posted
10 days ago we went to a state park in Central Oregon. Nice, rainy day. Let Kaitlyn (almost 20 months) play in the river and walk along the bank for a while.
Mosquitoes were out in full force, and by that night (or perhaps the next morning) she had several (8?) little red bumps on her arms and legs, with one on her face. We assumed it was mosquito bites.
Within 5 or 6 days, a few of them started to develop a thin ring around them. Some faded a few days later, but others have popped up and a couple have rings that are actively growing.
Again...the ring is thin. In the middle of most is a little scab. When you press on them, they turn white for a second (which is what my skin is like on a regular basis).
She has no other symptoms. We never found any sort of tick, although we never thought to look.
At the one week mark we went to our regular doctor. She said to try some hydrocortizone cream and benadryl, figuring it was just an allergic reaction. No changes (although, as mentioned above, some dots have diappeared and others have appeared).
Went to doctor again today. He is very hesitant to diagnose Lyme as she has no other symptoms, no single large bullseye (the largest one is perhaps a nickel in size, although it is becoming oblong and overlapping another one). We got blood drawn, but I know full well that it will probably mean nothing. He's going to try to get us in to a dermatologist to rule out any skin problems on Monday. In the meantime, we sit and wait.
For the most part, she is fine...acting silly, eating, bm, peeing like normal. We can have lyme and not get the "flu like symptoms" right away...right? What harm would it do to stick her on the amox. for 20 days (or is it more than that)--are there any long term negative side effects from that much amox?
Help? I don't want to screw up the rest of her life from this, yet I'm not sure what magic words I can say to the doctor to get her on that amox!
Posts: 2 | From Redmond, Oregon | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
I don't know....if it were MY kid, I'd sure want to be cautious. If you do get her on amoxy...be SURE to give her acidophilus two hrs before or after the amoxy.
I don't know if they have acidph for kids or not. You could probably open a capsule and put it in pudding.
Go here and look for the links on rashes. See what you can find.
Others may be along soon to help you. I don't have children.
posted
Welcome to LymeNet. So sorry your little girl is having this problem.
I'm not a dr, but my advice would be to err on the side of caution rather than ignore a possible problem.
Very Important - Take pictures of the rings with a coin or ruler to show the size. Some recommend with the daily newspaper to show the size of the rash & the date the picture was taken. As the rings change, continue taking pictures. Keep these pictures in your home file forever!
If there's ever a question about the rings, you will have a record of them.
The rings do not sound like the typical bull's eye rash (EM - erythema migrans) but many of the Lyme rashes are atypical. Erythema migrans means moving rash because the rings typically can move outward and get larger.
A friend had a nickle size rash & it was Lyme. Some drs have a minimum size in mind for it to be LD. Mine was oval - about 1 1/2" x 2" and I had no other symptoms for 10 years, which could have been because of short attachment time (maximum of 4-6 hrs).
I don't have a reference for you to read, but I've heard that Lyme bacteria can be carried by mosquitoes, flies, & ticks. I'm not aware of any studies that have proven mosquitoes & flies can TRANSMIT the bacteria to people, but some think it's possible.
Last section - page 32-33: read "Rationale for treating tick bite"
pages 17: Antibiotic Choices & Doses Recommended dose of Amoxicillin for Children: 50 mg/kg/day divided into q8h doses means a 35 lb child would take a total of about 800 mg per day
pages 19: Treatment Categories Early Localized - single erythema migrans with no symptoms Children: oral therapy for 6 weeks
Do you think your dr would be willing to consult by phone with a Lyme Pediatrician to get his opinion about the possibility of Lyme?
Posts: 4638 | From South Carolina | Registered: Mar 2001
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-------------------- Charter member of the ~ Delux Toasting Club ~ Our Moto: "Take No Prisoners" Posts: 95 | From San Diego | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Back to the top for more suggestions & opinions.
