Topic: Bb needs our Ca level to be high...NOT Mg levels
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
We find that the lipid biosynthesis pathway is absent from the spirochetes. This strongly limits the degree to which these organisms can metabolize NADPH. PMID: 11075910
Interpretation: looks like the keets have a hard time MAKING their own fats.
NADPH = nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate, reduced form an electron carrier
NADP is used in anabolic reactions, such as fat acid and nucleic acid synthesis, that require NADPH as a reducing agent.
The oxidation of NADPH by the mitochondrial P450 systems is not tightly coupled with substrate metabolism, as these systems can reduce O2 by a single electron to produce harmful superoxide radical.
To minimize such futile NADPH oxidation, NADPH generation may be regulated by two types of mechanisms:
1. Feedback mechanisms that maintain the ratio of NADPH/NADP+ at a steady-state level by enhancing the rate of NADPH production to keep up with its rate of oxidation, e.g., allosteric regulation of enzymes involved in NADPH production.
2. Hormonal signals that enhance the level of NADPH production in coordination with steroidogenesis.
One major hypothesis with experimental evidence is that stimulation of mitochondrial NAD(P)H synthesis is
mediated by Ca++ as a second messenger
of tropic factors. Tropic stimulation of cells increases the levels of Ca++ in the cytosol and then in the mitochondrial matrix, and
***the rise in Ca++ activates enzymes involved in NAD(P)H synthesis.***
Looks to me like Bb doesn't want Mg around...but instead wants/needs high levels of Ca to activate the enzymes enabling it to make its lipids.
"A putative calcium transporting ATPase is required for the control of HMG-CoA reductase stability."
Looks like calcium plays a part in the enzyme HMG CoA reductase which may trigger the liver to produce cholesterol.
Mg and statin/arbs drugs INactivate this enzyme. They put the breaks on EXCESS cholesterol formation. We will still get some (and most definitely need some cholesterol for all of our cells!) from our diets.
Mg:
1. INactivates PFK...an enzyme that Bb is dependent on. This puts the brakes on the glycolysis pathway. 2. INactivates HMG CoA reductase another enzyme that triggers cholesterol (lipid) production. 3. Is needed to make all proteins...enzymes, hormones, antibodies (along with Ca to make healthy antibodies). AND it is needed to make several neurotransmitters...serotonin -> melatonin which triggers antioxidant release 4. Stimulates DNA REPAIR 5. Is an anti-histamine, anti-inflammatory 6. "Competes" with Ca 7. Along with Zn...blocks NMDA (glutamate) receptors.
Mg is not our most abundant mineral, Ca is, but IMO...it is our most important (with Ca a close 2nd).
Mg is attached to ATP...our energy carrier in the powerhouses of the cells...the mitochondria. It is very abundant in our most vital organs...brain, heart, liver.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
over my head
Posts: 163 | From maine | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Do you think this is why my stretching is so long ?
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
Marnie, Let me be the first to say I luv your posts. I usually have to read the 3 times but they are very informative witha basis in biology and science not guesswork like many others
Posts: 408 | From NY | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Dani Posts: 102 | From Where there is no lyme | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Clue as to what this means...
Read slowly, over and over, until it "clicks". It will.
Bb is very unique!!! Instead of having a "sugary" outer cell wall, it has Zinc+ cholesterol = very, very acidic. This is the "toxin". Except for mycoplasms (smaller and no cell wall)...ALL other pathogens have that "sugary" outer cell wall (called an LPS layer).
When we try to destroy pathogens, we use antibiotics to destroy the cell wall OR to prevent it from forming in the first place.
Our own antibodies have to lock onto the cell walls to start to do their job...
This weakens the pathogens and then other factors kick in to "finish the job".
Bb is using our nutrients to make its outer cell wall AND our fructose (a sugar) to make its ATP...energy transporter. It is breaking down sugar -> several harmful products (ethanol is one).
Think of what damage being an alcoholic does to the brain, liver, and pancreas. Alcohol also breaks down to ethanol. Ethanol is not good. This is where Vitamin E helps.
Bb follows what is called the glycolysis pathway. This means it uses SUGAR to make ATP. It is fermenting our sugar.
WE make ATP using EITHER sugar (also called glycogen) or oxygen. If we use sugar, we only make 2 ATP...if we use oxygen, we make 30 ATP! Obviously using oxygen gives us a LOT more energy.
Bb has us stuck in the low energy production (sugar) route because it is using/controlling an enzyme called PFK. Insulin ACTIVATES this. Bb loves it if you eat sugar and subsequently your insulin kicks up. Sugar is alkaline. Insulin is acidic...the body is trying to maintain the balance of alkalines-acids. This is the pH.
Several things can INactivate PFK.
H2O2, which we make inside our cells every split second, is one of the things that is supposed to INactivate PFK, but Bb is "H2O2 resistant". It breaks it down too fast to avoid being damaged by this mild acid. H2O2 is hydrogen peroxide.
Besides the glycolysis...sugar for energy route, Bb follows the cholesterol pathway.
It is triggering our liver to overproduce cholesterol. It appears to make us dump magnesium (Mg) and then calcium (Ca)goes up and this sets in motion a whole lot of other things.
Calcium is harmful to the thyroid. Calcium is triggering an enzyme (HMG CoA) that causes the liver to release cholesterol...Ca (alkaline) triggers TNF alpha (protein, acidic)...
Bb is taking from us many nutrients...including choline, so the neurotransmitter, acetylcholine is impacted.
When just ONE nutrient is out of balance, it throws off many more as the body tries to compensate...to correct this imbalance.
