Topic: Could someone please describe the sweats you get with Babesia and/or Bartonella?
ConnieMc
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 191
posted
I tested positive on the FISH for Babs but have never tested positive for Bartonella. I have been plagued with severe flash-like episodes of sweats. I thought they were menopause hot flashes, but hormones have done no good at all. They did not change a bit, which was quite a surprise.
These flash sweats can be so severe sometimes I actually throw up. It starts with a warm feeling, progresses to a drenching sweat, then progresses into chills. They will last anywhere from a few minutes to 15 minutes. Some days I am in a sweat all day. Some days I will have 15 to 20 of these flashes a day. The sweats bring on a severe bout of fatigue, and this seems to be getting worse.
The fact that bioidentical hormones have had no effect makes me think I was wrong about the origin.
I am due to start a protocol on Mon which should cover Lyme, Babs and Bartonella. Ketek, Septra, and Mepron 5 days a week for 3 weeks and add some Flagly the 3rd week. It has been quite a while since I have taken a long course of antibiotics. For about 12 months, I have been taking a combo one week a month for 3 days, MWF.
But over the past month or so, have been deteriorating somewhat and initially thought it was hormones due to menopause and s/p breast cancer. I had to stop HRT abruptly, which threw me into a tizzy.
Do any of you with Babs or Bart have the flash type sweats like I described above?
Posts: 2276 | From NC | Registered: Oct 2000
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liz28
Unregistered
posted
I had a relapsing fever over a constant lowgrade fever, seizures in my hands and arms, bright red facial flushing, vertigo and dizzyness. These symptoms matched the classic description of malaria so closely, it may be the real diagnosis.
Whatever it was, mepron didn't work on it. There was a reduction in symptoms and a little remission here and there, but I also kept relapsing, and eventually developed resistance.
So far, I've been symptom-free one month after three months of primaquine and three short courses of chloroquine. The overdose thresholds on both of these are low, so it's a good idea to do lots of research if you choose to explore them as a treatment option.
The bartonella was completely different. Thy symptoms were swollen neck glands, a splitting headache, a fiery temper, and shin splints. That went away with five months of rifampin, ketek, and vinpocetine/vicamin.
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kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797
posted
You should still stay on the bioidentical hormones. Your body is under tremendous stress, and progesterone is the first hormone to be used up.
My daughter is 18 and has been using bioidentical progesterone for several years since coming down sick. She would have terrible PMS otherwise. And I believe it helps with a host of other problems. Progesterone sheaths the nerves, it's great for a LOT of things.
She has only tested positive for bartonella, and she walks around the house with paper towels under her arms. She says she flip flops all night between sweats and chills. Her body temp at last exam was 96.
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Well hey there.. long time no see! Sorry to hear you are feeling so rotten.
I have been busting my brain to try and help someone who called me today with the same symptoms and description you have posted here. Almost word for word!
And the bad news is.. I couldn't put my finger on something to help. Hormones don't seem to make any improvement in their condition either.. and the symptoms they have are quite severe.
My thought originally was perhaps they were re-exposed at some point earlier this year.. but they can't remember a bite. I still lean strongly towards that thought though.
As for the description you gave... it sounds to me like Babesiosis.. an early exposure.. not necessarily a chronic or long-term one. And that is totally a guess. I had 10 tick borne diseases that have been identified so far... and at some points I have been so sick I don't remember exactly what was what.
But I do remember being in bed day in and day out (extreme fatigue) with drenching sweats that started just as you described.. and then I got icy chills afterward. And I remember thinking if I had eaten.. I would have lost my lunch. But was that Babesiosis.. or one or more of the nine other infections.. or a combo???
Because of the sweats I get with Babesiosis now... I tend to lean towards Babesiosis as to what was causing the problems long ago for me.
It sounds like a good plan to try to address all the possibilities. Sounds like a strong regimen too. You are a tuff one.. for sure.
I doubt my rambling has helped.. but I thought I would toss in a few thoughts.. with wishes from the heart that you feel better soon!
And can you keep us informed as to how you are doing? We do care... and perhaps an update on your progress will help someone else down the road.
posted
I guess I'm a little confused... you said you tested positive for Babs on the FSH test. That's pretty conclusive considering you also have Babs symptoms.
It seems like an obvious course would be to treat for what you know (or highly suspect) you have and then evaluate your condition.
If you still have unresolved issues you can then look for further options.
