from the Lyme spirochete) is to prevent, through its action as a proteolytic enzyme, the release of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine.
Areneli
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6740
posted
Even healthy people should avoid glutamate.
Our gray and white matter is already streached thin and should be treated with respect. I mean what is left of it.
Posts: 1538 | From Planet Earth | Registered: Jan 2005
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I have had to avoid glutamate for many years. My once debilitating migraines I once attributed to MSG intake only...then later I found out I have lyme disease and coinfections.
What I can tell you is avoiding glutamate helped a lot but now that I have been under treatment for lyme for two years I am finding I can now get away with eating things that I never could have gotten away with eating before treatment.
I decided to conduct a little experiement while on vacation last year after a year of intense antibiotic treatment. I had a hot dog, and not just any hot dog, a red hot dog with tons of red food coloring and glutamate up the wazooo....it was the first hot dog in five years...
guess what?!? No migraine after eating it
I think there is a tie to lyme, the neurotoxins it puts out, and then the extra load of MSG on the brain.
Pure MSG is monosodium glutamate which means it is 79% or more pure glutamate. Other glutamate like 'hydrolyzed proteins' is a form of glutamate that is not as strong as monosodium.
If you start reading labels you will find glutamate is in a lot of canned things.
Also glutamate can be made naturally just by boiling a bunch of vegetables on high heat for a long time.
The history of monosodium glutamate is interesting. The US started using it after the World War II. It was used in American soldier's food to enhance flavor and they found that it was great at masking the tinny taste of canned food.
It is accomplishes the above by tricking the brain neurologically and enhances food taste that way. It is a neurotoxin...scary, huh?!?
After the war a bunch of big wigs from the big food companies met and decided to start putting it in foods...and wha la...you have modern day prepackaged, addictive food.
That is an over simplification but you get the gist.
If you want to do further research I have found the following books very interesting....
"In Bad Taste, The MSG Syndrome" by George R. Schwartz, M.D.
"Excitotoxins, The Taste that Kills" by Russell L. Blaylock, M.D.
and "Battling the MSG Myth" by Debby Anglesey - This one was put together by a Mom and it has recipes, remedies and helpful hints.
I was sad to see that this group is no longer active but the website is still up for reference...here is a list of hidden sources of MSG...
While I was in massage therapy school I read in my pathology book that they only concrete thing they know about ALS is that it increases the neurotransmitter, glutamate, in the brain...hmm?!?! I know all this stuff is related...
Take care and hope this info. helps...
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