posted
like to know if anybody with stage 3 lyme and associated complications has been cured, if cured did all sysmptoms go away? did the fibro and cfs stay?
Does anybody in stage 3 think it will every be cured or just stabilized to maintain. I have been healthly for 2 years from 2002 to 2004 to the point of playing tournment tennis at 52. However, i just relapsed big time back to iv and orals now. SO IS THERE REALLY A CURE OR ARE WE JUST KIDDING OURSELVES!!!!. stage 3 is sooo similar to stage 3 syphillus it is quite scarey. Just been dx with secondary Sjorgren"s sydrome and can't go outside because its 90 degrees and I can't sweat. anybody have treatment for this. ME THINKS EYES MIGHT GIVE UP AND JUST READ MYSELF TO DEATH!!!!!! I wish i had access to a medical lab so that i could do research on this silly tick bite. I FEEL LIKE HAVING FRIED DEER TICKS FOR DINNER TONIGHT. ANYBODY GOT A COUPLE EXTRA THAY DON'T NEED????
luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Gosh Doc,
I'm sure sorry to hear you are in round 3. In fact, I'm reeeeeaaallly sorry to hear it.
Can I ask a couple of questions? I'm just trying to figure this stupid thing out myself.
Do you have root canals? Amalgams? Ever tested for heavy metals? History of bacterial illnesses like strep? Tonsilitis, sinuses, allergies, other autoimmune disorders, etc?
I would really appreciate your reply.
Maybe round 3 will be a brief one for you. I sure hope so!
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by chroniclymie: like to know if anybody with stage 3 lyme and associated complications has been cured, if cured did all sysmptoms go away? did the fibro and cfs stay?
Does anybody in stage 3 think it will every be cured or just stabilized to maintain. DOCDAVE
Dave, sorry to hear of your poor luck again. Someone had a dentist question the other day, and I thought of you!
From what I've read here and in the lyme books, stage 3 can NOT be cured, but hopefully LLMDs are able to get us into REMISSION! That's my hope anyway.
Fibro & fatigue will remain with us... Bettyg
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Jellybelly
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posted
I don't think CURE is in the cards at this point, but remission definetly is. I have been in remission for about 4 good years , with nearly all symptoms abating.
I am off sleep meds, and sleep all night long, by myself! I dream for the first time in most of my life. Sleep study about 4 years ago proved I wasn't dreaming. I rarely nap, am up by 7 and am usually awake till 10. I tend to flair in the spring and am there at the moment, so I do nap here and there and sometimes go to bed early.
Pain is gone (usually, but do have a new soource of pain right now) and if I do have pain, it actually responds to 2 Advil. There was a time I took 16 Advil a day which really did nothing, except to maybe take the edge off. When not flairing, I hike at 7500 feet, take long walks, work in the yard, etc. My reflexes are back! I say I now have "cat like reflexes", in that if I drop my keys, I can catch them in mid air! So amazing, there was a time that instead of catching them, I would have only made things worse my knocking them 10 feet across the room. I actually think that I could ride a bike once again, and I haven't done that, in probably 2 years, balance was to bad.
Don't get me wrong, I still have bad days here and there, but I don't ever remember in my life being this normal. People who have known me my whole life or for years are constantly amazed.
Relapses are something that we can expect, and knowing our limitations is something we can never forget. Just because we can, doesn't mean we should. Life will dish out plenty of times when we will be pushed beyond our limits, we don't need to give these little critters any other oppurtunities to sneak back in by overdoing when we don't have to. We will always be carriers.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
I Don't really think so....
we may be able to keep it at abated minimalizing our symptoms....
But that's all I've been able to achieve...
cfs and fibro pains still persist...
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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I have had lyme for 4 years and was diagnosed 3 months ago.
I don't have arthritis, or severe neuro symptoms. Mine are more chiils, nightsweats, fatigue, muscle pain,nausea, dizzyness,and one bright red yey that comes and goes.
My symptoms have changed over the years.
Becuse it has been four years an I automatically stage 3? Or is it based on symptoms?
Posts: 58 | From boston | Registered: Apr 2006
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Yes, it is absolutely possible to be totally well again. I am.
I don't even think of relapse or whatever else people seem to worry about. Whether we call it a cure or not, what difference does it make? We carry for safekeeping a number of dormant bacteria, virsuses, many parasites but in "normal" numbers that do not stress the immune system.
I cleaned up my body, I healed my body. I no longer have Lyme Disease, Ehrlichiosa, Bartonella, Babesia, Mycoplasma, Chlamydia, EB, etc. that had overtaken my body for a number of years.
But I had to do a lot of work. I dare say that I do not think anybody gets well if toxic with heavy metal, chemicals, pthelates, root canals and dental infections/wisdom teeth site infections, and an overgrowth of parasites. I know that it is possible to conquer this disease. I did it and I will be 75 before too long.
I never think of if as Lyme Disease any longer, because I have clearly learned that it is a multi-factorial disease -- and unless all underlying causes are addressed, getting well is not very likely. I have met many patients over the years, but I have not met one that got better without addressing the issues I have been talking about. I did not say it was easy.
The underlying causes have to be addressed. If not, it's time wasted, energy wasted, money wasted, and life trickles along and the patient drags behind it. It's no fun.
We all have a choice. Don't blame the spirochete. They have been with us for millions of years and they will be with us for many more. We need to clean up -- we need to clean up ourselves and everything around us. There is no other solution.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
Excellent post Gigi! You amazed me when you showed your upcoming birthday of years coming! I thought you were 50-65 at the most. Bettyg
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posted
I was stage 4 if there was one. I went at least 4 years undiagnosed, in addition to Babs, HGE, and Bartonella. I had 3rd degree heart block, day long arrythmias, encephalitis, meningitis, optic nuertis, and even the dreaded encephalomylitis, all lab confirmed, at least for the physical abnormalities, I was never given a tick bourne infection test, until this past year. The doctors considered all my other strange symptoms, such as 3rd degree heart block, or CT confirmed encephamylitis to be some unknown virus that would work itself out.
I had lab confirmed anemia, lab confirmed hemocromatosis, which went away with Babs treatment. I had ALS symptoms, TRUE ALS SYMPTOMS. Muscle biopsy confirmed, my muscles would not move when I told them to move, not in the sence that they would not move at all, but that they would move very little. I slept 16 hours a day for a year straight.........trying to get over that unknown virus of course. I had musical hallucinations, visual hallucinations, and other auditory noises that were never there. My bowles had problems, my vegas never wasn't sending signals down there to tell my colon to move food through to finish digestion, I had hepatitis (simply meaning inflamation of the Liver, not the virus) that was lab confirmed, and I also had an enlarged spleen.
My crime, supposedly Lyme isn't endemic to NC.
However, about 4 months into treatment by Doctor Jemsek...........I'm getting close to full health. I see a difference every week, and for all those who claim permanent this or permanent that, I had lab confirmed conduction defects in all 12 cranial nerves, thanks of course to Lyme and the co-infections.
IT CAN BE DONE. It takes persistance, and a partnership with your doctor. Not everything he likes to prescibe will work on you, so you must be proactive, you must keep a journal, and record what works, and don't take what doesn't. This takes time to do a personal clinical trial, but that is what this disease requires. Sometimes it takes combos of meds that you have to experiement with on your own, one day eureka, the next failure, but over time, you will discover what works. Then as others have said, stay on what works, slow and steady wins the race.
Posts: 559 | From Cary, NC | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Forgot to add that I also had frank arthritis, both knees, one elbow, for nearly a year. But, non endemic NC, so they never tested or even tried to figure out if it could have been Lyme.
I recovered:)
Posts: 559 | From Cary, NC | Registered: May 2006
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Doc,
I would really like you to answer my questions if you could, please.
Not only do I believe GiGi, but tests have borne out that I have infected root canals, heavy metals, systemic yeast. I have a lot of hope that when all these items are resolved, so will my lyme.
I would like to know if you have had any of these issues and if so, have they been resolved?
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Jellybelly: I dream for the first time in most of my life. Sleep study about 4 years ago proved I wasn't dreaming.
My dreaming has returned too, and has been attributed to the normalization of vitamin D levels that come with treatment.