Posts: 175 | From ma. | Registered: Aug 2005
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ConnieMc
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 191
posted
Thanks for the comments. All make sense.
I tested positive for Babs several years ago. I went through several courses of treatment and symptoms went completely away, for the most part. For the past 2 years, I have been doing quite well and had hoped I was to the point where I was succesfully managing the diseases.
Then in January, I was diagnosed with stage 1 breast cancer and had a lumpectomy and radiation. Doctors also advised me to go off HRT. I was not taking bioidentical hormones at the time. The sweats worsened after this and logically I attributed the severe flashes to that. But now I am not so sure.
Fo course, to be sure, it is logical that the stress of surgery, radiation, etc could put me under enough stress to cause a relapse of Lyme and Babs, the 2 infections I am sure I have. But with the correlation of going off HRT and the increase in symptoms, I was sure it was the menopause.
I certainly did not want to go on the hard core drugs for one thing, then find out it isn't that. But from past experience, if it is Babs, in the past, I always responded to medications very quickly.
On top of all that, I just had testing for heavy metals, and am awaiting results. For a couple of days after the chelation, I felt like a million bucks, then symptoms and sweats returned 2 days later.
So it is all quite a puzzle and hope the pieces will fall together soon.
Posts: 2276 | From NC | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I always hate to say this, but it's reassuring that some one else is going through the same thing as me... Sorry.
I was on Primaxin/Clindamycin/Flagyl for 2 months, and just added Mepron and Zith 2 weeks ago. I have been having the worst time, and have actually had to stop all drugs while my body figures things out.
The zith has been replaced with Ketek, but I have yet to try it, as the Mepron's left me supre-dehydrated, and the Zith made me lose hearing in one ear.
These sweats are the worst. Can't figure out wether I'm coming or going these days, and I average about 20 hours of sleep/daily, combined with 4 hours of lethargically laying on the couch, promising I'll get up in a few minutes to do what needs to be done.
I've stripped myself of all my jewelry, it's way too much of a skin irritant, and am ready to shave my head bald, as I am losing hair in record amounts.
This bites, but I guess artemisinin is supposed to help a lot. I just can't find it in the store, or remember to order it.
-------------------- Sometimes when I say �Oh, I�m fine� I want someone to look me in the eyes & say �tell the truth�
Sure sounds like Babesia to me. Hubby's sweats are not quite as bad as yours, but the nausea and vomiting are worse. Could check for elevated Bilirubin -- this is a marker for hubby. Goes back to normal when he treats babs and nausea improves as well.
Don't think just 3 weeks of babs treatment will do much good. Hubby had to stop after 45 days recently due to G.I. issues and babs symptoms including seizure-like episodes came back within a few days. Have a phone consult Monday with an LLMD Gastroenterologist so hope to get him back on track.
Good luck.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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robi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5547
posted
Hey Connie ....... damn I am sorry your down ....... I wish I could help with the info part here but as you know I struggle with the same issue..... babesia or menopause??? I stil don't know.
I just wanted to lend a supportive voice. I hope you figure out what is going on and knock it out quickly. One thing I can say is that when old symptoms flare the flare can be intense but the duration is less.
Gimme a shout if you'd like. I am here .........
robi
-------------------- Now, since I put reality on the back burner, my days are jam-packed and fun-filled. ..........lily tomlin as 'trudy' Posts: 2503 | From here | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Hi Connie: I also have babesia. It can be brutal at times. I get the night sweats in the middle of the night. Drenching sweats to the point I have to get up and change my pj's. Otherwise, I then get chilled and uncomfortable from being drenched. Right now, am on biaxin and mepron. Sweats are subsiding a little. Have a strong day! Hope that you feel better!
Posts: 719 | From Delaware | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Connie, you described these symptoms very well. I have had the same thing. The strange bouts of sweating, not necessarily night sweats, and shaking chills were my two main symptoms. They have resolved some after 3.5 months on mepron but I am temp stopping the mepron bcs it is too hard on my GI system. Besides, even tho it is in Dr. Bs guidelines, many people here have had mixed experiences with it and also relapse. I agree with someone else who noted your protocol was very tuff ... a lot at one time.
It is odd how the tx can cause these strange dark depressions or crying binges isnt it.
-------------------- Jeff Posts: 533 | From CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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ConnieMc
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 191
posted
Well, it is good info to know that the Babs sweats can be like this. Previously with Babs sweating, it was just like I did lots of sweating, but not like now where I have these pretty severe flash-like episodes. I can tell one is coming on. Then it goes through a process where I get drenched in sweat then progress to chills. Throughout this, I get fatigued. It can be so sudden that I have to sit down and just wait until it passes. When there are many in a day, it becomes very disrupting.
Each time I have had to take Mepron, I have responded very rapidly to it. Within a week. So time will tell.
Perhaps it is a combination of factors. I was sure it was menopause because of the onset once HRT was discontinued.
Posts: 2276 | From NC | Registered: Oct 2000
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I have almost the exact same situation with the sweats/hot flashes, feeling of nausea (never really threw up) then the chills.
Because I'm 49 it has complicated this further because I too, thought it was menopause. Did all the hormone testing but do feel better on the bio identical hormones. They didn't stop the hot flashes though.
My LLMD thinks it is babs. When I aggressively treat it clinda/quinine, etc. it does go away for a while. Soon as I stop treatment, it comes right back.
Now, I'm on artemesia only because of high liver enzymes. The LLMD pulled me off of everything. I was freaking out because I couldn't imagine being off all babs medications but the artemesia is holding it at bay.
I'm at a loss too because all day long I change shirts, kick my AC on and off, grab blankets to cover up with and then I'm fanning myself like I just crossed the desert.
It sucks. Still looking for answers too.
Posts: 460 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2005
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ConnieMc
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 191
posted
Well, to follow-up on this, it still remains a puzzle. I have completed 5 days of Babs treatment and am on a 2 day break. In the past I always responded to Babs treatment starting immediately. But not this time. Still on the bioidentical progesterone and no change.
Wondering ... can high amounts of heavy metals, specifically high lead and mercury, cause or contribute to any of this? I tested 3 times the upper expected limit per the reference population and mercury was twice the upper expected limit.
It is a mystery to me why for 2 days after chelation I had no sweats at all. And felt great. The PA did mention that one of the things I was given at the time of chelation was a very potent antioxidant which could account for my immediate improvement then decline back to baseline.
Still waiting to get this puzzle solved.
Any suggestions? Would certainly be nice to know if chelation will be the way to go before I spend (or waste) all that money.
Posts: 2276 | From NC | Registered: Oct 2000
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Did you happen to mention if you are using artemisinin also?
My understanding is that if you use any antioxidant w/ the art it may theoretically reduce it's effects.
You mentioned in your last post you took a powerful antioxidant at the time of chelation.
Stella Marie
-------------------- Stella Marie Posts: 694 | From US | Registered: Apr 2005
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ConnieMc
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 191
posted
At the time of the chelation, I wasn't on anything. In fact, I was told to d/c all supplements for 2 days before testing. I didn't start the treatment protocol until about 2 weeks after chelation.
I do know not to take certain antioxidants with art and Mepron. I know CoQ10 especially should be avoided. During treatment I restrict myself to just good quality vitamin supplements well away from the drug doses.
posted
Your post made me think of the recommendation that Buhner makes in his book for shaking chills/sweats/fever. He recommends drinking tea made from an herb called boneset (Eupatorium perfoliatum).
He also recommends artemisinin and red root tincture to complete the babesia treatment regimen. You should try to get the book from the library if you can. It is very thoroughly researched and well written.
-------------------- Getting older is when we would rather not have a good time than have to get over it. - Oscar Wilde Posts: 386 | From Radnor, PA - where the ticks run free | Registered: May 2006
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groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304
posted
Hi Connie
Babs makes most folks have Really bad night sweats (drenching) I sleep in a shirt and it would be so soaked
I could almost ring it out in the morning-
But Babs makes you sweat More all the time also-
Try drinking Tonic water and see what happens- sure helps me--Jay--
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
For what it's worth.......
I tested neg for Babs and have not been tested for Bart. I've had the most awful, drenching night sweats for years....
In May, I had a "live blood analysis" done where you look at your blood under a microscope (actually on a video screen) and see what's going on in there. I had obvious parasites in my blood.
It was recommended that I take Oil of Oregano gelcaps for 2 weeks, 1 cap twice a day.
I have not had a major night sweat since I finished the Oregano!
So now I wonder if the night sweats all these years were actually from parasites?
This may be just a coincidence but it might be worth a try.... the Oil of Oregano they sold me at the store was a really wimpy dose, too - like only 150 mg. per cap, I think. I think Solary was the brand name. Very common brand.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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