And with this disease, MANY nutrients go out of balance...many drop. This becomes, very fast, a nutritional nightmare.
Bb is one mean parasite. It is feeding on us.
The problem is...we need certain nutrients as much as Bb does. Our immune system absolutely needs zinc, but this appears to be what Bb is using perhaps to lock on to the cells.
So if we take extra zinc, are we helping Bb to lock on?
See the problems?
It gets tricky....very.
Magnesium is the ONLY nutrient capable of INactivating both PFK and HMG CoA reductase...putting the brakes on both pathways simultaneously.
It is not a matter of a few loading doses of Mg (plus B vitamins) or a little bit a few times a day. The blood level must be kept constant...a little higher than normal for as many hours a day as possible.
That's why some of the LLMDs are "upping" your Mag-Tab SR...
We know from Romanian Cancer doctors, that Mg levels drop "very significantly" very fast (at the time of the rash). We know that an Italian doctor, named Valletta has a U.S. patent titled: "Magnesium for autoimmune". He used Mg pyrophosphate and sublingual (under the tongue) B6 - stomach acids destroy B6.
Unfortunately, Mg pyrophosphate is not available, so we have to sub....use something else that contains phosphorus (and choline)...
Because this pathogen is so unique, we have to approach it from another angle.
We have to SUPPORT our own immune system by utilizing Mg because it is so critical to so many things (listed above).
Catching on?
Tree...please explain...I don't understand.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
Nancy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 95
posted
Great explanation, Marnie! Thank you!
When I first took ill with Lyme, current dosages for Mag Tab SR were one twice daily. Have they been upped?
Nancy
Posts: 1487 | From New England | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
breathwork
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 567
posted
Marnie....you are a peach...plain and simple.
So we take Mg supplements joyfully....and then the OB/Gyn says I need Calcium too for my age and joints, etc...
Do you have suggestions for how to approach achieving the optimum balance of the two?
I know it's a simplistic question with a more complex answer...I'm a huge fan of Mg and how it's helped my symptoms...Love the stuff....Just wonder how I might approach the need for Ca beyond normal dietary intake....
Use all the big words you like. I can follow....
Thank you
Carol Ann
Posts: 1062 | From CA USA | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
Eleven patients with neuro-borreliosis had been treated with 200 mg fluconazole daily for 25 days after an unsuccessful therapy with antibiotics.
At the end of treatment eight patients had no borreliosis symptoms and remained free of relapse in a follow-up examination one year later. In the remaining four patients, symptoms were considerably improved.
At the end of therapy immune reactivity (IgM+) disappeared in three patients. Since borrelia spp. are almost exclusively localised intracellular, they may depend on certain metabolites of their eucaryotic host cell.
Inhibition of P450 and other cytochromes by fluconazole
Find P450 and the relationship with TRPM6 and TRPM7...and calcium and magnesium.
Page (very bottom of 5) and 6 and 11 in the above link. These channels have to do with kinases.
Cytochrome P450 is a family of the body's more powerful detox enzymes. Over 60 key forms are known, with hundreds of genetic variations possible, producing a wide variety of susceptibility to specific toxins. As the saying goes, "One man's meat is another man's poison".
---------
The data were interpreted to suggest that exogenous
lipophilic compounds can be
metabolized via cytochrome P450 proteins,
and that the resulting metabolites can bind to members of the Nuclear Receptor (NR) class of proteins and regulate gene expression.
Now...from the Harvard link above, I will post and then reverse something:
DAG (diester of glycerol and fatty acids) which ACTIVATES PKC...nestles PKC into the lipid layer to ACTIVATE it)-> arachidonic acid -> metabolically oxidized by P450.
Reversing this:
Stop P450 from being oxidized -> more arachidonic acid -> more DAG -> PKC ACTIVATED.
VERY important to note: genetic research shows Bb contains a PKC INhibitor.
Now what IF after flagyl for "X" number of days, you still have symptoms? I would suspect that the bacterial LOAD would "dictate" the dosage and # of days it would take this Rx to work...to completely eliminate this pathogen.
Get retested. IF you no longer TEST positive:
It COULD be "autoimmune". IF the levels of Mg and Zn and phosphorus and selenium, choline,vitamins A and E etc. are still low ie., have not been restored, then it IS possible, the body still thinks it is "under attack"...doesn't know what or where...so it keeps pumping out the acids...TNF alpha, etc. which further deplete the minerals, becoming a vicious cycle.
Mg is needed along with other nutrients to make ALL proteins. If Mg is low, the question is: what "shape" are the proteins in? Are they damaged, tangled, otherwise malformed?
Bottom line...ultimately the nutrients that have been depleted must be restored to regain one's health and one's ability to fight off all infections...ie., restoring your own immune system.
Ancora Imparo.
P.S. Re: calcium. It is NOT a *supplement I would take if I had lyme. Besides bone health needs Mg, Ca, P, boron, and vitamin D...NOT JUST CALCIUM! Too much calcium in relationship to the rest and your bones will become too brittle and break for no reason. This HAS happened to longstanding lyme patients.
[ 08. June 2006, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
breathwork
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 567
posted
Thanks Marnie....Makes perfect sense to me....I'll stick with my usual protocol and let my GYN worry on her own time. Good diet, good quality and balance of supplements...and keep reading...
Thank you, Carol Ann
Posts: 1062 | From CA USA | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Wait a sec...gotta go run errands...but woke up today thinking about this...
arachidonic acid
More research on the horizon.
Why can't I wake up thinking about being a lottery winner instead?! ;-)
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic