Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
According to Pubmed...melatonin causes the release of BICARBONATES in the intestine. Makes sense...become acidic during the day, need to "alkalinize" at night.
Hum...food for thought.
Bb is transported via a moist SALINE solution...apparently it LIKES sodium.
Going back to the Western Fence Lizard...after ticks feed on the lizard's blood and drop off, they no longer have any Bb in them...those lizards produce a LOT of melatonin...
Make a "Trojan Horse"? Yo, pq...email me directly...need to share a "recipe"...and research.
Naah...couldn't be THAT easy...could it? A long time ago, someone from Iowa felt much better after he...remember?
And guess what OTHER pathogen likes Na too...
Knock off 2 for the price of one?
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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henson2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 463
posted
I'm not following this. (Maybe Lyme brain!)
I've been craving salt and adding it to food. Is this bad?
Marnie, what is the combo that you refer to?
Thanks!
Posts: 1066 | From East Coast | Registered: Dec 2000
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Thanks marine
Can't follow most of it but I liked the part about the fense lizard making alot of melatonin! I'll think about the lizard tonight when I take my melatonin.
If I am following BB likes sodium? What about people taking the salt/C protocal?
Sorry. Maybe missing the boat here.
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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Carol B
Unregistered
posted
Melatonin and me don't mix.
Twice I have tried to include it in my regimin ,but I only lasted three nights both time.
I had horrible nightmares and severe depression the following days. It was scary and very dark.
And I have heard such good things about it. I may try it one more time-but not for a while.
Andie333
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7370
posted
I do take melatonin and have never had a problem with it. For me, having the time-release variety helps. Without that, I was falling asleep fairly quickly but would then wake up several hours later.
Andie
Posts: 2549 | From never never land | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I tried taking melatonin,but it didn't seem to have much effect. I might have been a little cautious on the amount, though. I don't remember that period well-- I wonder if that means something.... DaveS
Posts: 4567 | From ithaca, NY, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Melatonin MUST convert to serotonin at daylight or we get SAD...seasonal affective disorder.
Too many grey skys = melatonin stays high(ish) and not enough serotonin.
Melatonin dosage, timing, and what "brand" makes a difference. Tincup did a survey a long time ago.
As we age, we make less melatonin and the pineal gland calcifies.
We take more naps as we age (think: grandparents dozing off), but during naps, REM sleep, not NREM sleep, kicks in. NORMALLY NREM sleep preceeds REM sleep.
Many brilliant people took/take short naps.
During REM sleep we use acetylcholine. During NREM, we use melatonin.
We can NOT take the amt. of melatonin to do the job, but HOW it works is a major CLUE!
In acidosis, the cells have too much Na (sodium) and too many hydrogens IN the cells.
Sodium depletes Mg...further.
Bb looks quite content to be living INSIDE an acidic environment...with Na and H present (and likely Ca). The malarial protozoan needs Ca.
Okay...how do we get rid of so many hydrogens, get the Na and Ca out of the cells and Mg back in so it can lock onto ATP as Mg-ATP?
We look to need bicarbonates, but which one? Think.
Side note: the 3mg of TIMED RELEASE melatonin by Source Naturals helps me without any wild-type of dreams.
During the night we go back and forth between NREM (melatonin) and REM (acetylcholine) sleep.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
I researched melatonin last year and wrote an article. Including it below for anyone interested.
Melatonin is a hormone manufactured from serotonin and secreted by the pineal gland. Melatonin regulates the human biological clock. The human biological clock (circadian rhythm) signals the secretion of various hormones at certain times in order to regulate body functions.
Many melatonin receptors are found in the body, which explains its multiple functions as biological rhythms resynchronisation, sleep induction, regulation of the blood vessels and even the ability to alter the function of the immune system. It is known to be helpful with insomnia and jet lag. It may also be useful in Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD).
Melatonin may be very useful in sleep disorders, associated with circadian rhythm disturbances.6
Melatonin naturally decreases with age. Light affects melatonin production and as night approaches, melatonin production increases, initiating sleep. Bright light can acutely suppress human melatonin production.
Circadian Rhythms The circadian rhythm is the name given to 24 hour physiological cycles in plants and animals. Some physiological functions that are linked to this 24 hour cycle are sleeping, eating, brain wave activity, hormone production and cell regeneration.
Melatonin acts to reinforce the functioning of the human circadian rhythm. It can induce sleepiness and lower core body temperature as well as change the timing of rhythms. It can change rhythms and maintain those changes in most blind and some sighted people. It has been proven to be a successful treatment for circadian rhythm disorders, particularly the non-24-h sleep wake disorder of the blind.12
Insomnia Adults with insomnia may have lower levels of melatonin.5. Many studies have shown that melatonin is useful in helping those with insomnia. Melatonin has no sedative effect for sleep if a person's melatonin levels are normal.10,11 Some medical practitioners have voiced concern that if you are not deficient and you take melatonin, you could cause your body to stop making it's own melatonin. For this reason, you may want to consider getting a home test before taking melatonin.
Melatonin is often helpful for insomnia in the elderly because melatonin is deficient in a large number of elderly insomniacs. 13 Melatonin is said to decrease with age. Vitamin B12 affects melatonin secretion.14 It's possible that the low levels of melatonin in the elderly may be related to their Vitamin B12 status.
Jet Lag A review of 10 medical studies concluded that melatonin is very effective in reducing or eliminating the effects of jet lag.4
Night time shift workers Shift workers may benefit from melatonin for resynchronization of their sleep schedules.6
Diabetes and blood sugar effects The role of melatonin in human insulin regulation is poorly understood however one animal study determined that melatonin caused a rise in blood sugars. The ability of melatonin to stimulate insulin output was dose dependent. Higher doses of melatonin caused a significant rise in blood sugars whereas lower levels caused no change. 2
One study found that giving diabetic patients melatonin supplementation may have some benefit in controlling diabetic complications.1
Another animal study reported that long-term melatonin administration reduces high blood sugar and may help insulin resistance.3
Melatonin and Cancer Circadian cycle of melatonin is closely related to immune functions and its disturbance seems to induce a significant increase of cancer incidence.8
Melatonin and Hair growth Alternative Medicine Review: Melatonin increases anagen hair rate in women with androgenetic alopecia or diffuse alopecia: results of a pilot randomized controlled trial
Dosage: Many alternative health care practioner's recommend between 1-3 mg at night-time.
Side Effects: There are few side effects with melatonin however some people have reported morning grogginess, undesired drowsiness, sleepwalking and disorientation.
Case reports suggest that people with epilepsy, and patients taking warfarin may come to harm from melatonin. 4
It has been hypothesized that melatonin should not be taken by nursing or pregnant women, individuals with depression or schizophrenia, and those with autoimmune disease, including lupus.7
Warnings: Before taking any supplements, consult with your health care provider. This information is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.
References 1. Paskaloglu K, Sener G, Ayangolu-Dulger G., "Melatonin treatment protects against diabetes-induced functional and biochemical changes in rat aorta and corpus cavernosum.", Eur J Pharmacol. 2004 Sep 24;499(3):345-54. Entrez PubMed
2. Fabis M, Pruszynska E, Mackowiak P., "In vivo and in situ action of melatonin on insulin secretion and some metabolic implications in the rat.", Pancreas. 2002 Aug;25(2):166-9. Entrez PubMed
3. Nishida S, Segawa T, Murai I, Nakagawa S., "Long-term melatonin administration reduces hyperinsulinemia and improves the altered fatty-acid compositions in type 2 diabetic rats via the restoration of Delta-5 desaturase activity.", J Pineal Res. 2002 Jan;32(1):26-33. Entrez PubMed
4. Herxheimer A, Petrie KJ., "Melatonin for the prevention and treatment of jet lag.", Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2002;(2):CD001520. Entrez PubMed
5. Attenburrow ME, Dowling BA, Sharpley AL, Cowen PJ., "Case-control study of evening melatonin concentration in primary insomnia.", BMJ. 1996 May 18;312(7041):1263-4. Entrez PubMed Case-control study of evening melatonin concentration in primary insomnia -- Attenburrow et al. 312 (7041): 1263 -- BMJ
6. Folkard S, Arendt J, Clark M., "Can melatonin improve shift workers' tolerance of the night shift?" , .Chronobiol Int. 1993 Oct;10(5):315-20. Entrez PubMed
7. Skye Lininger, D.C., Editor in Chief, Jonathan Wright, M.D., Steve Austin, N.D., Donald Brown, N.D. and Alan Gaby, M.D. "The Natural Pharmacy"
8. Kwiatkowski F, Abrial C, Gachon F, Chevrier R, Cure H, Chollet P., "[Stress, cancer and circadian rhythm of melatonin.]", Pathol Biol (Paris). 2005 Jun;53(5):269-72. Epub 2005 Jan 20. Entrez PubMed
9. Lewy AJ, Sack RL, Singer CM., "Melatonin, light and chronobiological disorders", Ciba Found Symp. 1985;117:231-52. Entrez PubMed
10. Michael Murray, N.D., and Joseph Pizzorno, N.D., "The Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine".
13. Haimov I., "Melatonin rhythm abnormalities and sleep disorders in the elderly", .CNS Spectr. 2001 Jun;6(6):502-6. Entrez PubMed
14. Honma K, Kohsaka M, Fukuda N, Morita N, Honma S. "Effects of vitamin B12 on plasma melatonin rhythm in humans: increased light sensitivity phase-advances the circadian clock?", Experientia. 1992 Aug 15;48(8):716-20. Entrez PubMed
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
AGGGGGGGGGGGh...research!
I found melatonin HELPS with epilepsy.
Seizures ARE triggered by a calcium influx and a Na problem as well...Depakote WORKS by keeping more Na around...Na is more "reactive" than Ca. K is more "reactive" than Na...
Do you want a lot of additional melatonin files?
I am not advocating "DAILY" use of this hormone. Look at HOW it is working. WHAT IT IS DOING. THIS is what needs to be happening.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Carol B: Melatonin and me don't mix.
Twice I have tried to include it in my regimin ,but I only lasted three nights both time.
I had horrible nightmares and severe depression the following days. It was scary and very dark.
And I have heard such good things about it. I may try it one more time-but not for a while.
Carol
I had the same experience except for the depression. I had horrible nightmares too. Not like a normal nightmare. I felt like I was being tossed from one nightmare into the next nightmare and it lasted all night.
My husband takes Melatonin and it works well for him. He can be sleeping in 10 minutes after he takes it.
-------------------- Peggy
~ ~ Hope is a powerful medicine. ~ ~ Posts: 2775 | From MN | Registered: Apr 2001
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Seems like B12 is important in conjunction with melatonin not just because it helps with secretion of melatonin but I haven't looked at that carefully. Maybe some who don't get benefit from melatonin need to add b12?? OTOH - I think it was mentioned in one of those studies that melatonin will only be helpful for insomnia if one is actually deficient in melatonin.
As far as epilipsy, the info was not related to a study, just case reports. I included that info because I try to include anything that I find that might be a problem, just so that we can be aware of potential dangers.
Marnie, I would love your files on melatonin. Let me know what to do to get them please and thank you for offering. When I conducted my research into melatonin I didn't know that I had lyme so I'm very interested in any connections between lyme and melatonin and will look for some over the next week and gladly share them if I find any.
posted
"Naah...couldn't be THAT easy...could it? A long time ago, someone from Iowa felt much better after he...remember?"
You might reach more people with your research and information (if that is your goal) if you made your statement more directly, instead of in some kind of code or clever tease.
Posts: 204 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
ibrakeforticks ...reread the first sentence in my first post here.
Now...
"Electrolytes with a positive charge include sodium, potassium, calcium, and magnesium;
the negative ions are chloride, bicarbonate, and phosphate."
If Bb is utilizing OUR phosphorus which is the MAIN component of ATP (energy carrier)...
and...
Phosphates are the naturally occurring form of the element phosphorus...
What if we "up" the bicarbonates...THOSE "negative ions" ? Attached to which "positive ion"?
Mg pyrophosphate or Mg bicarbonate?
Dangerous????!!!! I wish I knew...which is why I am very cautious. Trying hard to not CAUSE harm.
Thinking, learning...is "exercising" the mind. We actually MAKE more neuroreceptors when we learn. This helps prevent Alzheimers. Exercising our mind is as important as exercising our bodies. So hard as it is to do either...keep trying.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I'm adding my two cents on the nightmare issue.
Melatonin does increase nightmares and really disturbing dreams. I've taken it for a while now and the dreams don't come as often now.
The first couple of times I had those dreams I was quite shaken up and it seemed like I couldn't get out of dream.
I continue to take it because it also does help me sleep and it does seem to agree with me otherwise. Posts: 460 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2005
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