I'd say a cure is possible, but requires at least 2 continuous years of abx. A shorter course won't do because these bacteria reproduce so slowly, and are subject to the effects of the abx only during their repro phase.
Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006
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Foggy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1584
posted
This is interesting. I've heard one LLMD claim Lyme develops in stages, yet another who feels unlike cancer, Lyme doesn't develop in stages. I agree with the former.
Posts: 2451 | From Lyme Central | Registered: Aug 2001
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I would really like you to answer my questions if you could, please.
Not only do I believe GiGi, but tests have borne out that I have infected root canals, heavy metals, systemic yeast. I have a lot of hope that when all these items are resolved, so will my lyme.
I would like to know if you have had any of these issues and if so, have they been resolved?
What is the treatment for heavy metals?? Also, what are the symptoms?
What is the treatment for infected root canals? (I am thinking antibodics but that must not be)
Posts: 191 | From Eastern Shore. Maryland USA | Registered: Jun 2003
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liz28
Unregistered
posted
New treatments and ideas for Lyme come up all the time. A lot of chronic Lymies turn out to have co-infections, especially babesia, and watch their situations rapidly improve as they treat both health problems. There's new antibiotics coming on the market every month, and smart people figuring out ways to jumble up the treatment combinations.
It's not like in the mainstream medical communities, where it can sometimes seem like people sit and wait, with varying degrees of patience, for some well-funded researcher to produce one miracle cure. Just toss any naysayers out of your way, and have faith in your own ability to do research and stumble on bright ideas that might help.
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Proud Pup, you asked
"What is the treatment for heavy metals?? Also, what are the symptoms?
What is the treatment for infected root canals? (I am thinking antibodics but that must not be)"
The symptom list is exactly the same as the list that you have seen I am sure for Lyme and co-infections. It is even broader. Any symptom can be caused by heavy metal and chemical toxicity.
Root canals are toxic, sooner or later. If you do a search on this board, you will find hundreds of posts and many links relating to the subjects of teeth and dental health. I encourage you to read some if you are concerned.
Treatment varies greatly, depending, and it's best to have a doctor that is familiar with heavy metal toxicity.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I'd say yes, it is possible. One of my doctors tested a woman who had been ill for 20 years, she was extremely ill, couldn't walk or anything. She was tested at the Bowen lab and got 1:128 titre. 6 months of Doxy and she was out riding horses again...
It can be done, it is very important to have a positive mind. Antibiotics are not miracles... It takes more than antibiotics to get better. If you are well enough try and do some gradual excercise, if you are not getting better after many months or years of antibiotics you should get tested for loads of things, including coinfections, virus's, parasites, heavy metals, chemical exposure etc...
It is possible to be completely symptom free, I have met many people who have recovered...
Posts: 263 | From UK | Registered: Mar 2006
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
Hiya Doc.
What's yer co-infection status? I was going downhill big-time. Tested positive for babesia WA-1. The nasty California/Washington strain.
How 'bout Bartonella? Sometimes people can test negative initially, then later test positive.
These coinfections can creep back in.
Have you considered testing or re-testing for either of these?
Sorry to hear you are not having a very good time.
I guess that means you're not gonna invite me yachting anytime soon, huh?
Michelle Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
hey chroniclymie
Not sure you can talk about being "cured" with chronic lyme but rather remission may be a better word to use.
I think in retrospect the thing that keep me the most sick over the years was not going after the babs sooner.
And the bart was a tough one to beat also. Remisson is possible with treatment but not an easy road to take. But in the end it was all worth it to me.
Over the years I have gained 80% remssion and many others have too. Many other's I have heard got better than 80% too.
You have to be really careful though when you feel yourself slipping to have some back up plan to go back to ASAP. The trick is not to let your germ load get too high again.
Good luck and may you find your remission too.