Posts: 4638 | From South Carolina | Registered: Mar 2001
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
My chigger bites (?) developed small nickel size bulleyes back in summer 99. Three weeks later the flu from he*& came on. I'm sorry you have to worry about your 20 month old.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
All three of my children have lyme. I urge you to get some antibiotics for your daughter because this is a disease you don't want to mess with. Symptoms for her could come out tomorrow or ten years from now. The blood test you did for your daughter may not show anything either since it takes a few weeks to make antibodies.
My oldest son had a tick on him 5 years ago in his groin area. He never got a bullseye but was diagnosed with a strange pnuemonia a few weeks later (and it came out of no where). He was fine and then bam suddenly he has pneumonia? After that he had asthma, allergies, crabbiness, light sensitivity, stomach issues, etc. Got him tested only by PCR and never showed anything. Should have used Igenex.
Meanwhile, my husband and I were finally diagnosed with Bart and Lyme after years of not feeling well. The more I went to support groups and the more I read the more I was amazed.
My oldest son then got bit again 2 years ago and got a strange faint oblong rash in different parts on his back. The doctor put him on antibiotics for 5 weeks. Months later he started having forgetfulness problems, stomach issues, crabbiness, constipation, headaches, etc. I finally called a prominent pediatric lyme doc and got Igenex kits ordered.
I ordered the kits for my younger son too because he exhibited symtpoms and I always wondered if I had the lyme when I was pregnant or breastfed. Both boys tests came back positive. Along with the lyme, one also had Babesia and the other also had Mycoplasma. They are still in treatment.
To make matters worse, our family was up at Martha's Vineyard last year. At the end of the trip my adopted daughter (who I thought I could protect) got very sick at the end of the trip. She had a high fever, was vomiting, coughing, head and leg pain, etc. I never saw a rash so at first I thought she just picked up a virus.
Well, 4 days after we got home a strange rash appeared all over her front and back torso. My regular pediatrician called it viral (typical). I had the tests ordered through Igenex and the Bart and Lyme came up a few weeks later. She suffered sleep issues, severe crabbiness, head pains, etc. It was just a nightmare. She has been on meds since the fall and it doing so much better but still has some ways to go.
Here I thought I knew everything about the disease and waited just a few weeks to get treatment for her. In that time I know the disease spread. I wished I did something sooner.
I don't want to scare you but I would play it safe. Don't wait for the symptoms to come. Talk to a knowledgable doctor and get treatment for her. The lyme is so prevalent now everywhere. Through my experiences I don't think you have to have a rash, I don't think you have to see the tick, etc. to get it. In your case you do have some sort of rash. There are many typical bullseye rashes (my husbdan's was very faint) but to be honest I've learned it can take the form of many different rashes especially if the Bartonella is involved.
Best wishes and PM me if you need any other info. I hope some other Moms will step up and tell their stories to you.
Posts: 238 | From Bethlehem, PA | Registered: Oct 2004
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cactus
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7347
posted
You're right to be concerned. I would be too.
As a tick-phobic parent of a 2 yr old, I've asked my LLMD what to do if we find a tick, or suspect a bite.
If you had a tick, you could send it to Igenex for testing (better lab than the local health dept), but you don't have the little guy, so just remember that for future reference...
In lieu of that, I would absolutely photograph every rash (the newspaper and ruler is a good idea), and I would watch her development very carefully, documenting any behavioral changes, etc. There may be specific symptoms to watch for in toddlers, although I don't know offhand.
Also, if you don't already, ask your doctor for a copy of every lab report, every test result (even the "normal"ones), and keep this in your file as well.
It's likely too early for anything to show up in her bloodwork, but you could wait a while and have her re-tested with a Western Blot. Ask your doctor which lab he'll be using, and ask that he use the one you want for tick borne illness testing (Igenex is good).
If there is an LLMD in your area, an appt to be evaluated might be a good back up plan. If there is a waiting list, you could ask your regular doctor to work with the LLMD in the meantime, or, if she's showing no symptoms, wait and watch.
I think in adults, many feel that 20 days abx would not be effective, that it would require 4 - 6 weeks at an appropriate dose. I would have a difficult time convincing our local pediatrician to Rx that, don't know about yours.
Maybe someone will come along who knows more about pediatric Lyme...
Healthy wishes to your little daughter, Cactus
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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