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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chroniclymie
Unregistered
posted
yes i have root canals, implants, teeth, crowns, amalgams and composites. have been tested many times for heavy metals and all coinfections know to man including valley fever in case i got it from my mom. in the reality of things these things do not matter at all,unless you have a very low t cell count and have absolutely no immune system at all. the body is a remarkable creature and has the great potential to heal itself if it can. Many people with lyme disease do not have the auto-immune aspect of the disease. this is obtained only after a long chronic struggle between the body and the infectious process and released toxins. i have been tested for allergies to all metals and materials and all negative. THE REASON I CAN'T GET BETTER IS BECAUSE MY LYME WENT UNDIagnoesd for 7 years and my lyme elisa was 6.1 and almost all bands positive for western blot, plus hladr4 positive. this is a chronic long term infection, imbedded deep in my tendons ,muscles and nerves. i have had 3 root canals on good teeth because of trigeminal neuralgia, 2 surgeries on my arm for peripheral neurapathy, my iq has dropped from 175 to 129. and have torn 4 tendons ,achilles one in the last 4 years. so i doubt seriously that my body is fighting against my teeth.
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
heychroniclymie
I also went 7 years with lyme and no treatemnt. untill 95.
It is possible to get rmission. I was severly sick in all ways. It can take many years of treatment to get into remission.
Dont give up as long as their is breath in your body-there is hope.
hang in there
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Sorry chroniclymie, somehow I was very confused and calling you docdave.
So you do have root canals. They harbor bacteria and nothing can get into them to kill the bacteria because the tooth is dead. No bloodflow. So your Lyme could be taking refuge there. All the abx in the world can touch them in your teeth.
As for the metals,etc, our bodies do an amazing job of dealing with the toxins when we are well people, but too much toxic overload and our bodies can no longer deal with it all and we become chronically sick.
Sounds like this could be you.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
What I mean is the abx can NOT touch the lyme in your root canal teeth.
I was first bit by the lyme tick 10 yrs ago and treated antibiotically for 6 mths. No further thoughts of lyme until Aug 05 when it all came crashing down.
I do have lyme induced RA. I do have heavy metal toxicity and I have 3 confirmed opinions on that as well as 3 of my 5 root canals are infected and that has been confirmed by two dentists. I have confirmed systemic yeast and confirmed lyme.
Which came first? Who knows, who cares. I believe it ALL must be corrected before I can have a hope of healing. No matter how well my body handled it all before, it is no longer coping and I have no desire to demand it to cope with so many toxins just because "the body can".
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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chroniclymie
Unregistered
posted
yes this is chroniclymie aka docdave. i was booted of the site last year for speaking my mind about several issues dealing with a troll and i got the boot. don't post much since the only treatment on this website for teeth is extraction. i have no use for posting any information about teeth, since i have no knowledge of teeth according to this website,actually i have very little knowledge of anything according to some on this website. docdave DR. DAVID KLEIN ALL RESEARCH INFORMATION IS TAINTED, AND THE INFORMATION ON THE INTERENT IS EVEN MORE TAINTED. FOR THESE REASONS IT IS IMPERATIVE TO GET ALL THE INFORMATION YOU CAN FROM AS MANY SOURCES AS POSSIBLE AND THEN MAKE A DECISION.
YES ROOT CANALS CAN BE DONE PROPERLY WITHOUT GETTING REINFECTED, AND MANY EXTRACTED TEETH ON CADAVERS SHOW NO EVIDENCE OF INFECTION IN ROOT CANALS FOR 20-30 YEARS ,WITH FULL HEALING OF THE BONE OCCURING. THE RCT MUST BE DONE UNDER STERILE COINDITIONS UNDER OLD SCHOOL TECHNIQUES.
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luvs2ride
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Member # 8090
posted
Whoa Doc,
Lower the guns please. I bow to your training and expertise. Are you a dentist or an MD?
Can you share some of the research resources with us? I have obtained two opinions about my teeth. I have 5 root canals in all. 3 have been identified as infected and both dentists identified the same 3. I have two extracted wisdom teeth sites, one of which is infected and both dentists identified the same one as being infected.
Even though my teeth don't hurt and my mouth looks great infection wise, I have to believe there is something there when two opinions arrive at the same conclusion. How I wish it weren't so. I don't look forward to pulling my teeth.
A point of interest: I recently received IV dioxychlor to kill systemic yeast. I awoke the first night with a sensation (not strong enough to call pain)arising from the 3 infected canals rising into my gums. I assumed it was the dioxychlor effect on fungus and bacteria in these teeth.
Are you saying root canal teeth can NEVER be infected? If you feel they can become infected, how would you determine their infected state?
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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